I know this person who is a friend of a friend of a friend (meaning he's no personal friend of mine)...he shoots his pistol in his own basement! From what I've seen, I don't think its safe at all...regardless of how he has things set up, ventilated, etc. I asked him "Is this even legal?" (in NoVa suburban environment; next door is only 10-15 feet away). And he responds "it's my property and I can do whatever I want in it, right?" followed by "...been doing it all this time and no one called the cops on me (yet)."
I know some people actually do this sort of thing, but the ones I've seen on the web are houses that are in remote locations, have gigantic basements (that are typically remodeled for this purpose; reinforcements installed everywhere), and have an actual ventilation system (not open windows + fan).
Though he's no friend, he's still a human being with a family...so, it bothers me. Maybe if I could quote or show something legal to him, he may reconsider. But, for some reason I doubt it...he seems like the "tough guy" type who (in his own way) defies rules and regulations to show off his manhood. Anyone have any ideas on how to get his attention on this? (Besides "call the cops on him...learn his lesson").
Shooting in your own basement
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LFS
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Re: Shooting in your own basement
What county does he live in? He is almost certainly breaking the law if he is Fairfax or Arlington.
Re: Shooting in your own basement
He lives in the Centreville area, I think. Maybe Manassas. Not exactly sure. We were picking him up one night and hung out at Centreville...wasn't too far from his house.LFS wrote:What county does he live in? He is almost certainly breaking the law if he is Fairfax or Arlington.
Re: Shooting in your own basement
Legal in Fairfax County as far as I know. Laws/ordinance of discharge of firearms all deal with outside.
Of course, negligent discharge or public endangerment laws apply indoors as well, so I'd think a good backstop and reasonable measures to protect penetration of basement windows would be expected. Offhand, I don't think that popping off 10 rounds of .22 every so often is going to create a health hazard as to smoke.
Section 6-1-2. - Hunting or discharge of firearms in certain places prohibited; exceptions.
(a)
It shall be unlawful for any person to shoot any gun in any areas of the County which are so heavily populated as to make such conduct dangerous. Except as otherwise provided herein, it shall be unlawful to discharge any gun:
(1)
In all areas of the County except those areas which are exempted in accordance with Appendix J to the Fairfax County Code;
(2)
On any lot of real property containing less than twenty acres; and
(3)
On any parcel of land which is not posted with signs giving reasonable notice that guns are in use on that parcel of land and that no trespassing is allowed. Such signs shall be placed where they can reasonably be seen. However, if firearms are in use on only a portion of any parcel of land which meets the acreage and other requirements of the term "parcel of land," as defined by Section 6-1-1, then only that portion of that parcel of land on which firearms are used shall be posted with signs.
(b)
It shall be unlawful for any person to hunt with a gun any bird or game animal on or within 100 yards from any primary or secondary highway. A violation of this Subsection shall be punishable as a Class 3 misdemeanor.
(c)
It shall be unlawful for any person to shoot or hunt with a gun on any public school ground or any public park or on any area within 100 yards of any public school ground or public park. It shall be unlawful for any person who is hunting with a loaded gun to traverse any public school ground or public park or to be within 100 yards from any such school ground or park. A violation of this Subsection shall be punishable as a Class 4 misdemeanor. This Subsection shall not prohibit either (i) the lawful possession of a firearm when such firearm is carried for purposes of personal safety or (ii) the lawful possession of a firearm on a public highway within 100 yards of any public school ground or public park. Nothing in this Subsection shall apply to: (i) recreational shooting on gun ranges at any public school operated by or with the approval of that school; (ii) recreational shooting on gun ranges at any public park operated by or with the approval of the owner of the park; (iii) shooting of a starting pistol at an athletic event on any public school grounds or public park and which is conducted with the approval granted by the owner of that school or park property; or (iv) lands within a national or state park or forest, or wildlife management area.
(d)
It shall be unlawful for any person to hunt with a shotgun loaded with slugs. A violation of this Subsection shall be punishable as a Class 3 misdemeanor.
(e)
Except for those persons who are on a parcel of land that is registered in accordance with Section 6-1-3 and who hunt with shotguns loaded with multiple ball shot, it shall be unlawful for any person to hunt with a firearm which has a barrel caliber larger than a nominal 0.224 inches or to hunt with a gun and ammunition combination having a muzzle energy greater than a .22 caliber rimfire cartridge. A violation of this Subsection shall be punishable as a Class 3 misdemeanor.
