Two Tampa Police Officers Killed During Traffic Stop

[BLP1981]

Some of you have probably already seen this but I thought I'd post it for those who haven't.

http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.acti ... 4978336772

[allingeneral]

2 Tampa, Florida Officers Killed During Traffic Stop
June 29, 2010 10:34 AM EDT
by Kimberly Ripley

Two Tampa, Florida police officers were shot and killed early this morning in a routine traffic stop.

According to Tampa Police Chief Jane Castor, "Officer David Curtis had pulled over a vehicle and found its male passenger had an outstanding warrant for minor violations. Officer Jeffrey Kocab responded to back Curtis up, and as they put their Officers David Curtis, left, and Jeffrey Kocab were both 31, according to the Tampa Police Department.

hands on the suspect, the suspect spun around, pulled a firearm and shot both police officers."

Officer Jeffrey Kocab was pronounced dead shortly after the incident at a Tampa hospital. Officer David Curtis has been pronounced dead, however his family wishes to harvest his organs, so he will remain on life support for the next few hours.

Kocab's wife was due to give birth next week. Curtis leaves behind his wife and four sons, ages 9, 6, 5 and 8 months.

"We haven't positively identified a suspect, but we have a very good suspect in this situation, and there's probably a great deal more to it than just that misdemeanor warrant," Castor said.

"This is an unbelievable tragedy for these families, and for the larger family of TPD, and for the larger family of the city of Tampa," Mayor Pam Iorio said. "Our hearts are just breaking."

Officer Kocab was noted as having "outstanding police skills" and moved through his training process at an accelerated rate. He had been with the Tampa Police Department for 14 months. Castor described both officers as "solid police officers and outstanding individuals" who both worked the midnight shift.

Chief Castor told the press that Kocab, was "looking forward to being a father," and Curtis was devoted to his wife and sons.

According to CNN reporters, police were searching for a red 1994 Toyota Camry connected to the shooting and an African-American male and female, McElroy said. The male was described as being in his mid- to late 20s, about 5 feet 10 inches tall and weighing about 150 to 170 pounds. He is thought to be wearing brown shorts, a white T-shirt, a black vest and white sneakers, police said. No detailed description was available on the woman.

Authorities set up a perimeter around the shooting scene and were conducting "an extensive search for evidence," police said. "The search for the suspects extends statewide. The suspects are considered armed and very dangerous."

What a devastating blow to the city of Tampa, and even more so to the families of these fallen officers. I pray the suspects are apprehended and prosecuted. In cases like this, however, I wonder if it ever really feels like justice has been served.

Both Officer Jeffrey Kocab and Officer David Curtis were just 31 years old.

[SgtBill]

God bless and rest in peace my brother's. May the scumbag that took their live's be put down like the piece of crap that he is.
Bill

[wylde007]

I guess that lends credence to the adage that there is no such thing as a "routine" traffic stop.

Maybe putting an end to using these otherwise worthy men as revenuers for the state would cut down on these occurrences?

Blessings and prayers for the families. The widows without husbands and the children without fathers. They will suffer the most and are the least-deserving of such a fate.

[ProShooter]

Maybe putting an end to using these otherwise worthy men as revenuers for the state would cut down on these occurrences?

I don't think that arresting someone on an outstanding warrant equates to them being "revenuers for the state".

[wylde007]

I don't think that arresting someone on an outstanding warrant equates to them being "revenuers for the state".

When did they discover the outstanding warrant, before or after the stop was initiated?

If it was a traffic stop for some revenue-generating infraction (stop sign, speeding, blinker out) then they only found out who (or what) he was after they already stopped him.

Again, no such thing as a "routine" traffic stop.

Apologies if what I said was not presented clearly. The article gave me the impression that the car was pulled over and then discovered that there was a warrant.

[fireman836]

Yes they discovered the BG had outstanding warrants after stopping him for a traffic violation. What the traffic violation was I don't know, it could be as simple as a turn signal out or a hit and run accident. The point is a lot of criminals, drunk drivers, etc. are caught because they were stopped for a traffic violation.

Should the LEO look the other way when a small law is broken? There is no such thing as a routine traffic stop. He just ran a stop sign no big deal. Now tell that to the family in the other car he pulled out in front of thats upside down with the injured family in it. All he was doing was speeding a little and changing lanes too quick. What about the family he ran off the road?

