“I’ll come to your place when SHTF” – no... you won’t

[scrubber3]

The comparison of the US and Rome is moot considering modern advances and world population. Ever wonder what would happen if EBT and snap were to stop? What about the price of gas hitting over $6 a gallon? Do you know what a stock market bubble is? (Our economy is riding on bubbles right now btw)

Who's to say that the US government failing will be what causes a SHTF scenario? Local governments won't matter when money is useless or fuel is unavailable.

The world has gotten so dependent on other people and conveniences..... Kreutz, for your sake and the sake of everyone else with a mindset like yours, I hope our way of life doesn't change. Just keep in mind that our way of life is actually very fragile and dependent upon way too many things to actually sustain itself in the long run.

I'm acutely aware of how fragile the interdependency of modern civilization is, I just do not foresee it breaking down in the next two or three lifetimes. And yes I hope I'm right. I'd plan for being wrong, in reality it's all moot; I live in the suburbs and couldn't possibly grow or gather enough food to feed myself let alone six and a few bags of rice or beans would just stave off the inevitable for a few days.

Kreutz, brother, it doesn't take much..... Canned goods, rice, and some other long lasting food supplies as well as a large supply of water is better than nothing. Matter of fact, 90 days worth of provisions would give you a huge increase in you and your family's chance of survival. Six people X90 days worth of provisions is doable in a suburb. It doesn't take much money or time.

This is my extra provisions in my 2 pantries. Over 400 MREs, several gallons of water in thick plastic containers, some various canned goods and rice. Not counting what I have under the house which almost triples what you see here to include 3 50 gallon drums full of potable water. I also have 2 wood burning stoves, 30 extra gallons of gas, lots of various oils, and replacement car parts I may need. I also have 3 more barrels and a large liquid container to use when it rains to catch water off of the roof from the gutters.

I live in a semi suburban area located in the country. I also have 3 contingency plans depending on the situation. Only one involves having to count on others. Just what I have would sustain a family of six for at least 120 days if not more. As it stands, I've got myself and one possible other person to cover and plenty of squirrels and rabbits in the yard for some fresh meat. If I'm solo, I would be good for well over a year on just what I have within 20 ft of me.

I'm not going into anymore detail or anymore pictures, but please understand that your situation does not preclude you from being able to prepare for at least 30 days worth of an emergency disaster. It doesn't take much and getting $10-$20 worth at the grocery store each time you go adds up quickly. You could easily have a years worth of provisions for you and your family.

[Remek]

^^^ I agree with this. Its cheap to buy rice and beans, and canned food. Water is free, if you gather it, and real cheap if you use RO water from the store (for the steam iron). Within a few months, with some careful planning, you can put yourself in a great position to make a fairly long storm easier to weather. Remember too, you don't necessarily have to be 100% self-sufficient, but simply making it easier to avoid pay overly high prices for everything can help you not kill yourself trying to feed yourself and family.

One more thing, which I haven't seen mentioned here. I'd buy a pellet gun. A .22 caliber subsonic. Some of them are almost silent, and you can down that squirrel or whatever in your backyard and no one knows. Puts you in position to have fresh meet if SHTF, even living in a suburban neighborhood.

[Snakester]

All I can say Scrubber is Looks like you have a fine start and have a good idea of adding to your stock pile each time you grocery shop ! My wife and I do exactly the same ...In 2 years it is unbelievable how FAST the stock pile grows. I can't believe more people don't "prep" !

[scrubber3]

Totally agree with having a good pellet gun. Though mine is a .177 it still does the job okay since it shoots at 1100 fps and 1250 with supersonic ammo. Ive got about 3000 pellets hanging out with my ammo storage thats in another closet. we wont go into how much ammo i actually have, but its more than enough. (im not that guy that thinks 400 rounds of WWB is being ready for he apocalypse either, I'm not that nieve) I found that subsonic .22lr does nice as far as avoiding attention.

[Remek]

^^^ The reason I suggest .22 pellets is to avoid supersonic. It's really a matter of preference though, as either caliber can do the job, and once you find the right round, they all become nail drivers. For me, I prefer to be as silent as possible.