(f)
It shall be unlawful for any person to discharge any gun from or across any highway, sidewalk or any public land except on a properly constructed target range.
(g)
Notwithstanding the provisions of Subsections (a) through (f) of this Section, the following acts shall not be violations of this Section:
(1)
Hunting with a shotgun, when such shotgun is loaded entirely with ammunition consisting of multiple ball shot on a parcel of land for which the land owners, tenants in possession or agents of such landowners and tenants have been issued an approved registration pursuant to Section 6-1-3 and when such hunting is carried out in accordance with the terms and conditions of such registration and this Chapter; provided, however, that such parcel of land complies with the requirement to post appropriate signs in accordance with Subsection (a)(3) of this Section.
(2)
Recreational shooting with any gun by any person who has an approved registration from the Chief of Police and who is shooting on a parcel of land in accordance with that registration.
(3)
Shooting or discharge of any gun upon a lawful target, trap or skeet range, or hunting preserve, when such shooting is in accordance with the provisions of any approved registration.
(4)
Shooting or discharge of any gun by any law enforcement officer acting in the performance of the duties of a law enforcement agency. For the purposes of this Section the term "law enforcement officer" includes any person defined as a law enforcement officer pursuant to Virginia Code § 9.1-101 and any animal control officer acting in the performance of his or her duty.
(5)
Discharge of any gun in an entirely indoor target range, provided that adequate provisions are made to retain within the structure all projectiles discharged.
(6)
Discharge of any gun for the purpose of protecting any person from death or great bodily harm.
(7)
Discharge of any firearm or starting pistol loaded with a blank cartridge, or other ammunition, not resulting in the expulsion of a projectile or projectiles.
(8)
Discharge of any gun pursuant (i) to an approved registration issued by the Chief of Police or (ii) pursuant to a permit issued in accordance with Virginia Code § 29.1-529 and with an approved registration issued by the Chief of Police, if the discharge is on a parcel of land that contains at least five acres and is zoned for agricultural use; or (iii) pursuant to authorization issued in accordance with 4 VAC 15-40-240 by the Director of the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries.
(9)
Shooting or discharge of a gun by any representative of the Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries in the performance of duty for scientific collection or wildlife management purposes. (5-19-60, § 2; 9-14-60; 9-5-62; 9-7-66; 10-26-66; 6-25-69; 8-4-71; 1961 Code, § 28-2; 2-74-28; 8-83-6; 43-93-6, § 1; 21-94-6; 39-96-6, § 1; 24-04-6.)
Of course, negligent discharge or public endangerment laws apply indoors as well, so I'd think a good backstop and reasonable measures to protect penetration of basement windows would be expected. Offhand, I don't think that popping off 10 rounds of .22 every so often is going to create a health hazard as to smoke.
Section 6-1-2. - Hunting or discharge of firearms in certain places prohibited; exceptions.
(a)
It shall be unlawful for any person to shoot any gun in any areas of the County which are so heavily populated as to make such conduct dangerous. Except as otherwise provided herein, it shall be unlawful to discharge any gun:
(1)
In all areas of the County except those areas which are exempted in accordance with Appendix J to the Fairfax County Code;
(2)
On any lot of real property containing less than twenty acres; and
(3)
On any parcel of land which is not posted with signs giving reasonable notice that guns are in use on that parcel of land and that no trespassing is allowed. Such signs shall be placed where they can reasonably be seen. However, if firearms are in use on only a portion of any parcel of land which meets the acreage and other requirements of the term "parcel of land," as defined by Section 6-1-1, then only that portion of that parcel of land on which firearms are used shall be posted with signs.
(b)
It shall be unlawful for any person to hunt with a gun any bird or game animal on or within 100 yards from any primary or secondary highway. A violation of this Subsection shall be punishable as a Class 3 misdemeanor.
