False Patriotism

[SHMIV]

No one seems to be able to actually say why we should be patriotic. Is patriotism being subject to a form of government and obeying its laws? Is patriotism a "love" for that government and its laws? Is patriotism a love for its people, your kin, your fellow countrymen? Or is patriotism whatever I want it to be and whenever other people fail to behave within my definition then they are commie scum that should leave the country if they hate it so much?

According to Merriam Webster:

Definition of PATRIOTISM:
love for or devotion to one's country

Definition of PATRIOT:
one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests
_____________________________________________________________________________________

When I say that I am patriotic, that I love this country, I have to look at what makes this country what it is. And at the heart of that is the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights.

I've had heated discussions with folks who claim that the Declaration isn't a foundational document, but I disagree. Not only does this document officially separate us from England, but it tells us why. It lays out things that free men can reasonably expect from their government. The Constitution gives guidelines for the government to follow, and the Bill of Rights lays out some basic, God given rights that we should all enjoy.

Patriotism, in my opinion, has nothing to do with blindly following leaders. In fact, we are a free people. Free people do not have leaders. Governing officials were never intended to lead us; their purpose is only to represent us.

So, why should anyone be patriotic? Because, for all of its current faults and warts, I still cannot think of a better country in which I could reside. As I type this, (freely expressing my opinions on the internet), I'm smoking a fresh cigarette, and drinking an ice cold beer. I've got a gun on my hip (that goes where I go, freely and openly) and a shotgun beside me. I've got a fueled up Cadillac in the drive, money in my pocket, and food in my belly. I can choose to go to Church, where I want to go to Church, or not to go to Church. I can tell anyone who will listen that our current President is a worthless fool. Further, we have places with warm climates. We have cold climates. We have mountains, beaches, and desserts. Politically speaking, if you prefer to live in a more communist type of setting, you may find like minded folks and gather together in one community. If you later decide that you don't like it, you may leave. If you just want to be by yourself and be left the hell alone, you can (mostly) do it.

In this country, we have a military that is composed of people who volunteered, of their own free will, to defend this country. There are thousands of men and women who have volunteered to put themselves in harms way, to even die, for me. And, for you. They VOLUNTEERED!

Why should I be patriotic? Why should anyone be patriotic? I must ask, Why SHOULDN'T we be patriotic? Is there a comparable nation on this earth? Is their a better nation? If so, where is it?

[SpanishInquisition]

Actually it's easy to be patriotic if you've ever seen the living conditions and how government works (or doesn't) in some other countries. Belize and Juarez Mexico come to mind for me as relatively nearby examples, though there are others I've seen also. The designers of the Constitution and the builders of this nation did a great job of assuring that everyone in this land gets a chance to better themselves.

Those that served in the military did so to preserve your ability to live as you do, and when in service in far away lands, to help those there to be able to as well.

All in all, rendering honors to the flag as a way to say "Thank you" is a pretty inexpensive payment for what rights those people have kept tyranny from stripping away from you, and for preserving the incredible freedoms we enjoy as Americans.

[dorminWS]

Seems to me you guys are focused on the wrong concept, here:

I'm patriotic. I love my country. I salute its flag. I unreservedly pledge allegiance.

But just because I love my country, its foundational principles and documents, its flag, its culture and most of its traditions DOES NOT mean I love its current government and what it has become. There's a difference. The two are separate and distinct. The former should be preserved forever; the latter needs to be changed.

Don't overlook that; and now that you've been reminded of it, don't ever forget it.

[Reverenddel]

I concur.

You know the biggest problem isn't with the likeminded folk, or the semantic arguements.

It's the fact we have homegrown Commie scum right here in this country that hates Free Speech, Owning Weapons, Making money (AND KEEPING IT), and the freedom to succeed/fail ON YOUR OWN TERMS!

Those people make me wanna puke.

[SHMIV]

It's the fact we have homegrown Commie scum right here in this country that hates Free Speech, Owning Weapons, Making money (AND KEEPING IT), and the freedom to succeed/fail ON YOUR OWN TERMS!

