Two new added

[Mindflayer]

I can't believe I've only been shooting a month and I already have 3 firearms. I've added a Ruger SR-556 to the collection.



Also added an XD 9mm Subcompact to go with my XDM 3.8" 9mm. Fired it for the first time this Saturday - a couple of low fliers at first. (The target behind mine is my friend's.) As you can see, I am still learning to shoot!

[gunderwood]

Very nice. Welcome to the addiction.

Just keep telling yourself the following (which are all true) and it will be ok.

1. The government doesn't want me to have them, so I have to get them now.
2. Only freemen may keep and bear arms...I have more than I can carry (let alone use) at once, so I am extra free.
3. Zombies are coming...or at least race riots/economic collapse thanks to the feds.
4. It is a good investment. In 2-5 years I can get more for it used than I paid for it new.
5. Every gun has pros and cons...I need to have lots of options so I can optimize every possible situation.
6. Self defense.
7. Most politicians cry themselves to sleep because I have a black rifle.

[t33j]

Not bad!
There are some pretty good deals on XD guns right now on vaguntrader. It appears that's your thing.

[OakRidgeStars]

7. Most politicians cry themselves to sleep because I have a black rifle.

As well as liberals, progressives and four SCOTUS judges. All the more reason to buy another.

[Unkn0wN]

Nice.... that SR-556 looks a little naked... you need to dress it up a little!

[Mindflayer]

Nice.... that SR-556 looks a little naked... you need to dress it up a little!

Debating on a scope/sight, or just a red dot. Since I will likely be shooting at < 100m, I think the latter makes more sense.

[gregj]

Very nice!!!! Congrats

[gunderwood]

Nice.... that SR-556 looks a little naked... you need to dress it up a little!

Debating on a scope/sight, or just a red dot. Since I will likely be shooting at < 100m, I think the latter makes more sense.

If you are trying to print tiny groups (at least for a piston AR) the only way to go is with a good scope. However, if this is a practical AR and you want shoot steel in a tactical carbine setting, a red dot like the Aimpoint T-1 is awesome. With a 4MOA dot it will be very hard to post better groups than 4MOA (possible if you have the right size/shape of target, but it still won't be to the guns potential).

I've shot some AR10s with 3.5x ACOGs. Awesome battle rifles! Groups at 100 yards struggle to hold 2MOA, but if you call the wind correctly 2MOA or better to 700 yards is easy with surplus ammo. That is with a 16" 308Win too. They could group close to 1MOA, but not generally with those scopes. That doesn't make them bad. They are just optimized for a purpose. Put a big scope on a battle rifle so it is a DMR and you can work wonders at longer ranges, but there is a reason the military doesn't issue everyone a DMR rifle with big glass. They tend to suck at engagements below 300 yards. That is why they issue everyone else with medium power ACOGs, 1-4x variable scopes, Aimpoints, EOTechs, etc.

Decide how you want to use the rifle and then find the scope that fits your needs best.

[CowboyT]

7. Most politicians cry themselves to sleep because I have a black rifle.

As well as liberals, progressives and four SCOTUS judges. All the more reason to buy another.

Not all liberals, I can assure you. I'm not done with my own purchases just yet.

Matter of fact, a true liberal *must* by definition fully support the 2A. If they don't, they're not liberals. Period.

[Mindflayer]

CowboyT - maybe we're more libertarian than liberal?

I've looked at the ACOGs, and they look cool, but I've never shot with one (again, only been shooting 5 weeks!). They are also pricey. I suppose now that I have 3 new firearms, I can slow down on those and save for the accessories. Two handguns and the rifle was a lot of cash in one fell swoop.

I still have not decided what I want to do - shoot long range with a scope or prep it for close-in. Maybe that's an excuse to buy another. Wait, no, gotta save for a scope or red-dot. Than again, that .45 was real nice....

[Unkn0wN]

I still have not decided what I want to do - shoot long range with a scope or prep it for close-in. Maybe that's an excuse to buy another. Wait, no, gotta save for a scope or red-dot. Than again, that .45 was real nice....

And it has started................. it never ends!

[wrt81]

I will have an AR one day. One day...

[gunderwood]

CowboyT - maybe we're more libertarian than liberal?

I've looked at the ACOGs, and they look cool, but I've never shot with one (again, only been shooting 5 weeks!). They are also pricey. I suppose now that I have 3 new firearms, I can slow down on those and save for the accessories. Two handguns and the rifle was a lot of cash in one fell swoop.

I still have not decided what I want to do - shoot long range with a scope or prep it for close-in. Maybe that's an excuse to buy another. Wait, no, gotta save for a scope or red-dot. Than again, that .45 was real nice....

Get a Remington 700 5R in 308Win with a nice precision scope. I personally don't see much reason for a super accurate AR unless you are varmint/coyote hunting. In either case, a 16" barrel piston AR is not the hot ticket for anything beyond 300-400 yards.

[gunderwood]

I will have an AR one day. One day...

Don't wait too long. Between the economy and the administration, social unrest like the LA riots is not far fetched. Having an AR means you likely won't need to use it (like those LA shop keepers). Not having it likely means you will wish you did.