(c)
It shall be unlawful for any person to shoot or hunt with a gun on any public school ground or any public park or on any area within 100 yards of any public school ground or public park. It shall be unlawful for any person who is hunting with a loaded gun to traverse any public school ground or public park or to be within 100 yards from any such school ground or park. A violation of this Subsection shall be punishable as a Class 4 misdemeanor. This Subsection shall not prohibit either (i) the lawful possession of a firearm when such firearm is carried for purposes of personal safety or (ii) the lawful possession of a firearm on a public highway within 100 yards of any public school ground or public park. Nothing in this Subsection shall apply to: (i) recreational shooting on gun ranges at any public school operated by or with the approval of that school; (ii) recreational shooting on gun ranges at any public park operated by or with the approval of the owner of the park; (iii) shooting of a starting pistol at an athletic event on any public school grounds or public park and which is conducted with the approval granted by the owner of that school or park property; or (iv) lands within a national or state park or forest, or wildlife management area.
(d)
It shall be unlawful for any person to hunt with a shotgun loaded with slugs. A violation of this Subsection shall be punishable as a Class 3 misdemeanor.
(e)
Except for those persons who are on a parcel of land that is registered in accordance with Section 6-1-3 and who hunt with shotguns loaded with multiple ball shot, it shall be unlawful for any person to hunt with a firearm which has a barrel caliber larger than a nominal 0.224 inches or to hunt with a gun and ammunition combination having a muzzle energy greater than a .22 caliber rimfire cartridge. A violation of this Subsection shall be punishable as a Class 3 misdemeanor.
(f)
It shall be unlawful for any person to discharge any gun from or across any highway, sidewalk or any public land except on a properly constructed target range.
(g)
Notwithstanding the provisions of Subsections (a) through (f) of this Section, the following acts shall not be violations of this Section:
(1)
Hunting with a shotgun, when such shotgun is loaded entirely with ammunition consisting of multiple ball shot on a parcel of land for which the land owners, tenants in possession or agents of such landowners and tenants have been issued an approved registration pursuant to Section 6-1-3 and when such hunting is carried out in accordance with the terms and conditions of such registration and this Chapter; provided, however, that such parcel of land complies with the requirement to post appropriate signs in accordance with Subsection (a)(3) of this Section.
(2)
Recreational shooting with any gun by any person who has an approved registration from the Chief of Police and who is shooting on a parcel of land in accordance with that registration.
(3)
Shooting or discharge of any gun upon a lawful target, trap or skeet range, or hunting preserve, when such shooting is in accordance with the provisions of any approved registration.
(4)
Shooting or discharge of any gun by any law enforcement officer acting in the performance of the duties of a law enforcement agency. For the purposes of this Section the term "law enforcement officer" includes any person defined as a law enforcement officer pursuant to Virginia Code § 9.1-101 and any animal control officer acting in the performance of his or her duty.
(5)
Discharge of any gun in an entirely indoor target range, provided that adequate provisions are made to retain within the structure all projectiles discharged.
(6)
Discharge of any gun for the purpose of protecting any person from death or great bodily harm.
(7)
Discharge of any firearm or starting pistol loaded with a blank cartridge, or other ammunition, not resulting in the expulsion of a projectile or projectiles.
(8)
Discharge of any gun pursuant (i) to an approved registration issued by the Chief of Police or (ii) pursuant to a permit issued in accordance with Virginia Code § 29.1-529 and with an approved registration issued by the Chief of Police, if the discharge is on a parcel of land that contains at least five acres and is zoned for agricultural use; or (iii) pursuant to authorization issued in accordance with 4 VAC 15-40-240 by the Director of the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries.
(9)
Shooting or discharge of a gun by any representative of the Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries in the performance of duty for scientific collection or wildlife management purposes. (5-19-60, § 2; 9-14-60; 9-5-62; 9-7-66; 10-26-66; 6-25-69; 8-4-71; 1961 Code, § 28-2; 2-74-28; 8-83-6; 43-93-6, § 1; 21-94-6; 39-96-6, § 1; 24-04-6.)
Re: Shooting in your own basement
See section (g)(5) in the county code excerpt above.
Re: Shooting in your own basement
I'm not sure if I'm reading this part right or wrong, but does this mean that as long as the person thinks he's made "adequate provisions" to retain any discharged projectiles...it's okay?Retsoc wrote:See section (g)(5) in the county code excerpt above.
Re: Shooting in your own basement
I was watching CMT Cribs one day and John Rich ( Big and Rich) had a range in his basement. Then again his basement was bigger than my house. 
