Court Upholds Expulsion of Student Who Opposes Homosexuality

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Court Upholds Expulsion of Student Who Opposes Homosexuality

Post by TheGodfather »

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/28/co ... sexuality/

http://archive.afa.net/Petitions/Issuedetail.asp?id=378
A federal judge has ruled in favor of a public university that removed a Christian student from its graduate program in school counseling over her belief that homosexuality is morally wrong. Monday's ruling, according to Julea Ward's attorneys, could result in Christian students across the country being expelled from public university for similar views.

“It’s a very dangerous precedent,” Jeremy Tedesco, legal counsel for the conservative Alliance Defense Fund, told FOX News Radio. “The ruling doesn’t say that explicitly, but that’s what is going to happen.”

U.S. District Judge George Caram Steeh dismissed Ward’s lawsuit against Eastern Michigan University. She was removed from the school’s counseling program last year because she refused to counsel homosexual clients.

The university contended she violated school policy and the American Counseling Association code of ethics.

“Christian students shouldn’t be expelled for holding to and abiding by their beliefs,” said ADF senior counsel David French. “To reach its decision, the court had to do something that’s never been done in federal court: uphold an extremely broad and vague university speech code.”

Eastern Michigan University hailed the decision.

“We are pleased that the court has upheld our position in this matter,” EMU spokesman Walter Kraft said in a written statement. “Julea Ward was not discriminated against because of her religion. To the contrary, Eastern Michigan is deeply committed to the education of our students and welcomes individuals from diverse backgrounds into our community.”

In his 48-page opinion, Judge Steeh said the university had a rational basis for adopting the ACA Code of Ethics.

“Furthermore, the university had a rational basis for requiring students to counsel clients without imposing their personal values,” he wrote in a portion of his ruling posted by The Detroit News. “In the case of Ms. Ward, the university determined that she would never change her behavior and would consistently refuse to counsel clients on matters with which she was personally opposed due to her religious beliefs – including homosexual relationships.”

Ward’s attorneys claim the university told her she would only be allowed to remain in the program if she went through a “remediation” program so that she could “see the error of her ways” and change her belief system about homosexuality.

The case is similar to a lawsuit the ADF filed against Augusta State University in Georgia. Counseling student Jennifer Keeton was allegedly told to stop sharing her Christian beliefs in order to graduate.

Keeton's lawsuit alleged that she was told to undergo a reeducation program and attend “diversity sensitivity training.”

University officials declined to comment on specifics of the lawsuit but released a statement to FOX News that said Augusta State does not discriminate on the basis of students’ moral, religious, political or personal beliefs.

Tedesco said both cases should be a warning to Christians attending public colleges and universities.

“Public universities are imposing the ideological stances of private groups on their students,” he said. “If you don’t comply, you will be kicked out. It’s scary stuff and it’s not a difficult thing to see what’s coming down the pike.”

The Alliance Defense Fund told FOX News it will appeal the ruling.
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Re: Court Upholds Expulsion of Student Who Opposes Homosexuality

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Entirely conceivable, though the ultimate outcome seems a little harsh. It was a public university, and her actions were found to be discriminatory, which I think can be agreed upon. Discrimination, as we know, is not always racial. Discrimination can be grounds for dismissal.

If, as a Christian, she disagreed with homosexuality to such an extent, perhaps she should have enrolled in a Christian university, where her beliefs would have been better aligned. Though, if she was in fact a Christian, I find the whole situation ironic as it's my understanding that Christ's teachings would not have supported such intolerance. I guess everyone has their own Jesus. :roll: See, this kind of thing is why some people have such a problem with religion. The world could use more fruits of the Word, and fewer religious nuts. Might be a better place!
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Re: Court Upholds Expulsion of Student Who Opposes Homosexuality