Yep. Those folks are a problem.

My Grandfather pointed out to me, once, that the "Liberal" minded folks (who aren't really liberal, anyway) rely naturally on group identity. It's comes easily to them, this banding together under a particular cause. And, they've got lot's of them. Abortion, feminism, environmentalism, etc. Indeed, they are lost without the group to provide them with identity.

Folks with a more conservative mindset tend to be far more independent in nature. It's much harder for independent people to band together. Independent folks don't have much use for a leader, and certainly don't require their neighbors to justify their existence. And, of course, independent people have their own views and opinions, which often conflict with the views and opinions of other independent people. And while these conflicts are relatively minor in the grand scheme of things, they can lead to heated and passionate discussion.

And, this, I think, is why those with the more liberal mindset have gained any traction at all. It's kind of the difference between herding sheep and herding cats.

[Wallace]

No one seems to be able to actually say why we should be patriotic. Is patriotism being subject to a form of government and obeying its laws? Is patriotism a "love" for that government and its laws? Is patriotism a love for its people, your kin, your fellow countrymen? Or is patriotism whatever I want it to be and whenever other people fail to behave within my definition then they are commie scum that should leave the country if they hate it so much?

According to Merriam Webster:

Definition of PATRIOTISM:
love for or devotion to one's country

Definition of PATRIOT:
one who loves his or her country and supports its authority and interests
_____________________________________________________________________________________

When I say that I am patriotic, that I love this country, I have to look at what makes this country what it is. And at the heart of that is the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights.

I've had heated discussions with folks who claim that the Declaration isn't a foundational document, but I disagree. Not only does this document officially separate us from England, but it tells us why. It lays out things that free men can reasonably expect from their government. The Constitution gives guidelines for the government to follow, and the Bill of Rights lays out some basic, God given rights that we should all enjoy.

Patriotism, in my opinion, has nothing to do with blindly following leaders. In fact, we are a free people. Free people do not have leaders. Governing officials were never intended to lead us; their purpose is only to represent us.

So, why should anyone be patriotic? Because, for all of its current faults and warts, I still cannot think of a better country in which I could reside. As I type this, (freely expressing my opinions on the internet), I'm smoking a fresh cigarette, and drinking an ice cold beer. I've got a gun on my hip (that goes where I go, freely and openly) and a shotgun beside me. I've got a fueled up Cadillac in the drive, money in my pocket, and food in my belly. I can choose to go to Church, where I want to go to Church, or not to go to Church. I can tell anyone who will listen that our current President is a worthless fool. Further, we have places with warm climates. We have cold climates. We have mountains, beaches, and desserts. Politically speaking, if you prefer to live in a more communist type of setting, you may find like minded folks and gather together in one community. If you later decide that you don't like it, you may leave. If you just want to be by yourself and be left the hell alone, you can (mostly) do it.

In this country, we have a military that is composed of people who volunteered, of their own free will, to defend this country. There are thousands of men and women who have volunteered to put themselves in harms way, to even die, for me. And, for you. They VOLUNTEERED!

Why should I be patriotic? Why should anyone be patriotic? I must ask, Why SHOULDN'T we be patriotic? Is there a comparable nation on this earth? Is their a better nation? If so, where is it?

"Definition of PATRIOTISM:
love for or devotion to one's country"
All of those freedoms have been secured by one thing, the peoples dedication to each other and working (or banding) together to create, promote and defend it. If we do not have love for our fellow countrymen (even the 51% that voted for barry) we do not have patriotism. Is there a comparable nation on Earth? No, but it didnt get that way just because some guy drafted a constitution, its the people that make it happen. Patriotism goes deeper than being grateful for what the laws of the land "give" us, and being happy that we live in a land where we can be free.

And serving in the armed forces is not the only form of service to the people of this country. Many other people sacrifice in many other ways providing for the safety, security and prosperity of the people in this country.