Re: Shooting in your own basement
Probably more along the lines if the bullets do not exit the building, you are OK.YuDanJa wrote:I'm not sure if I'm reading this part right or wrong, but does this mean that as long as the person thinks he's made "adequate provisions" to retain any discharged projectiles...it's okay?Retsoc wrote:See section (g)(5) in the county code excerpt above.
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Jakeiscrazy
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Re: Shooting in your own basement
Does he have a backstop?: If he doesn't then he's putting holes in cinder blocks so I would think he wouldn't want to do that.
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”
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Re: Shooting in your own basement
Kind of...it doesn't cover the whole wall; just the area he shoots at. I can see there were a few mishaps because there are some chips here and there on the cinder blocks.Jakeiscrazy wrote:Does he have a backstop?: If he doesn't then he's putting holes in cinder blocks so I would think he wouldn't want to do that.
Re: Shooting in your own basement
He'd better hope when he goes to sell the house no one does a lead check down there.
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Jakeiscrazy
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Re: Shooting in your own basement
Well, if it's a basement then even if it hits a cinder block it should just travel thru and be hit nothing but dirt. The only real problem would be making sure the muzzle is pointed down not up as there are people upstairs.YuDanJa wrote:Kind of...it doesn't cover the whole wall; just the area he shoots at. I can see there were a few mishaps because there are some chips here and there on the cinder blocks.Jakeiscrazy wrote:Does he have a backstop?: If he doesn't then he's putting holes in cinder blocks so I would think he wouldn't want to do that.
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”
-Winston Churchill
-Winston Churchill
Re: Shooting in your own basement
I foresee basement flooding and critter infestations...Jakeiscrazy wrote:Well, if it's a basement then even if it hits a cinder block it should just travel thru and be hit nothing but dirt.
Re: Shooting in your own basement
That is the real problem, actually. He's got (thin) steel sheets up on the ceiling, but it doesn't cover the entire ceiling. The slightest mishap and a bullet could penetrate to the next floor, but he doesn't think that's possible. Anyway, he expresses his sincere appreciation for my concern, followed by his comment that I worry too much, and then rests his case with infinite "What if...?" situations (like car accidents, slipping and falling, etc.).Jakeiscrazy wrote:The only real problem would be making sure the muzzle is pointed down not up as there are people upstairs.
Well, I guess I can only wish him the best to never have accidents.
Re: Shooting in your own basement
I have a couple of old comic book style publications from the 50's that were given out by gun dealers. Found them on e-bay a few years ago when looking for an old owners manual. Targeted toward kids/young adults, and focused on safety, mostly with .22 rifles. In one issue, it has a narrative with pictures on how to build a basement shooting range. It's a large box with angled steel plate on the back and a sand trap at the bottom. Looked like a do-able home project. Just not for me. 
BYW, you can still find these on eBay.
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Jakeiscrazy
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Re: Shooting in your own basement
Well not much more you can do. He will probably be fine. Hopefully he's safe about it.
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”
-Winston Churchill
-Winston Churchill
Re: Shooting in your own basement
it probably wouldn't take a very thick piece of steel to stop a .22 round, especially if the round hit it at an angle, the metal would in effect be thicker it the path the bullet was headed in. If you want to test the theory, got to a body shop and buy a messed up body panel and try a couple of rounds shooting at an angle...YuDanJa said:
That is the real problem, actually. He's got (thin) steel sheets up on the ceiling, but it doesn't cover the entire ceiling. The slightest mishap and a bullet could penetrate to the next floor
You just have to ask yourself, is he telling you the truth based on knowledge and experience or spreading internet myths?
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SELFDEFENSE
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Re: Shooting in your own basement
Shooting in your own basement
Only by accident
Only by accident
Re: Shooting in your own basement
Now I have to dig a basement so I can have an indoor range. Wife gets ticked when I shoot off the front porch or open the patio door and let loose. I really can't see what a little brass bouncing off the walls is gonna hurt.
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Jakeiscrazy
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Re: Shooting in your own basement
Yeah, If it's just .22 then could do it with 1/4 inch metal if not less. Maybe recommend thatit probably wouldn't take a very thick piece of steel to stop a .22 round, especially if the round hit it at an angle, the metal would in effect be thicker it the path the bullet was headed in. If you want to test the theory, got to a body shop and buy a messed up body panel and try a couple of rounds shooting at an angle...
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”
-Winston Churchill
-Winston Churchill