While I do not let paranoia rule my life, I figure if you are in a situation where food may be very valuable, its best [for me] not to let anyone know I just got some.

[scrubber3]

^^^ The reason I suggest .22 pellets is to avoid supersonic. It's really a matter of preference though, as either caliber can do the job, and once you find the right round, they all become nail drivers. For me, I prefer to be as silent as possible.

While I do not let paranoia rule my life, I figure if you are in a situation where food may be very valuable, its best [for me] not to let anyone know I just got some.

Very good points. I may invest in a .22 airgun soon. More energy in a subsonic shot makes perfect sense. I initially went with .177 due to availability, but I've recently found more .22 pellets so this Idea is more appealing now.

[Snakester]

I went with the .177 when I bought my Steoger last year. It works GREAT on the squirrel population around the house and is very quiet. I also shoot it a lot in my buddy's basement. We also found about 25,000 - .177 rds. in a storage unit we bought at an auction a couple years ago......So we have really been shooting them a Lot ! I've been looking at an air rifle for my wife and am pretty sure to go with .22 this time.

[Remek]

I don't want to get too far off topic, but has anyone considered feeding the squirrels and rabbits in your yard? I have a wooded area out back, and have fiddled with the idea of throwing the old/compost-able material out back. (I have two kids that never finish their plates, and leave fruit and veggies on the plate all the time.)

I see two possible pitfalls: (i) attracting too many venomous animals; and (ii) if SHTF, the squirrels might pack up and leave quickly if there is not enough garbage going out to feed them.

Thoughts, comments, experiences?

[SHMIV]

I've been trying to convince GF that not all airguns are comparable to the Daisy Red Ryder. I think that they are plenty worthwhile to own.

This talk of squirrel and backyard urban hunting makes me wonder if it may be wise to feed and encourage squirrel populations.

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[dorminWS]

Beans and bullets are OK, I guess, but the man who will be in a position to rule the post-Barackalypse world will be the guy who owns and can defend a heavily-fortified WalMart-sized warehouse full of dry toilet paper.

[dorminWS]

I don't want to get too far off topic, but has anyone considered feeding the squirrels and rabbits in your yard? I have a wooded area out back, and have fiddled with the idea of throwing the old/compost-able material out back. (I have two kids that never finish their plates, and leave fruit and veggies on the plate all the time.)

I see two possible pitfalls: (i) attracting too many venomous animals; and (ii) if SHTF, the squirrels might pack up and leave quickly if there is not enough garbage going out to feed them.

Thoughts, comments, experiences?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

One year when I was in school in Charlottesville I lived in a duplex that backed up to a small wooded strip that bordered a school property. I started feeding the squirrels that would occasionally venture out of the woods onto my little deck. First thing you know, I had lots of the cussed things lining up to snatch peanuts out of my hands. They chewed my telephone service cables in two, and cost me a screen for my sliding glass door to the deck because they chased each other around in vertical circles on it (trying, I guess, to get to the peanuts - not sure if it was mine or each others') and ripped it to shreds. Landlord flat didn't believe squirrels tore down my screen door. He also said I had no damn business feeding the squirrels to begin with. Guess he just didn't like squirrels - OR college student, for that matter.

Point is, they can be pests and cause some damage and aggravation. I also would NEVER eat a squirrel that had lived in an urban environment (particularly in Charlottesville where God only knows what that vast hospital throws out in the trash) because you just don't know what they've been eating. 'Course, if I was hungry enough, I might not be so particular.

[scrubber3]

I don't want to get too far off topic, but has anyone considered feeding the squirrels and rabbits in your yard? I have a wooded area out back, and have fiddled with the idea of throwing the old/compost-able material out back. (I have two kids that never finish their plates, and leave fruit and veggies on the plate all the time.)

I see two possible pitfalls: (i) attracting too many venomous animals; and (ii) if SHTF, the squirrels might pack up and leave quickly if there is not enough garbage going out to feed them.

Thoughts, comments, experiences?

If you have these animals already then you shouldn't need to feed them because they are already eating. If they look scrawny, then I guess a squirrel feeder couldn't hurt. The ones around my place are beasts though as there are more than one tree making hickory nuts nearby. Not to mention the grapevines going to the top of two oaks that are helping the cause.

