Starbucks appears to be caving

[dorminWS]

However - there is a fine line between being a gentleman and allowing one-self to be walked all over.

True. But this controversy, I hate to say, is self-inflicted. I suppose it just shows that conservatives are not very good at political theater. Schultz would never have needed to write the letter if groups of OCers had not made a large show of patronizing "Starbucks Appreciation Day". Regardless of the rightness of their message, turning Starbucks stores into stages for a political demonstration was bad politics, and it backfired.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

+1 I can see it. Business is business; and Starbucks needs to sell that ever-lovin' $4 coffee to everybody that's enough of a coffee afficionado, or affluent enough, or dumb enough to pay that much money for it; be they pro-gun, anti-gun, democrat, republican, Methodist or Episcopalian. Sad truth is, there are most probably more gun-hating, tree-hugging metrosexual new-age hippies that hang out at Starbucks and suck down $4 lattes than there are folks who are of like mind with us. If OCers inadvertently (or intentionally, for that matter) drive away that segment of Starbuck's business, they are not only punishing Starbucks for supporting them, they are actually helping any competitor of Starbucks who has banned guns.

[Mindflayer]

"ASSertive OC" is a great term. It's one thing to run in with your jacket off, but another entirely to go hang out in "full battle rattle" and your favorite "Affliction" t-shirt.... Acting in a manner intended to offend or provoke is what psychologists describe as "being a dick".... Really works against the efforts to prove that we've civil, sane and responsible.

Exactly. I have run in a few times, grabbed my coffee, and left. No drama, no problems. In my dozen or so times I've run in without my cover shirt, I have had one guy ask me why I had a gun - not accusatory, but curious - and I told him I had just been hunting. He responded with an "Oh!" and went on his way.

OTOH, I have been around OCers exactly as Jimmy put it. They waltz on and purposely draw attention to their armed status, and when someone asks, they say as loud and aggressively as possible, "BECAUSE IT IS MY RIGHT!" That wins us no points. A calm, "I want to protect my family" or "I compete in shooting sports" or just a smile and a nod goes a long way.

For a long time in American society, discretion and subtlety were hallmarks of a gentleman. We seem to have lost that honorable tradition. It is high time each of us took steps to restore it.

Amen, Bob. Amen.

[KaosDad]

Well put, Firemanbob!

[ShotgunBlast]

However - there is a fine line between being a gentleman and allowing one-self to be walked all over.

True. But this controversy, I hate to say, is self-inflicted. I suppose it just shows that conservatives are not very good at political theater. Schultz would never have needed to write the letter if groups of OCers had not made a large show of patronizing "Starbucks Appreciation Day". Regardless of the rightness of their message, turning Starbucks stores into stages for a political demonstration was bad politics, and it backfired.

I think the Starbucks Appreciation Days only came about because Moms Demand Action was having "Skip Starbucks Saturday" events because Starbucks did not have an outright ban of firearms as their policy.

Maybe it seems self-inflicted because the OCers came out in numbers and you wouldn't see what Moms Demand Action is doing if they're not visiting.

[allingeneral]

Here's the interview with Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz

http://money.cnn.com/2013/09/18/news/co ... tml?iid=GM

[GeneFrenkle]

Sad truth is, there are most probably more gun-hating, tree-hugging metrosexual new-age hippies that hang out at Starbucks and suck down $4 lattes than there are folks who are of like mind with us.

Probably that and we're spending that $4 on 30 22LR or 6 5.56 rounds.

[Mindflayer]

http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_fil ... bacle.html

Starbucks has simply said that they no longer want to be a proxy in our war, thankyouverymuch, and to please just leave them out of it. They're not saying that they oppose gun ownership, lawful concealed carry, self defense, or anything else. They just don't want us to use them as a political football any more. They're not our enemies, but only because they apparently have more tolerance for us than we do for them.

[WRW]

IIRC, one party or the other requested a statement of policy from Starbucks. The reply infuriated tha gun grabbers, and they called for a boycot. The responsible gun owners called for a day of display and coffee to show support for the coffee shop and to reduce any losses Starbucks might experience...that was all. If some are adding provocative messages on their shirts or acting boisterous, then shame on them. Otherwise, carry on.

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[Jakeiscrazy]

Starbucks has never wanted to take a stance on this but they are probably tired on people open carrying rifles in front of their stores. Heck if I owned a store I wouldn't want you OCing a rifle because your scaring away customers. I would like to say this is a learning experience for the gun community but something tells me this will happen again.

[vaeevictiss]

My opinion: Open carriers are not the entire customer base of Starbucks, and to do what is best for their business they must appeal to all of their customers, and what they have done is a rational and reasonable approach to a growing problem for them. "Assertive open carriers" in too large numbers, too often, are bad for business. Reacting against Starbucks for their reasonable action is childish.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. "Assertive open carry" (the most polite term I can use for the practice) for the purpose of making a political statement is a thing you have the right to do, but it is not the right thing to do. It is the gun owner's equivalent of putting open pipes on a Harley - within your rights, but obnoxious. And frankly, it makes me wonder whether one is compensating for small equipment inside the waistband, like a fat geezer driving a Corvette.