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chfaunce wrote:Entirely conceivable, though the ultimate outcome seems a little harsh. It was a public university, and her actions were found to be discriminatory, which I think can be agreed upon. Discrimination, as we know, is not always racial. Discrimination can be grounds for dismissal.
Michael, She is being expelled from a public school for her RELIGIOUS BELIEFS. That is NOT grounds for expulsion and is a clear violation of the US Constitution. The Constitution clearly guarantees Freedom Of Religion not freedom from religion. The school AND the judge both violated her basic rights.
chfaunce wrote:If, as a Christian, she disagreed with homosexuality to such an extent, perhaps she should have enrolled in a Christian university, where her beliefs would have been better aligned.
Why should she need to go anywhere else? This is a PUBLIC school. She has a right to her beliefs in any school.
chfaunce wrote:Though, if she was in fact a Christian, I find the whole situation ironic as it's my understanding that Christ's teachings would not have supported such intolerance.
There is only ONE Jesus. (You'll soon find that out on Judgement Day.) And He has made it very clear that homosexuality IS a sin and they will not enter the kingdom of heaven. (Same as liars, adulterers, murders, ect...)

BTW, why are YOU so intolerant of HER beliefs? Sounds to me like you believe in a double standard. Doh! :doh:
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Re: Court Upholds Expulsion of Student Who Opposes Homosexuality

Post by totes6 »

Here we see the Constitution being eroded again on PUBLIC universities. First it was "We don't allow guns on campus for student safety." Well the people who argued it was a 2nd amendment right since it was a public University lost. Now the 1st amendment right is being thrown down the tubes too. If she believes that she should not counsel homosexuals based on her religion then so be it. I bet there are enough other counselors that will do it. While I do no agree that anyone should be turned away, just because my opinion differs from hers does not mean she should be thrown out from the program. That was the whole basis of the first amendment in the Bill of Rights. The Founders new that there would be very different ideas and opinions around religion especially, but other ideals as well. And they knew well enough that the Government needs to keep it's gloves away from free speech. I do not see how her refusing to counsel a homosexual is hurting the individual. Only when there has been harm done by one individual to another is the government supposed to step in.

It is time for those Colleges and Universities to either give up their government funding or SHUT UP. If they get the funds from MY TAX DOLLARS then they need to be restricted by the constitution as well. If they feel so strongly about their ideals then let them become a private institution and see how well they fair.
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Re: Court Upholds Expulsion of Student Who Opposes Homosexuality

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That is a horrid and dangerous ruling. It further grants universities & colleges feifdom rights. They might as well start building high walls & fly pennents from the ramparts. I agree with totes6 - either live by the Constitution (and all its warts) or give up the government funding. Besides, in real life she would be completely allowed to decline cases if she had a private practice.

@Godfather - Please take this next question in the light of knowledge seeking and not in the light of trolling or poking a hornet's nest. I went through seven long years of Episcopalian school and, I can truly say, had to read the Good Book from cover to cover (OK - except for that part in Genesis where we had to go thru all the who-begat-who stuff). More recently, in 2005, went through Baptismal Classes. I can recall none of Jesus' teaching that condemned homosexuals. So, could yop vector me in to that passage? Thanks.
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Re: Court Upholds Expulsion of Student Who Opposes Homosexuality

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KaosDad wrote:@Godfather - Please take this next question in the light of knowledge seeking and not in the light of trolling or poking a hornet's nest. I went through seven long years of Episcopalian school and, I can truly say, had to read the Good Book from cover to cover (OK - except for that part in Genesis where we had to go thru all the who-begat-who stuff). More recently, in 2005, went through Baptismal Classes. I can recall none of Jesus' teaching that condemned homosexuals. So, could yop vector me in to that passage? Thanks.
If you are wanting a specific quote from the time Jesus was on earth, there is no record of it - but there is no need for it. Jesus' existence didn't begin in the stable in Bethlehem. I AM existed long before that and through multiple godly men, He made things very clear on this issue (see below). Don't forget that many of these scriptures were already available during Christ's time on earth and Jesus acknowledged that they were (and still are) the Word of God.

Leviticus 18:22 - You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.

Leviticus 20:13 - If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.

Romans 1:26-27 - For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

I Corinthians 6:9 - Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

I Timothy 1:8-11 - "But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted."