I've actually taken out a few recently because I feared they'd overpopulate. Found out that these are in fact the toughest damn squirrels I've ever encountered. The air rifle absolutely needs a head shot and the .22lr needs to be hollow point unless you can get consistent head shots. It took 4 .22lr non HP to take one down the other day. 3 to the thoracic and the final one to the head. Switched to using the HP and they usually fall out with one shot to the sweet spot. Although I typically go for the head to avoid messing up the meat too much, it isn't always possible depending on distance and angles. Not to mention I only use the irons.

[Remek]

Good tips. I will have to find a good HP for mine

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[Snakester]

I can say we ( 3 neighbors and myself ) have tried everything. About 6 yrs. ago we all agreed that the Squirrel Population was really getting out of hand. 2 neighbors had Squirrels in their houses . They destroyed electrical wiring, Cable Lines , Sheetrock....Alex said he spent almost 3K $$$ to fix the problem. We all started feeding them trying to get them to leave the bird feeders alone...That didn't work ! We were out of town for a couple of weeks last year and they ate a hole 6" in diameter in the top of my Curbie Trash Can. Wasn't even anything in it !
We started catching them in Box traps and taking them to the Park about 3 miles away. We never could tell any difference ! We caught a few in Rat Traps until they got Wise to that....So now we just use the old pellet gun . Much more effective. I myself have killed 30 this year in my 100'x279' yard. I'd have a Meet and Greet here and everybody could bring air rifles , if I thought we all wouldn't get locked up !

[MarcSpaz]

I don't want to get too far off topic, but has anyone considered feeding the squirrels and rabbits in your yard? I have a wooded area out back, and have fiddled with the idea of throwing the old/compost-able material out back. (I have two kids that never finish their plates, and leave fruit and veggies on the plate all the time.)

I see two possible pitfalls: (i) attracting too many venomous animals; and (ii) if SHTF, the squirrels might pack up and leave quickly if there is not enough garbage going out to feed them.

Thoughts, comments, experiences?

I bought my home based on using natural resources for long term independence. I am on a rural cul de sac that backs into woods. The woods are protected lands and a water right-of-way, so it will likely never be developed. There is lot of natural occurring consumable vegetation 3 seasons out of the year.

I have been baiting my backyard for 15 years. Almost daily I have squirrel, fox, raccoon, rabbit, chipmunk and at least once a week a heard of deer come through when the fresh grain is out. Coyote, bear and big cat are all over rural Prince William County too. I've seen all of them in my yard at one point or another as well. I won't go hungry or thirsty regardless of what my commercial household supplies look like. I may lose a little weight thought

My biggest concern is my flimsy as wooden structure (aka house). I really need to think of something more physically secure. I was thinking about an underground airtight bunker with lithium charcoal hydroxide canisters for long term air cleaning. That will prevent people from smoking us out or filling the bunker with water to try to force us out. Even then, you still have to be able to handle liquid and solid waste. Plus, you can't stay in an airtight room forever. So I am not sure what to do.

[GeneFrenkle]

You might want to consider, if legal in your area, to knock out those coyote. They'll wipe out lower level prey. Also, they tend to form packs of about 7 and can take down larger animals.

http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/wildlife/problems/coyotes/

Chances are, you actually have coydog - progeny of coyote and dogs. Worst of coyote and no fear of humans like dog.

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[Reverenddel]

I'll agree with the pellet rifle, and the shelving for prepping. It's REALLY not that hard, and DORM is CORRECT! TP is a BIG item, but I am unwilling to go 120 using LEAVES!

One thing to remember with wild animals, thin the weak ones NOW! You want the strongest, hardiest animal stock you can get to make it through a disaster.

[Kreutz]

Well, I'd feel bad for ignoring the good advice scrubber took the time to share, I'll waylay some dried and canned foods, which is easy enough, but how does one store water? The only truly nonreactive container I could think of is glass, which is impractical. The cat sleeps in the crawlspace I'd store most of this in anyway, so mice shouldn'be an issue though I'd still seal it all anyway. I have a wood stove and more wood than I know what to do with, so there's fuel and heat.

