Why are some gun owners afraid of permitless concealed carry

[OakRidgeStars]

Why are some gun owners afraid of permitless concealed carry?

September 22nd, 2010 11:20 am ET
By David Codrea, Gun Rights Examiner

"State Rep. Mike Harmon, a Republican candidate for lieutenant governor, said Monday that he plans to introduce legislation during the 2011 General Assembly to allow Kentuckians to carry concealed weapons without a permit," Stephenie Steitzer of The Courier-Journal tells us.

Naturally, professional "Only Ones" like Jerry Wagner, executive director of the Kentucky Sheriffs Association, are agin' it, despite the model having successfully worked in Vermont for years, and more recently in Alaska and now Arizona. And despite the number of states where peaceable open carry without permits is a demonstrable reality...

So are some gun owners, opposed that is, including those representing themselves to be "gun rights" advocates. I saw the following response to this story on an NRA-related gun forum...

Read more here: http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-in-n ... aled-carry

[gunderwood]

The state has always been afraid of anything it can't control. There are a lot of people who have bought in the the idea that unless the government regulates something it can't function properly. The people have gotten so use to the government being in every part of their lives that they are genuinely scared of what *might* happen if the government isn't involved.

Fear of the unknown.

[Drumstix61]

Wow,

fear of the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution...


"Inalienable Rights"...


I'm just going to fall in line behind Gunderwood's thoughts on this.

Good post Oakridge.

[jaywade]

it's the fear of the unkown masses that most of us think are just plain stupid

doubt me??

how many stupid people have you watched at a public range?
how many times have you seen someone do something you just can't explain w/ either logic or reason

many feel that having some sort of trainning required is a good idea to counteract these stupid people

me I don't care one way or another.. no matter how much trainning you give people bad things will still happen, I've see cops do things just as stupid w/ a firearm as people that had never picked up a gun before, it's not uncommon for service men to have mishaps w/ firearms in training

[allingeneral]

I had a discussion with a guy today at the gun show about concealed carry classes and the fact that no weapons handling is required. He had the idea that one should have to "qualify" with a specific type of firearm before being allowed to carry it. For instance, qualify with a revolver to carry a revolver - if you want to carry a semi-auto, you have to qualify with a semi-auto. I told him that I thought he was being too restrictive and that any restriction of that sort would "lead down the slippery slope". For someone who had his CHP, I was a little surprised by his stance.

I agree that no matter how much or how little training my be required, there will always be accidents. There will always be those who took the training, but don't heed a word of it. There will be those who may pass an exam, but are too dim-witted to put any of it to practice in the real world. Then, there will be those instances, where every bit of caution is used, every rule is followed, and an accident will happen because of human error.

How much "training" did you get before you jumped into the driver's seat of your first automobile? Did you have to train in a front wheel drive 4-cylinder or a rear wheel drive V8? Do you follow every rule, every time? Do you think that yours or others' lives are in danger at any time while you're driving? Probably not, but there are plenty of drivers out there who put their lives on the line (and yours!) every time they put their car into gear.

[Diomed]

Stockholm syndrome.

[cigarmanva]

many support the idea, few support the practice

[Riana]

I get questions all the time at work about how to get a CHP, and (permitless) open carry. I tell people (even those buying their first gun), that while they can legally holster up and walk out the door with their new hardware, I heartily recommend a training class or two - even if they don't intend to get a CHP right away - and some range time.

Is it smart? Yes. Do I think it should be a requirement? No. If VA had permitless carry, would I say the same things? Yes.

It's all about common sense (which Big Brother doesn't want us to use/have). I believe that if you intend to be able to use a tool to defend yourself, you'd better know how to use it.

[zephyp]

Its amazing how loudly we scream about our second amendment rights yet acquiesce on issues like:

- requiring training to carry
- laws governing who can acquire firearms
- no loaded carry in gun shows
- no loaded carry in our favorite gun store
- online training insufficient
- etc, etc, etc

Not promoting or advocating any of these, just sayin...

[VBshooter]

For some, the idea of Constitutional carry is actually to much freedom..There is a very large segment of our population that has become so ingrained with Government regualtion that it not being there is like not having a security blanket,,,,Fear of reprisal from Uncle Brother has made many a would be free spirit become a paper signing maniac that needs proof and documentation for every little thing...IMHO all the current laws are in some manner or another infringements to be removed. Sadly it takes a trip to the SCOTUS to get an issue in the light and address where it is wrong.

[zephyp]

For some, the idea of Constitutional carry is actually to much freedom..There is a very large segment of our population that has become so ingrained with Government regualtion that it not being there is like not having a security blanket,,,,Fear of reprisal from Uncle Brother has made many a would be free spirit become a paper signing maniac that needs proof and documentation for every little thing...IMHO all the current laws are in some manner or another infringements to be removed. Sadly it takes a trip to the SCOTUS to get an issue in the light and address where it is wrong.

Many gun owners included...and me included...how many of us feel good with a law that says felons cant buy or posses guns...and again, not being anti or pro just saying and giving a for instance.

We have sat back for years and allowed our rights to become encumbered by laws, some foolish...