[SHMIV]

"Definition of PATRIOTISM:
love for or devotion to one's country"
All of those freedoms have been secured by one thing, the peoples dedication to each other and working (or banding) together to create, promote and defend it. If we do not have love for our fellow countrymen (even the 51% that voted for barry) we do not have patriotism. Is there a comparable nation on Earth? No, but it didnt get that way just because some guy drafted a constitution, its the people that make it happen. Patriotism goes deeper than being grateful for what the laws of the land "give" us, and being happy that we live in a land where we can be free.

And serving in the armed forces is not the only form of service to the people of this country. Many other people sacrifice in many other ways providing for the safety, security and prosperity of the people in this country.

Oh, indeed. My little blurb was in no way intended to cover everything. Large volumes of books have been published on the subject of why we should be patriotic. I certainly had no hope of boiling it down to a couple of paragraphs. The things that I listed were just a few things that stood out in my mind, at the time. I also didn't mean to imply that military service was the only way in which one could serve the nation. Certainly, those who create a useful product serve the nation, not only with that product, but in the creation of meaningful employment for others that follows the products creation. Surely, anyone who faithfully gets up every day and goes to work at his honest job is a credit to the nation. Those who volunteer their time for the enrichment of others are also a credit. I, personally, am most impressed with those who sign up for military duty simply because of what's implied when one volunteers.

The reason that I say that the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights are at the heart of it all, is because those documents set the guidelines for what we are (or should be, anyway) striving for with this great Nation. While I agree that the people of the nation make it happen, there would be no "it" to make happen without the vision of those documents.

[ratherfish]

The Constitution may allow you to make any gesture you want as an act of political expression, but THIS is what gives me the RIGHT UNDER THE LAW OF THE LAND TO SALUTE!
...
Rules for Rendering Hand Salute of U.S. Flag
Law Now Allows Retirees and Vets to Salute Flag
Traditionally, members of the nation's veterans service organizations have rendered the hand-salute during the national anthem and at events involving the national flag only while wearing their organization’s official head-gear.

The National Defense Authorization Act of 2008 contained an amendment to allow un-uniformed servicemembers, military retirees, and veterans to render a hand salute during the hoisting, lowering, or passing of the U.S. flag.

A later amendment further authorized hand-salutes during the national anthem by veterans and out-of-uniform military personnel. This was included in the Defense Authorization Act of 2009, which President Bush signed on Oct. 14, 2008.

Here is the actual text from the law:

SEC. 595. MILITARY SALUTE FOR THE FLAG DURING THE NATIONAL ANTHEM
BY MEMBERS OF THE ARMED FORCES NOT IN
UNIFORM AND BY VETERANS.

Section 301(b)(1) of title 36, United States Code, is amended by
striking subparagraphs (A) through (C) and inserting the following new
subparagraphs:
``(A) individuals in uniform should give the
military salute at the first note of the anthem and
maintain that position until the last note;
``(B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who
are present but not in uniform may render the military
salute in the manner provided for individuals in
uniform; and
``(C) all other persons present should face the flag
and stand at attention with their right hand over the
heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should
remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it
at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart;


Note: Part (C) applies to those not in the military and non-veterans. The phrase "men not in uniform" refers to civil service uniforms like police, fire fighters, and letter carriers - non-veteran civil servants who might normally

http://www.military.com/benefits/resour ... -u.s.-flag
...
As I said......take a flying leap.

Patriotism isn't a dirty word!

[ratherfish]

More history of the LAW for the ignorant...

April 2, 2009: See updated information at the bottom of this article.

February 13, 2009: See updated information at the bottom of this article.

Many readers have been coming to The Daily Flag looking for information about the change in the U.S. Flag Code that permits military veterans not in uniform to render a hand salute. As originally written into Section 595 Section 594 of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2009, the new law (Public Law No. 110-181 of the United States Code) reads:

by striking “all persons present” and all that follows through the end of the section and inserting the following: “all persons present in uniform should render the military salute. Members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute. All other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, or if applicable, remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Citizens of other countries present should stand at attention. All such conduct toward the flag in a moving column should be rendered at the moment the flag passes.”