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[Reverenddel]

THIS IS THE RESPONSE FROM THE HIPPIE/COMMIE EX-NEIGHBOR, THIS IS WHAT WE ARE UP AGAINST!:

This guy has no long term goals. Why do I say this, when he's obviously preparing for some apocalyptic collapse that will, in all truth, never actually happen to the levels that he's thinking?

Ok, so guy has a small military compound for him and his family and no one else. Not his friends, or extended family. Likely this will last a year or two max. Then he's gotta start bartering for supplies. Realistically, I doubt he's the kind of dude that barters, so much as shoots people and steals sh't when desperation sets in, but we will assume not for this case.

He's spent a year and such in a bunker with his family. The rest of us on the outside have banded together. We've been fighting crackheads, aliens, zombies, whatever, for a couple years now. They are late to the party, and now, seriously unequipped to deal with life outside. This is why prisoners go back to jail. Society moves forward, even if it's falling backward.

Sh't hits the fan, and I'm not going to a preppers house, know what I mean? I'm not gonna survive by the whim of the selfish. I'm gonna find me some hippies, burners, bohemians, people who barter goods and share skill sets as a way of life BEFORE sh't hits the fan.

Why? Because survival of all species is about diversity, not bottlenecking. Isolation equals extinction.

As a literature prof of mine once said:

"You know what's wrong with the parable of the grasshopper and the ant? It's backwards. The difference between a swarm of ants and a swarm of locusts is that the locusts never go hungry when the food supply runs out. Locusts don't have to hoard for the winter. They move on. They live in mass numbers like ants, but outside the anthill where it's dangerous and wild. They are the true survivors. That's why the bible never said anything about a swarm of ants. You step on those. You fear locusts."

MY RIPOSTE:

Preparing is about having a plan, and being ready for ANYTHING. Remember also, resources can go scarce. After Hurricane Katrina, and Sandy, you had thousands of people with nothing in their pantry, no self-protection, or a plan to get out. The governments failed each time on a local, state, and federal level.

You have been thru this crap with Isabelle. We had NO electricity for a week, with ICE cold water that was at time unavailable because of the pumps. The streets were clear, but they had NOTHING available. Think how much better it would have been to have a couple of battery operated fans, and solar rechargers, and water containers for washing when the water went out.

Now think what happens if the sewage backs up. (shrugs) Not everything is "Zombies", or "TEOTWAKI".

Your assumption that he's "isolated" couldn't be further from the truth. What he's talking about are people who do NOTHING, and expect OTHERS to tend to them, and keep them safe. He's got a "group", they probably own the land together, and probably have a nice training program, but it doesn't pay to TELL people things like that... then they start to EXPECT you to take care of them.

It's true a diversity can provide certain skills, but if I have to choose between hippies, potheads, and burners, or a group of Ex military special forces who have been preparing, training, and planning... I'm going with the guys who have been in combat.

Obviously, you've never met the Siafu Ants of Eastern Africa. They kill, eat, and travel... and are feared amongst the locusts, rats, and humans alike.

Just saying, "Buy a shotgun, and keep extra in pantry" It makes life easier.

[jdonovan]

We started catching them in Box traps and taking them to the Park about 3 miles away. We never could tell any difference ! We caught a few in Rat Traps until they got Wise to that....So now we just use the old pellet gun . Much more effective. I myself have killed 30 this year in my 100'x279' yard. I'd have a Meet and Greet here and everybody could bring air rifles , if I thought we all wouldn't get locked up !

I was willing to let them be, but when the started chewing on the aluminum sided house, they had to go.

When I'd come home from the office at night I'd find literally 20+ of 'em in the front yard, and more in back.

We waited for hunting season, and took daily limit for several weeks straight... and no real noticeable reduction. I had permission from several neighbors to help rid their yards too, and they were also working on the reduction efforts. No change.

The only thing I EVER found that worked was rat baits. Got the traps that put the green bait blocks inside. Took about 3-4 months of constant effort, but it brought the population into more of a acceptable to me level.

We went several years only seeing a few at a time. The numbers are back up, but not to the point of causing damage to property. Might be time to take proactive actions again.