/rant

Now back to the topic I hope they catch the shooter and bury him under the police station! And my prayers go out to the broken families caused by this shooting.

[BLP1981]

The shooter was wanted in Jacksonville for writing bad checks. He was also a convicted felon on parole. It looks like he surrendered to police on July 2. http://www.aolnews.com/crime/article/do ... s/19541001

[wylde007]

There is no such thing as a routine traffic stop.

I believe I covered that sufficiently.

Now tell that to the family in the other car he pulled out in front of that's upside down with the injured family in it. All he was doing was speeding a little and changing lanes too quick. What about the family he ran off the road?

Cite please.

Unless harm comes to another citizen, traffic laws are revenue generation tools. Period.

In many instances they actually COST municipalities revenue in lost man hours and wages - arbitrary speed limits are just the worst of the offenders in this category.

[SgtBill]

There is no such thing as a routine traffic stop.

I believe I covered that sufficiently.

Now tell that to the family in the other car he pulled out in front of that's upside down with the injured family in it. All he was doing was speeding a little and changing lanes too quick. What about the family he ran off the road?

Cite please.

Unless harm comes to another citizen, traffic laws are revenue generation tools. Period.

In many instances they actually COST municipalities revenue in lost man hours and wages - arbitrary speed limits are just the worst of the offenders in this category.

I suppose that you believe that anyone driveing any type of vehicle on any road city/county or state could be trusted to drive in a safe and sound manner and have the vehicle that they drive inspected and keep it in good running order. Someone has to set down rules and regulations for our people to keep to or we would have mass destruction on the highways more then we do now.
How about Insurance who would have it and who would not. I suppose it would be up to the car owner if they wanted to purchase it. The only good side I see to this is the junk yards would be doing a booming business and the Laywers would also be doing a slam dunk business more body parts would become available for transplant and the Hospitals would be full all the time with the Emergency Room's doing a booming business.

Bill

[wylde007]

I suppose that you believe that anyone driveing any type of vehicle on any road city/county or state could be trusted to drive in a safe and sound manner and have the vehicle that they drive inspected and keep it in good running order.

Yes. Anyone driveing [sic] any type of vehicle on any road should be free from harassment from municipal revenuers up to and until they cause harm to another citizen. That is what Libertarian means.

Someone has to set down rules and regulations for our people to keep to or we would have mass destruction on the highways more then we do now.

That's an opinion and largely unsupported by any historical evidence. It is fear and coercion that allows such a mindset to prevail.

How about Insurance who would have it and who would not. I suppose it would be up to the car owner if they wanted to purchase it.

Again. Libertarian. Insurance is the moral equivalent to gambling. You pay money in case something goes wrong, all the while hoping that nothing does go wrong so that your rates don't go up and you never have to use something that you pay hundreds (or thousands) of dollars a year... money that is GONE FOREVER and why? Because it is "the law".

And my job does not depend on people committing crimes to keep me in business. Government did not used to be that way but has become largely so. Why? Because the people have allowed it.

The only good side I see to this is the junk yards would be doing a booming business and the lawyers would also be doing a slam dunk business more body parts would become available for transplant and the Hospitals would be full all the time with the Emergency Rooms doing a booming business.

Again with the speculation. Do you hold that on the premise that laws to protect the people from themselves ("for their own good") are necessary for a civilized society to exist? I contend that they are not.

There are no such thing as "reasonable" gun laws. There is no necessity to preemptively assign penalties to civil acts except to generate revenue. They do not make us safer, they just make governments more money.

You derive job security (or used to) from such laws. As an officer it is your "duty" to enforce laws and investigate crimes. Fine. But I contend no law is broken if harm is not done to another citizen.

That's the Libertarian mindset and I'm not going to abandon it because you need to justify your existence. If you want to keep people safe, that's great. Bully on you. Traffic laws are far-and-away revenue generating tools for municipalities. Virginia was a POSTER CHILD for that very abuse (Abusive Driver Fees) just a few short years ago, if you may recall. Traffic laws don't necessarily make us any safer, just like gun-free zones don't guarantee that someone won't come into a place of business and murder a dozen people before taking his own life.

While that may sound extreme, the Libertarian in me has to oblige my fellow citizens of the opportunity to prove that they have a modicum of personal responsibility and that, given the chance, will make the right decision.