However, this change in the U.S. Code caused problems, because “saluting the flag” is addressed three times in the U.S. Code, and the legislative change in the law that took place in July 2008 addressed only one— TITLE 4, Chapter 1, Section 9, which is shown above.

It failed to mention Title 4, Chapter 1, Section 4 from the same Chapter 1, which speaks to saluting the flag during the Pledge of Allegiance, and from Title 36—Patriotic and National Observances, Ceremonies, and Organizations, which includes conduct toward the flag during the National Anthem.

Instruction for saluting the the U.S. Flag during the National Anthem is found in a different section of the U.S. Code from where the “Flag Code” is found, and it is sadly, frequently, overlooked. Many readers comment that they were taught to stand at attention during the National Anthem, but not taught to salute.

Senator James Inhofe (R-Oklahoma) sponsored the original legislation in the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2009, and sponsored the amendment that Congress has now passed which clarifies the legislation and brings all three sections of the U.S. Code together to say the same thing —that veterans are now permitted to render a hand salute when the U.S. flag is raised and lowered, passes in review, during the Pledge of Allegiance, and during the playing of the National Anthem.

The amendment: Sponsor of The Veteran’s Salute Provision included in Section 595 of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2009, S. 3001:

-Amends Title 36 of the United States Code to allow service members not in uniform to salute the flag during the National Anthem.

-FY08 Authorization Bill modified Section 9 of Title 4, US Code, to allow members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform to render the military salute during hoisting, lowering, or passing of the flag

-While the change made to US Code Title 4 allowed our veterans and service members not in uniform to salute the flag when the flag is raised, lowered, or passing in review, it did not allow them to salute the flag during the National Anthem

With this amendment, all portions of the US Code are now consistent for veterans and military out of uniform, to salute the flag.


Countless veterans have continued to render a military salute to the flag, from the day they first raised their right hand and took an Oath of Allegiance.

This option which allows veterans to salute the flag with a military-style salute is voluntary. Many veterans are pleased by the change in legislation, and many veterans will continue to salute the flag by holding their hands over their heart. I’m glad the U.S. Code now reflects that choice.

http://www.flagsbay.com/flag/2008/10/20 ... e-us-code/

[Kreutz]

Can some of the self-descrribed patriots explain something for me; what exactly is there to be proud of in regards to your nationality?

The nation you're born in is an accident of birth, much like your eye color, race, and socioeconomic status. Why does one take pride in something they literally had nothing to do with?

[SpanishInquisition]

It is? One of my ancestors migrated here in 1613. On the other side of my lineage, the first of my ancestors arrived in the early 1900s. I was born here because they took a chance at making their way in a new land, a land of opportunity and freedom.

I'm glad they did.

[SHMIV]

Can some of the self-descrribed patriots explain something for me; what exactly is there to be proud of in regards to your nationality?

The nation you're born in is an accident of birth, much like your eye color, race, and socioeconomic status. Why does one take pride in something they literally had nothing to do with?

In my case, some of it is ancestral pride. I can trace my bloodlines back to the 1600's, on this continent. If any of the tribes had kept documentation, I could go back farther with it. One of my ancestors, a Massachusetts businessman and local politician, holds the distinction of being kicked out of the British Parliament more than anyone else; he had a dispute over the tax rates. Also, another ancestor, a flag bearer in the Confederate army, lost his leg to a Union cannonball, not too far from where I now live. He went on to teach school, and run a successful store. These things, done or experienced, by my ancestors may seem trivial, but when added up with the actions and experiences of countless others, they shaped the Nation. Yeah, I clearly had no control over occurrences that took place before even my Grandparents birth, but I'm directly descended from those that did. It's a little bit like buying a young horse based on his bloodlines.

On a more recent level, I get the same sort of pride when looking at the Richmond Airport. My Grandfather first came to a little airport in Richmond in the 50's. It consisted of two small hangars and a dirt runway. When he retired, he was the head of that same airport, only by then he had guided it into being an international hub. He met every President from the late 50's to '87. There are three roads in Richmond named after him. Maybe it's a little silly, but I do feel a little prideful when I see the airport and say to myself, or whoever happens to be with me, "There's the airport my Granddaddy built".

