Starbucks appears to be caving

[Swampman]

Looks like Starbucks is starting to give in to the pressure. The CEO announced yesterday that while OC'ers and CC'ers will still be served (for now), he is asking that gun owners not bring their weapons into the store so the bed-wetters can feel safe. Then the stupid wench on Fox this morning said "I guess no one wants to tell all those gun owners they can't have their morning coffee." I intend to make Roger Ailes aware of this stupid comment, which was completely uncalled for, and I intend to stay away from Starbucks.

[FiremanBob]

My opinion: Open carriers are not the entire customer base of Starbucks, and to do what is best for their business they must appeal to all of their customers, and what they have done is a rational and reasonable approach to a growing problem for them. "Assertive open carriers" in too large numbers, too often, are bad for business. Reacting against Starbucks for their reasonable action is childish.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. "Assertive open carry" (the most polite term I can use for the practice) for the purpose of making a political statement is a thing you have the right to do, but it is not the right thing to do. It is the gun owner's equivalent of putting open pipes on a Harley - within your rights, but obnoxious. And frankly, it makes me wonder whether one is compensating for small equipment inside the waistband, like a fat geezer driving a Corvette.

For a long time in American society, discretion and subtlety were hallmarks of a gentleman. We seem to have lost that honorable tradition. It is high time each of us took steps to restore it.

[Snakester]

I can count on one hand how many times I have been in a Starbucks ! I have CC every time I have been there and on every occasions witnessed several OC . I can make it through life not getting my Coffee there...WAWA has much better Coffee and a better price. I have no problem putting Starbucks on my "AUTO ZONE LIST ".

[dorminWS]

My opinion: Open carriers are not the entire customer base of Starbucks, and to do what is best for their business they must appeal to all of their customers, and what they have done is a rational and reasonable approach to a growing problem for them. "Assertive open carriers" in too large numbers, too often, are bad for business. Reacting against Starbucks for their reasonable action is childish.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. "Assertive open carry" (the most polite term I can use for the practice) for the purpose of making a political statement is a thing you have the right to do, but it is not the right thing to do. It is the gun owner's equivalent of putting open pipes on a Harley - within your rights, but obnoxious. And frankly, it makes me wonder whether one is compensating for small equipment inside the waistband, like a fat geezer driving a Corvette.

For a long time in American society, discretion and subtlety were hallmarks of a gentleman. We seem to have lost that honorable tradition. It is high time each of us took steps to restore it.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

+1

[j1mmyd]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. "Assertive open carry"

"ASSertive OC" is a great term. It's one thing to run in with your jacket off, but another entirely to go hang out in "full battle rattle" and your favorite "Affliction" t-shirt. Acting in a manner intended to offend or provoke is what psychologists describe as "being a dick". It is *exactly* as cool as sagging your pants and looking like a fake gangster.

Really works against the efforts to prove that we've civil, sane and responsible.

[GeneFrenkle]

@firemanbob - agreed - starbucks is a business and not a battleground. Their statement is making it clear that grandstanding and over the top behavior really isn't desired. It'll be interesting to see if it's enforced, what happens in states where such notices have the force of law, and if they put up legally binding notices. Not that I buy from there, but I agree that they don't need a 2nd A equivalent of a san francisco pride march in their premises.

[Bags30]

I don't believe they are going to post signs, just writing an open letter. This really gives the store the option. If an assertive OC walks in and makes people uncomfortable, they can ask him to leave.
If a regular OC comes in and nobody complains, probably no problem.
If we make a big deal, the will likely post signs.

[Kreutz]

While I don't OC and never would and I actually agree in spirit with FiremanBob, I can't help but feel this is still a sly assault on all gun owners by proxy by publicly declaring us all dangerous ("we won't ask our employees to confront armed customers").

I may not OC and I may not visit Starbucks ever, but this letter leaves a bad taste in my mouth all the same.

[FiremanBob]

If you read the article in the WSJ (I haven't seen it elsewhere), Starbucks has made clear that they aren't banning guns and they will not refuse service or ask you to leave. It is wrong to over-react to their statement.

As Jimmy said, act like a dick, expect to be treated like one. Although as I wrote earlier, someone acting out in such a manner makes me suspect he has a small one.

[docapos]

Maybe some letters to local store managers are in order, just polite non threatening verbiage stating that we understand that there are people who take things to the extreme but responsible gun owners appreciate that starbucks has not become a gun free zone.

In the end it's not about whether you like starbucks coffee or prices it is the baby steps of businesses creating normalcy out of no gun policies.

[j1mmyd]

I'm embarrassed to admit that I blow about $75 a month in SBUX. Or, I used to... Not sure its boycott-worthy, but I'll look for caffeine elsewhere when possible while I ponder it.

Their attempt to thread the needle fails and they've chosen a side. Their statement will now further embolden hoplophobes to engage us with their full and righteous outrage - until they catch the vapors and faint away. I guarantee that there will be increased hostile interaction between customers, allowing the manager to eject the carrier per policy.

[ronster19]

@firemanbob-"For a long time in American society, discretion and subtlety were hallmarks of a gentleman. We seem to have lost that honorable tradition. It is high time each of us took steps to restore it."

Very well said.

[FiremanBob]

Jimmy, are you going to work the AS this weekend? We have a full line and could use more experienced instructors.

Sorry for the threadjack.

[j1mmyd]

Jimmy, are you going to work the AS this weekend?

Responded via PM.

[darkstar3d]

It's odd to me. My old store did its best business ever when we had an OC event to counter the boycott recently. And now this. I don't OC as often as I used to but when I do, I avoid tshirts and wear a shirt with collar and slacks, which is usually well received.

I have seen those that OC and look like they are challenging anyone to say something to them and those people should just leave guns alone. Having been in firefights in the Army, I hope to never be in that situation again.

[newdovo]

...it makes me wonder whether one is compensating for small equipment inside the waistband...

Great... now I get to feel self-conscious when I decide to open carry my .38 "snubby".

[zykur]

I understand people wanting to express their rights but sometimes just because you can doesn't mean you should do something. Carrying an AR on your back may be legal but just makes it more difficult to make non gun owners feel comfortable while just trying to enjoy coffee.

[kelu]

I don't have the money to make a "Wild West Cafe" shop...

[allingeneral]

@firemanbob-"For a long time in American society, discretion and subtlety were hallmarks of a gentleman. We seem to have lost that honorable tradition. It is high time each of us took steps to restore it."

Very well said.

However - there is a fine line between being a gentleman and allowing one-self to be walked all over.

[FiremanBob]

However - there is a fine line between being a gentleman and allowing one-self to be walked all over.

True. But this controversy, I hate to say, is self-inflicted. I suppose it just shows that conservatives are not very good at political theater. Schultz would never have needed to write the letter if groups of OCers had not made a large show of patronizing "Starbucks Appreciation Day". Regardless of the rightness of their message, turning Starbucks stores into stages for a political demonstration was bad politics, and it backfired.