If they don't and they cause me physical harm or damage my property, then you guys may throw the proverbial book at them. Until then, no harm, no foul.

Be well.

[gunderwood]

Do you hold that on the premise that laws to protect the people from themselves ("for their own good") are necessary for a civilized society to exist? I contend that they are not.

I think John Adams had it correct:

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

The point is that laws prescribe punishment and only keep a moral people with hearty character in line. The irony is that a people who have such character don't need it. Is it any wonder that governments the world over can't make this work? Our form of government requires a liberty loving and free people, which are by necessity are the kind of people Adams is referencing. Those people who don't need a nanny state. Chaos doesn't reign in such a society when there isn't big brother either. Our Constitution is a worthless piece of paper without these kind of people.

Restoring the American way of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness starts by rebuilding American character.

The laws don't stop anyone from doing anything. We claim it all the time. Gun laws only prevent law abiding people from owning them. Criminals get one regardless; doesn't matter what the law says.

There are no such thing as "reasonable" gun laws. There is no necessity to preemptively assign penalties to civil acts except to generate revenue. They do not make us safer, they just make governments more money....

Traffic laws are far-and-away revenue generating tools for municipalities. Virginia was a POSTER CHILD for that very abuse (Abusive Driver Fees) just a few short years ago, if you may recall. Traffic laws don't necessarily make us any safer, just like gun-free zones don't guarantee that someone won't come into a place of business and murder a dozen people before taking his own life.

+1

If, in order to avoid anarchy and chaos, a society needs laws to be enforced because harm could happen, rather than actual harm occurring, I would suggest such a society has fundamental character problems which no act of legislation can cure.

[fireman836]

There is no such thing as a routine traffic stop.

I believe I covered that sufficiently.

Now tell that to the family in the other car he pulled out in front of that's upside down with the injured family in it. All he was doing was speeding a little and changing lanes too quick. What about the family he ran off the road?

Cite please.
What would you like me to cite. The minivan we extricated three injured people from at 0300 this morning. How about the call I ran afew years ago where five young men died when the driver lost control fliped the car over on another vehicle killing a child and pinning his mother so bad it took us more than an hour to cut her out.
Unless harm comes to another citizen, traffic laws are revenue generation tools. Period.

In many instances they actually COST municipalities revenue in lost man hours and wages - arbitrary speed limits are just the worst of the offenders in this category.

[gunderwood]

There is no such thing as a routine traffic stop.

I believe I covered that sufficiently.

Now tell that to the family in the other car he pulled out in front of that's upside down with the injured family in it. All he was doing was speeding a little and changing lanes too quick. What about the family he ran off the road?

Cite please.
What would you like me to cite. The minivan we extricated three injured people from at 0300 this morning. How about the call I ran afew years ago where five young men died when the driver lost control fliped the car over on another vehicle killing a child and pinning his mother so bad it took us more than an hour to cut her out.
Unless harm comes to another citizen, traffic laws are revenue generation tools. Period.

In many instances they actually COST municipalities revenue in lost man hours and wages - arbitrary speed limits are just the worst of the offenders in this category.

What? I don't mean to sound callus, but the laws didn't stop these idiots from harming others? So how was the outcome any different? The irony of gun law comparisons should not be lost on anyone here.

When I lived in Germany, years ago, drunk driving was practically unheard of because if you got into a wreak and were drunk, you lost your license for life. No questions ask. That on top of being liable for the accident. Seems to me that is much more effective of a deterrent then our "public safety" laws here. That is what Wylde and I are trying to point out. The "public safety" laws don't actually do anything to increase public safety, but rather are used to generate funds for the state.

[zephyp]

I think John Adams had it correct:

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

Indeed. The law was made for us citizens. The law for the elected and public servants is the Constitution. We as citizens are the benefactors and not responsible for adhering to the Constitution - thats supposed to be the job of our government. Think about it...where in the Constitution does it outline duties of citizens...its ironic and disheartening that prosecutions never seem to be handed down to elected officials who break the law of the Constitution yet they are freely passed to us when we break a "law".

From another perspective and more along line with the point made by gunderwood, laws are made to be followed - not broken. Otherwise, why have them at all...that may require a moment of cogitation for some...