Latest project - thoughts/questions for discussion

[M1A4ME]

I've decided I want something I figured I'd never want - a short barreled rifle with a silencer/suppressor.

Right now I'm looking at two different options

1) AR15 in 7.62X39

2) AK47 in 7.62X39

Its got to be 7.62X39 as the varmint cartridge has issues even with the longer barrels (not looking to start a caliber discussion, my other ARs are .223/5.56X45 and I've shot enough varmints and deer to know the difference in what the bullets can do.)

Right now, with my currect level of knowledge/experience I see it this way:

1)easy to get a short barreled upper, easy to get and install spare/replacement parts myself, easy to mount a scope, already used to the "mechanics/ergonomics" of the rifle, however, I figure between parts & permits I'm looking at about $2000 to complete it. It would probably be more accurate.

2)easy to buy an AK "pistol", I think I can install a buttstock myself once I decide on the type and I figure it'll be around $1600 between the pistol, the parts and the permits to complete. Its not going to be a target rifle so I figure I could live with 4 to 6" groups at 100 yds. if thats all I end up with (of course I hope it would be better, but who knows).

Feel free to comment.

[Diomed]

The more the merrier!

You're definitely limiting yourself with those two options. Let's look at them individually.

1. AR in 7.62x39. This is an issue because of the caliber. 7.62x39 and the AR don't really go together. You'll have magazine issues unless you get a lower that's capable of using AK mags. The bolt is more prone to breaking due to being machined out to handle the larger rim diameter of the round. On the plus side, it'll probably suppress okay.

2. AK in 7.62x39. They work well as SBRs. The Draco isn't the best choice as a base gun, but it is economical. Depending on what gun you get, it may already have an underfolder stock trunnion installed, which makes the conversion much easier. Avoid the AK if you're thinking of getting a silencer. While they can be made into acceptable hosts, it takes work - the AK is a very poor native silencer host. From eccentric barrel threading to a swiss-cheese gas system there's a lot to fix. I love AKs but I wouldn't suggest getting one to suppress without knowing what you're getting into.

My suggestion would be to look into Remington's new .300 BLK round. It enables the use of an AR with only a barrel change, the cartridge design is optimized to work in STANAG magazines, and it's capable of performing with either subsonic or supersonic loadings out of various barrel lengths. It was designed with silencer use in mind.

[M1A4ME]

decided on the AR in .300 black out.

Got most of the parts together and assembled. Waiting on the barrel, gas tube, front sight base/parts, and the parts to finish the upper receiver.

Went ahead and ordered 500 pieces of brass (came in yesterday). Got the dies on order but haven't gotten them yet.

We'll see how it turns out. When stage one is done it'll have a 16" barrel and I'll see how it shoots with some reloads (jacketed and cast).

Step 2 will be to do the paperwork and get a silencer for it. Leaning towards the YHM quick detachable silencer at this time but haven't quite made up my mind yet. I like the idea of buying their flash suppressors for the .300 black out and one or two of the .223/5.56 ARs and then being able to use the silencer on any of the three rifles.

Step 3 will be to do the paperwalk and get the barrel cut down to 10 or 11 inches and get it rethreaded for the above flash suppressor.

We'll see. I'm awful slow about paperwork sometimes so it may be a few weeks/months before I get around to step 2 and then buying the silencer.

This might be fun and interesting.

[OakRidgeStars]

You could go with an AK-47 Bullpup...


Or, the suppressed Saiga AK from Red Jacket...


Imported Russian 7.62x39 steel ammo is still plentiful right now. Why not have a gun that will shoot the cheapest crap out there and still get the job done?.

[totes6]

Step 3 will be to do the paperwalk and get the barrel cut down to 10 or 11 inches and get it rethreaded for the above flash suppressor.

Why not just buy another upper from AAC? It is already 10.5 inches. And the lower is what gets registered as the SBR. Then you would have two uppers to use depending on what you want to do.

[Diomed]

Step 2 will be to do the paperwork and get a silencer for it. Leaning towards the YHM quick detachable silencer at this time but haven't quite made up my mind yet. I like the idea of buying their flash suppressors for the .300 black out and one or two of the .223/5.56 ARs and then being able to use the silencer on any of the three rifles.
...

We'll see. I'm awful slow about paperwork sometimes so it may be a few weeks/months before I get around to step 2 and then buying the silencer.

Just for clarification, you usually need to buy the silencer before submitting the paperwork. Most dealers prefer to have the can paid for before they'll either give you the serial number or sign the papers.

I would suggest looking for a better can. I've got two of the YHM QD .30 cans. I regret buying them. They're bottom of the barrel as far as suppression goes. Since a silencer is a lifetime purchase - resale on used cans is about nil - it's best policy to get the best one you can afford. It's not easy to do the research, because the silencer field has a lot of opinion and reality-distortion happening and not much objective information, but you'll be better off in the long run for taking the time and doing it right the first time.

[Reverenddel]

Silencer Co, and Gemtech are the two with which I am most familiar.

Having shot the AR (DIABLO) in a 7.62 x39 SBR with Gemtech silencer, I can tell you it's QUIETER, but it ain't SILENCED by any stretch of the imagination!

I know you have your mind made up, and have set upon your path, but may I ask, why not an AR-15 in 6.8 in an SBR, with a decent Gemtech?