Jude 1:6-7 - And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
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Re: Court Upholds Expulsion of Student Who Opposes Homosexuality

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TheGodfather wrote:
Michael, She is being expelled from a public school for her RELIGIOUS BELIEFS. That is NOT grounds for expulsion and is a clear violation of the US Constitution. The Constitution clearly guarantees Freedom Of Religion not freedom from religion. The school AND the judge both violated her basic rights.
No, she was not expelled because of her religious beliefs. She was expelled because she was enrolled as a graduate student in a public school with a focus on student counselling, and she openly discriminated against homosexual students because of their lifestyle. If she was expelled soley on her Christian belief, logic would suggest then that all Christians would be expelled. The same thing would have happened, say, if she had discriminated against black people, or Jews, or Mexicans. Her Constitutional rights were not violated. Nobody infringed upon her right to speak freely, or her freedom of religion.

Yes, she has her right to her religion in any school. No, she does not have the right to discriminate against others.

Discrimination is a horrid and dangerous thing.

And KaosDad, you're absolutely correct. If this were here private practice, she would have had the right to do anything she'd wished. But, this was a public institution.

I'm not going to debate Biblical passages. Religion was created by man, the Bible was written by man. And for the record, Godfather:

* If you have the level of maturity of an adult, you can call me Craig. That's my name. It's in my profile.
* I've made it known that I do not subscribe to a belief in God. This does not mean that I don't accept other people have different beliefs. This does not mean that I am intolerant of those who practice one religion or another. And I certainly don't go around damning others to hell on judgement day simply because their beliefs differ from mine.
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Re: Court Upholds Expulsion of Student Who Opposes Homosexuality

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chfaunce wrote: No, she was not expelled because of her religious beliefs. She was expelled because she was enrolled as a graduate student in a public school with a focus on student counselling, and she openly discriminated against homosexual students because of their lifestyle. If she was expelled soley on her Christian belief, logic would suggest then that all Christians would be expelled. The same thing would have happened, say, if she had discriminated against black people, or Jews, or Mexicans. Her Constitutional rights were not violated. Nobody infringed upon her right to speak freely, or her freedom of religion.
What's funny, Michael, is that the University even disagrees with you. The university told her she would only be allowed to remain in the program if she went through a “remediation” program so that she could “see the error of her ways” and change her belief system about homosexuality.

Her case is no different than if a muslim refused to do a medical procedure on a pig in a public medical school. If a muslim ever refused to do this, would they be expelled? Absolutely not.
chfaunce wrote:If you have the level of maturity of an adult, you can call me Craig. That's my name. It's in my profile.
Wow, Michael. I didn't know that you were Obama's "maturity" czar. Did anyone ever tell you that the more you talk, the more you sound like Michael Moore?
chfaunce wrote:This does not mean that I am intolerant of those who practice one religion or another.
You are completely intolerant in this very discussion! :hysterical:

How dare you be intolerant of this girl's beliefs that homosexuality is wrong and immoral!

("Tolerant" people are so funny. Little do they realize that the more they push their "tolerance" on others, the more intolerant they become.) :whistle:
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Re: Court Upholds Expulsion of Student Who Opposes Homosexuality

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So, are you always this big of a dolt, or are you trying extra hard today?

I sincerely hope that you're not representative of the overall VGOF population. You certainly do live up to the gun totin' Bible clingin' stereotype.
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Re: Court Upholds Expulsion of Student Who Opposes Homosexuality

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:popcorn: I'm just enjoying the show...

KaosDad, forget poking the hornets nest. Grab the biggest stick you can find and take a big ol swing, gunderwood style!
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Re: Court Upholds Expulsion of Student Who Opposes Homosexuality

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chfaunce wrote:So, are you always this big of a dolt, or are you trying extra hard today?

I sincerely hope that you're not representative of the overall VGOF population. You certainly do live up to the gun totin' Bible clingin' stereotype.
Oh, so now you're being intolerant of MY views?!!! :doh: :hysterical:
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Re: Court Upholds Expulsion of Student Who Opposes Homosexuality

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TheGodfather wrote:
chfaunce wrote:So, are you always this big of a dolt, or are you trying extra hard today?