[chfaunce]

I'm not sure why gun owners would be scared of permitless CC than they would be of permitless OC. That seems ridiculous. Maybe they're not as scared of permitless CC as they are scared of losing some sort of "I more special than you because I have a CHP" feeling. Carry is carry. I don't trust anyone more or less who's carrying open versus concealed. Either have a permit to carry, or don't require a permit to carry (I'd prefer the latter, of course)- I simply don't see how carrying in open view versus under a shirt or jacket having any *real* bearing on things.

Frankly, I just think that the CHP is a way for the state to collect $50 off of us permit holders every 5 years. And for that, I don't see permitless CC being a reality any time soon.

[VBshooter]

The felon law is at best a mere inconvenience to a felon in search of a gun. We are all aware of that I;m sure... There are IMHO some in the gun hobby that would feel better with more gevernment interference and some with much less.,The guvment in its quest to regulate everything that can be political has IMHO gone too far in some its restrictions and reasons to take a a persons Constitutional right to a firearm. However finding that healthy balance is Catch 22 every time,,,Some like the law ,others hate it ,.. Myself I would love to see Constiutional Carry come to VA,, But that;s me , Iam sure there are others that don;t like the idea at all and have their reasons... You are very correct that WE have let this stuff happen and as of late it;s almost as if we just got hit in the head and woke up to that fact..THe antis are being more diligent and underhanded than ever and ther is no end in sight,,There will always be the liberal gun hater that thinks Uncle can and should regulate behavior of gun owners,,,,, Ol Mr Bloomberg has just stepped up his new "Survey " that according to him shows how many guns used in crimes originate from only 10 states,,, The ones in his opinion that have the laxest gun laws,,Funny how it always coincides with election years,,,,,

[chfaunce]

Ahhh, yes, Bloomberg - still proving the well-known fact that some statistically small percentage of the general population will break the law. Shocker. FSM help us if we applied Bloomberg logic to everything. I mean, beer and automobiles would be banned, too. Gee, someone could have too much to drink and then get behind the wheel of their car and kill someone. We should ban booze (oh, wait, we tried that - failed miserably I think?) and cars.

[CowboyT]

Bloomberg...logic...in the same sentence?

[VBshooter]

The problem with him is, he;s rich enough and just stupid enough to actually cause trouble... we've seen the ends he'll go to make something up that other fools can rally behind..And even sadder there are other clowns riding in his buggy that think they;re right...Him and Soros have a problem in the fact that they want to control lives simply because they think they are entitled to do it.... Both need to be put on the shelf and be informed that silence is indeed golden.

[chfaunce]

And in other news, it has been revealed yet again that Bloomberg is a politician... There are lots of fools out there who will rally behind a lot of things, ya' know.

[NickW]

How much "training" did you get before you jumped into the driver's seat of your first automobile? Did you have to train in a front wheel drive 4-cylinder or a rear wheel drive V8? Do you follow every rule, every time? Do you think that yours or others' lives are in danger at any time while you're driving? Probably not, but there are plenty of drivers out there who put their lives on the line (and yours!) every time they put their car into gear.

Good analogy and a very tough subject, I often think of this subject and I don’t have any easy answers; therefore, how many of us would just toss their car keys to their 15 year old son/daughter and send them down I95 without any instruction on how to drive a car? Conversely, would you hand over your semi-auto to your son/daughter without any instruction what-so-ever? Vermont and Alaska are rural states were using firearms is part of everyday life engrained into the culture, they are trained/instructed by their elders and their combined populations are half of Tidewater alone I don’t think you can compare them to urban America.

I cringe at the thought of SOME people without any prior weapons knowledge/training carrying a firearm. Does this mean I disagree with permit-less carry; not necessarily, Government should not be in our lives to the extent that it is; yet, be honest, everyone reading this thread has met someone who they would have grave doubts about giving firearms to and sending on their way. I was at a gun show in Va. Beach several years ago, listening in on a conversation at one of the big tables between a dealer and a customer. The customer was a middle aged female school teacher who had never held a weapon in her life; she wanted a gun to carry in her purse, just in case. The dealer respectfully and kindly showed her how to work a revolver but, she had trouble grasping the SA/DA concept, or loading it for that matter, no matter how hard the Dealer tried and he had other customer waiting, so he went for the lowest common denominator “Just point and pull the trigger Miss.” In the end, he told her that he thought she should take a course before he sold her a weapon, he told her he would because it was her right and he had to, after all he was in business, but he thought it a bad idea until she had taken a cc course, so he directed her to the cc both so she could find out where to take a course. Was the dealer violating her rights by talking her out of buying the weapon, was he a responsible business man or a poor one for missing a sale? An argument can be made for all three. It’s a precarious act of balancing the individual’s rights with that of society as a whole. Great topic!

[Mindflayer]

I say this with all seriousness - there are people out there I do not trust with garden tools around me. That said, they have a right to buy them, and I have a right to tell them, "Hey, man, you don't swing a pickaxe like a baseball bat."

[chfaunce]

I certainly would not trust some people with garden tools:



I know, I know... fashion axes. WTF. No, seriously, WTF?!