Already built, ammo available, and works for our SOF in the sandbox really, really well.

[M1A4ME]

Well, I settled on the .300 black out for several reasons

1) already reload/have .308 bullets so no new types to buy/store
2) all the parts on a .300 Black Out are the same as my .223 AR15's except for the barrel, so reduced parts inventory
3) the really heavy .30 caliber bullets are slow/subsonic in the .300 black out, so even quieter
4) the idea of heavy/slow makes me want to try cast bullets in it (not sure how cast bullets and a silencer will get along but the darn thing might even be fairly quiet with the 16 inch barrel and lead bullets at very low velocities as the powders used with lead bullets will probably be mostly burned out by the time the bullet exits the muzzle)
5) brass is as easy as turning .223 brass (with some work, I know) into .300 Black Out brass - no special brass to buy when/if I need more

There's a silencer company just north of Richmond in Ashland - http://www.tbasuppressors.com/contact-us I've never talked to them yet but I figured I would before I buy. Like I said, I think I'd like to be able to use the silencer on more than one AR15 and I hate the idea of turning it on/off the barrel if I can find a good unit that is detachable so no thread wear is involved.

Its not a long range cartridge but then again, where I live 100 to 200 yd. shot is as long as I'm gonna get. Down in the back lot, next to the woods, no more than 40 or 50 yds. at the longest.

[gunderwood]

decided on the AR in .300 black out.

Nice.

Step 2 will be to do the paperwork and get a silencer for it. Leaning towards the YHM quick detachable silencer at this time but haven't quite made up my mind yet. I like the idea of buying their flash suppressors for the .300 black out and one or two of the .223/5.56 ARs and then being able to use the silencer on any of the three rifles.

Several things about doing that.

1. A .308 suppressor will work fine, but it will be louder on the 5.56 (modestly since the increased volume compensates for some of it) since the baffle holes are too large.

2. I don't know what your 5.56 ARs are, but you may find a .308 suppressor too heavy for their use. A .308 suppressor is going to be heavier and longer; longer is a bad things as it increases the lever arm for the can, which will make it feel even heavier. The rage in 5.56 cans is the minis which aren't quite, but reduce it enough to be hearing safe. Don't compromise on your .300Blackout can to allow your 5.56 to work as well...you'll just end up buying a real 5.56 can and regret the .308 can.

3. I don't know how the .300Blackout does with the shorter barrel, but once 5.56mm reaches around 12" or less, the unburnt gas really eats up the first baffle very quickly. If you are going SBR, consider a muzzle break to be a sacrificial surface rather than a flash hider. The AAC brakeout are really interesting in that you get one chamber of a comp and half of a flash hider. Of course it is a compromise, but you likely will be shooting with the suppressor most of the time...I know from experience with some cans.

4. Consider maintenance of the can. Most rifle cans for these calibers are not user serviceable; they can not be disassembled like say a .22lr can. There are good reasons for that, but one of the purposes of a take apart can is to aid in cleaning. Most 5.56/.308 cans are designed to shoot FMJ or other coated bullets. One reason most .22lr cans are take down is that lead vaporizes when the firearm is shot, the suppressor cools it and that lead gets deposited in the can. It is very hard, if not practically impossible, to remove without scraping. Of course the other reason is that most .22lr ammo is very dirty and that also fills the can. Overtime, if you don't clean it, your suppressor will clog and stop working. Cast loads and SBR are going to make that happen quicker. There are solutions/solvents to cleaning the can, but they work best with just carbon not lead. Again, I don't have one of these yet (really thinking about it), but I'd be cautious about shooting cast lead...I also would rather pay a bit more in powder to get a good clean burning variant than deal with cleaning.

5. QD attachments are not all created equal!

6. Look at a place like Silencer Research and don't get fooled by dBs. Peak dBs are only part of the story. Many of the higher end cans employ a frequency shifting design. Peak dBs may show it slightly higher, but subjective hearing tests have it winning. Video is good, but a camera rarely records what you hear accurately IMHO.

Just for clarification, you usually need to buy the silencer before submitting the paperwork. Most dealers prefer to have the can paid for before they'll either give you the serial number or sign the papers.

+1

Usually you pay for it in full (technically you own it at that point), but the dealer must hold it for you until the paperwork comes through and you can legally take possession of it.

I would suggest looking for a better can.

I'm a big AAC fan because they have some of the best built cans around. There are other good ones, but I like the "milspec" of their cans even though I don't likely need it. It basically is a lifetime purchase. Don't cut corners here or you will end up with a better can down the road and this one collecting dust.

...the silencer field has a lot of opinion and reality-distortion happening and not much objective information, but you'll be better off in the long run for taking the time and doing it right the first time.

+1

Manufacturers can claim nearly anything if they can get it happen just once under special conditions.

Why not just buy another upper from AAC? It is already 10.5 inches. And the lower is what gets registered as the SBR. Then you would have two uppers to use depending on what you want to do.

+1 for this suggestion. Not everyone can thread a barrel correctly for a suppressor. The tolerances on concentrically are much tighter...it's not like threading a flash hider/muzzle break only. You could always just get the 16" upper in another caliber later on with just a barrel swap, but to do that right you are going to need a good smith and it is going to cost money.

Side note: did AAC change the gas system for the 9" PDWs...at what point do you need to change the gas setup when cutting down a 16" barrel?