And, on a current level, I know that I can have a little impact on what happens. Maybe more so locally, than on a national level, but that's still more than what one can get from many other nations. What I do, or don't do, has an impact, no matter how big or small, positive or negative, on what goes on around me.

I may have had nothing to do with it at the time that I was born, but at this point, if we're old enough to be reading any of this, we've had something to do with it.

[ratherfish]

Can some of the self-descrribed patriots explain something for me; what exactly is there to be proud of in regards to your nationality?

The nation you're born in is an accident of birth, much like your eye color, race, and socioeconomic status. Why does one take pride in something they literally had nothing to do with?

Glad my mother didn't raise a fool.

[Mindflayer]

Can some of the self-descrribed patriots explain something for me; what exactly is there to be proud of in regards to your nationality?

The nation you're born in is an accident of birth, much like your eye color, race, and socioeconomic status. Why does one take pride in something they literally had nothing to do with?

That is true to an extent. However, it's like a matter of anything of faith. I traveled around the world as a military dependent growing up and saw a lot of other nations and cultures. As an adult, I have traveled to and worked with people of other nations. I believe we are still the greatest nation born of the right ideals. I recognize that other nations' citizens may believe the same thing, but in the end, this is what I believe.

[dorminWS]

When the flag passes I salute.

I've EARNED that right.

Right's are inherent. So you can't earn them.....

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Our constitutional rights certainly are inherent. So are others. But my instinct is that there are lesser right that must be earned to be meaningful.

As to the debate about the pledge, I think maybe some folks are taking the language too literally. "THE FLAG" is a metaphor (or so I always supposed) for our country, its basic values, and its foundational documents. That Mr. Bellamy had an ulterior motive when he wrote it doesn't seem to me to be particularly significant. What's important is what's in my heart when I stand, place my hand over my heart, and recite the pledge. Similarly, even though I know the Star Spangled Banner is sung to the tune of an old English drinking song, My heart still swells with pride and I choke up just a little bit when it is played; and I stand to attention and place my hand over my heart. Even if it didn't genuinely touch my soul with a partiotic thrill, it would be the very least I could do to recognize the contributions of those who were called to much greater sacrifices for our nation and our freedoms.

[Reverenddel]

Kreutz, I can kinda get what you're saying, but I think it's a matter of taking pride in the accomplishments of your family, and ancestors.

I can trace my father's side back to a grave sitting in the church of Colonial Williamsburg. I have members of both sides that fought in the American Revolution, the Civil War (South), WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and what I have dubbed "The Middle Eastern Wars (Desert Shield, and Iraq/Afghan war)".

There are moonshiners, politicians, blue collar, teachers, soldiers, sailors, firefighters, policemen, and Hobo's (Uncle Charlie! Seriously! On my Mama's side My Nanny's brother was a Hobo in the 1920's, and 30's).

They're my people, this is my country, the South in my home. I may not like the majority of the people in it, but I love my Heritage, good, bad, and ugly.

And I thank God every day for being a Southerner. Amen. Pass the biscuit, and greens. Thanks.

[dorminWS]

Why does one take pride in something they literally had nothing to do with?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hmmm.... I guess maybe that also explains why you ain't ashamed of yourself.

[Kreutz]

Hmmm.... I guess maybe that also explains why you ain't ashamed of yourself.

I don't get it.

My awesomeness is so great and well, awesome I've actually developed an orbit. As I type this pens and papers are circling me, attracted to the gravitational pull of my glory.

[FiremanBob]

Nice troll, Kreutz. Just because we were lucky enough to be born here, rather than fight, run, or smuggle ourselves to get here, doesn't mean that we didn't learn what makes America an exceptional country in all of human history, and learn to appreciate it.

And it's all at risk in a few weeks.

[SpanishInquisition]

I don't get it.

Exactly!