I sincerely hope that you're not representative of the overall VGOF population. You certainly do live up to the gun totin' Bible clingin' stereotype.
Oh, so now you're being intolerant of MY views?!!! :doh: :hysterical:
@TheGodfather I guess Obama's got you pegged...clinging to your AK47 and Bible. How do you reconcile your communist "property" and religious views?


/sarcasm
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Re: Court Upholds Expulsion of Student Who Opposes Homosexuality

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gunderwood wrote: @TheGodfather I guess Obama's got you pegged...clinging to your AK47 and Bible. How do you reconcile your communist "property" and religious views?

/sarcasm
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Re: Court Upholds Expulsion of Student Who Opposes Homosexuality

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TheGodfather wrote:
chfaunce wrote:So, are you always this big of a dolt, or are you trying extra hard today?

I sincerely hope that you're not representative of the overall VGOF population. You certainly do live up to the gun totin' Bible clingin' stereotype.
Oh, so now you're being intolerant of MY views?!!! :doh: :hysterical:
No, just stupidity. Sorry, but everytime you post something like this all it sounds like is:

http://s252.photobucket.com/albums/hh3/ ... =ascending

Now, shhh, the adults are talking.
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Re: Court Upholds Expulsion of Student Who Opposes Homosexuality

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chfaunce wrote:No, just stupidity.
NOW I get it Michael! "Tolerance" isn't for everyone. It's only for religion and views that YOU find acceptable. Very interesting......

Michael I know life is tough for guys like you. Everytime your ideas are met reason and logic, you just can't help but hurl insults in defense. It must be very frustrating to see all of your arguments just disappear into thin air...

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Re: Court Upholds Expulsion of Student Who Opposes Homosexuality

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TheGodfather wrote:
chfaunce wrote:No, just stupidity.
NOW I get it Michael! "Tolerance" isn't for everyone. It's only for religion and views that YOU find acceptable. Very interesting......
You clearly, CLEARLY missed the entire point of the article. And I can CLEARLY see that you're incapable of discussing this in an intelligent, grown-up manner.

Hugs n' kisses,

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Re: Court Upholds Expulsion of Student Who Opposes Homosexuality

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chfaunce wrote: You clearly, CLEARLY missed the entire point of the article. And I can CLEARLY see that you're incapable of discussing this in an intelligent, grown-up manner.

Hugs n' kisses,

Godless Mike
Yet again Michael, you provide empty words, ignore the facts and hurl insults to mask your lack of a defense. Sounds grown up and intelligent to me! :whistle:
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Re: Court Upholds Expulsion of Student Who Opposes Homosexuality

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Debate by YouTube? Well, it's new anyways.

Godfather, thank you for sharing those passages. I can see your point of view.

But why do you keep addressing Craig as "Michael"?
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Re: Court Upholds Expulsion of Student Who Opposes Homosexuality

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KaosDad wrote:Debate by YouTube? Well, it's new anyways.
Not sure who's debating with youtube. Both of my youtube posts have been pure sarcasm - including my entire response to Garrett. Just having fun... :friends:
KaosDad wrote:But why do you keep addressing Craig as "Michael"?
He sounds like some indoctrinated "college" student who just finished watching all of Michael Moore's videos.
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Re: Court Upholds Expulsion of Student Who Opposes Homosexuality

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My turn!
U.S. District Judge George Caram Steeh dismissed Ward’s lawsuit against Eastern Michigan University. She was removed from the school’s counseling program last year because she refused to counsel homosexual clients.
All she did was refuse to counsel clients she didn't want too. Why can anyone force her to provide services to those she doesn't want to? Does a lawyer have to provide their services to a client they don't feel they can adequately represent because of the alleged crime?

The school went to far when it required her to violate her religious beliefs in order to continue in the program. Liberals would be doing a double back-flip if a Muslim religious student was kicked out of the program because the school required they pray to the Christian God and explore Christianity, but refused.
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