For a long time in American society, discretion and subtlety were hallmarks of a gentleman. We seem to have lost that honorable tradition. It is high time each of us took steps to restore it.

Ya know I actually came here to make the same statement. I've been to an open carry lunch with my wife and meet some good people...so I'm not saying this is all open carriers. However there are a lot that do it just to try and make a point. They do it to TRY to get into a conversation or argument. It is completely counter productive to our cause and they don't even realize it. What kind of dip5hit thinks it's a good idea to walk into Starbucks with an ar15?

Just because you can legally do something doesn't mean it is helpful to what we are fighting for. Get the picture... the country isn't ready for it. Instead of making people nervous, how about just hiding it until it needs to be used and changing their opinion that way.

Sent from my Galaxy S4

[ShotgunBlast]

Moms Demand Action chalks this up as a win and it's on to the next business.

CONGRATULATIONS!! You did it! Starbucks woke up and smelled the coffee! This is just the beginning. Moms Demand Action will continue to lead the charge in pressuring American businesses and institutions to respect and support gun safe environments. With you by our side, we will change our culture and end the epidemic of gun violence in America.

https://www.facebook.com/MomsDemandAction

[Reverenddel]

You know? I carry everywhere, concealed.

I have open carried in the past, but I don't need to let the villains know... an "Ath-whippin'." could be possible.

[Swampman]

My opinion: Open carriers are not the entire customer base of Starbucks, and to do what is best for their business they must appeal to all of their customers, and what they have done is a rational and reasonable approach to a growing problem for them. "Assertive open carriers" in too large numbers, too often, are bad for business. Reacting against Starbucks for their reasonable action is childish.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. "Assertive open carry" (the most polite term I can use for the practice) for the purpose of making a political statement is a thing you have the right to do, but it is not the right thing to do. It is the gun owner's equivalent of putting open pipes on a Harley - within your rights, but obnoxious. And frankly, it makes me wonder whether one is compensating for small equipment inside the waistband, like a fat geezer driving a Corvette.

For a long time in American society, discretion and subtlety were hallmarks of a gentleman. We seem to have lost that honorable tradition. It is high time each of us took steps to restore it.

Hey Bob! For once can we leave reason out of it?

[FiremanBob]

Hey Bob! For once can we leave reason out of it?

We could, but you would hate yourself in the morning.

[Reverenddel]

Bob...

It's better to regret the things you HAVE done... than regret the things you HAVE NOT!

It's why I express an opinion on line. Yes, we're tracked, monitored, and some wonk at some computer in some local, state, and/or federal office is reading...

They hate us.

We love freedom, we respect the right to dissent, we do not go along to get along...

We're the 20% that started the American Revolution, we're the people in the Commonwealthy in the 1860's who said "NOW HOLD ON A MINUTE ABE!", We're the people who sighed, and went world wide in the 1940's.

We do not shirk from tyranny.

Sic Semper Tyranis ...Thus Always To Tyrants.

[WRW]

Brother Dave Gardner, paraphrased: let those that never wanted any have memories of never having had any. Good point, Reverenddel..

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[Swampman]

Hey Bob! For once can we leave reason out of it?

We could, but you would hate yourself in the morning.

Yes, I believe I would!

[FiremanBob]

Bob...

It's better to regret the things you HAVE done... than regret the things you HAVE NOT!

It's why I express an opinion on line. Yes, we're tracked, monitored, and some wonk at some computer in some local, state, and/or federal office is reading...

They hate us.

We love freedom, we respect the right to dissent, we do not go along to get along...

We're the 20% that started the American Revolution, we're the people in the Commonwealthy in the 1860's who said "NOW HOLD ON A MINUTE ABE!", We're the people who sighed, and went world wide in the 1940's.

We do not shirk from tyranny.

Sic Semper Tyranis ...Thus Always To Tyrants.

That all sounds entirely reasonable to me.

[vaeevictiss]

Here is my take on it...

I fully understand that a business doesn't want to be part of the political discussion... and that is what happened due mostly to stupid, arrogant open carriers (I still wonder if many of those were actually antis trying to make us look bad lol...I mean come on... an ar15... really?!)

But what I do not understand is everyone's full support for the guy. People seem to be missing two elements.

1. He still clearly said "we do not want guns in our stores"... period

2. You don't see him cussing out the mothers against guns thing people (are they not part of the political debate?) When they do their protests and what not.

You can think all you want. The guy made a smart business decision...

Take the average conservative gun owner, now take the average liberal, anti gun sheep... who do you think is more likely to drink Starbucks coffee?

He did what will make him more money. He doesn't give a crap about the politics.

Sent from my Galaxy S4

[steelheart]

Iv never been to a starbucks but i do know i dont want a half caf double espresso with whip thats gonna cost me more money than gettin a coffee and doughnut at 7 11 or sheetz and neither care if im OCing! Yes im an OC person. No im not an azzhat when im carrying. Iv yet to actually see an azzhat OCing. If starbucks went outta business tomorrow i could care less.

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