Just my two cents. Let me adjust my

[Mindflayer]

I will have an AR one day. One day...

Don't wait too long. Between the economy and the administration, social unrest like the LA riots is not far fetched. Having an AR means you likely won't need to use it (like those LA shop keepers). Not having it likely means you will wish you did.

Just my two cents. Let me adjust my

Shoot, no need for the In the LA riots, the untold story was that shopkeepers of Asian background were targeted. Being half-Japanese, half-Scots-Irish-AmerIndian means ignorant idiots of every race may come knocking. When social unrest happens, I want to be prepared - part of the reason I got into shooting.

I agree on the red dot. I've been thinking (only so much I can look at this code and Excel and email before a long weekend), and I never get to shoot past 100m. Now, which one....

[grumpyMSG]

I am guessing now you would like some advice on red dot sights since it sounds like you would like to go with one of them. There are 2 manufacturers that are pretty much leading the way and they are Aimpoint and Eotech. Both offer several models that would be great sights as primary sights on an AR15 carbine and with very little practice you would have no trouble engaging targets out to 200 yards with lethal effects and with some practice out to 300+. I am going to stick with writing about the larger sights, not more compact sights that are intended to be backup or secondary sights to a scope that is the primary optic.

I will start with the Aimpoints, you will here them referred to as Comp M2s, M3s and M4s and Comp ML2s, ML3s, ML4s. The difference between the Comp M2 and ML2 is the M2 is night vision compatable, the ML2 is not, other than that, the two look identical. The Comp M2 is the oldest and Comp M4s are the newest. The U.S. Army started using the Comp M2s as the M68 Close Combat Optic around ten years ago and is now issueing the Comp M4 model in the same role. The biggest difference between the Comp M2s and M3s is supposed to be battery life. I carried a Comp M2 in Iraq for 10 months and it got a fresh battery put in it right before I got in theater and it was still in it when I left ten months later. I turned it on when I thought I might need it at some point and turned it off afterward, occasionally I would forget and it would be on for a day or two. The battery both the M2 and M3 us is the 3 Volt Lithium battery type 2L76 or DL1/3N. The Comp M4 is a newer and it runs on a AA battery. The battery life for the M2 is 1000-10,000 hours, the M3s is 10,000-50,000 and the Comp M4s is a mind boggling 70,000 to 80,000 hours according to Aimpoint. To use, they are simple, put the red dot on the target and squeeze the trigger. It doesn't matter where the dot is in the tube. that is where the bullet is going or close to it. The disadvantage to the Aimpoint is the front lens is highly reflective and if you turn up the brightness very bright, the dot is visible from the front. The only time you would want the sight turned up high like that is during bright daylight so that would help reduce that effect. At night you would leave it turned down as low as possible and still pick it up easily. For a defensive weapon the long battery life would be a huge plus. As for the costs, you can find Comp M2s for between $300-400 on the internet, The Comp M3s generally run about $100 more and the Comp M4s are generally between $600-700.

Aimpoints.JPG (15.21 KiB) Viewed 3896 times

Eotech has the older models, the 551, 552, 553 and some newer models the 556, 557 that are Night Vision capable and the 511, 512, 516, 517 that aren't. They also have slightly more compact models, the XPSs. The big difference between the various models of Eotech are the battery type, and the location of the control buttons. The best way to describe the construction of the Eotech is, it functions like a Heads Up Display on an aircraft. The most common reticle pattern in the Eotechs is the dot and circle AKA "Donut of Death". Just like the Aimpoint, where the dot goes, so does the bullet. The advantage to the Donut is it makes it easier to see the dot. It is not uncommon for the Eotechs to be found on a shotgun, they do make shooting a moving target a whole lot easier. They also have a much bigger field of view and it is more like looking through a windshield than through a tube like the Aimpoint. The disadvantages of to the Eotechs compared to the Aimpoint are the battery life, they only get a few hundred hours to 1000 hours on a set of batteries. on some of the really od models they only got around 100 hours on a set of batteries. The other disadvantage, that is really pretty helpful unless you have a need to keep the sight on for more than 8 hours at a stretch is the sight will shut itself off if you don't hit the brightness up or down button. It would probably never be a problem for 99% of people and would be a plus if you left it on and put it away, it would just turn itself off. As for pricing, depending on the model, they can be found for about $350 to $600.

[gunderwood]

Good write up grumpyMSG. I'll add a couple of things.

EOTechs have gotten better, but they still are not as durable as Aimpoints IMHO. The only reason to get an EOTech IMO, is if the larger "windshield" is desirable. Now that Aimpoint has shrunk the M4 tech into the micro T1, this is a non issue unless you have very poor cheek wield. Here's why. These are all 1x optics (both companies offer a 3x magnifier and there are quick flip mounts available). Look through these optics, aim at something and then move your head. The dot or donut will move in the optic, but the dot will still be aiming at the same point on the target. That is the beauty of a 1x red dot. Point and shoot. Keep both eyes open and the dot just floats out there where you are pointing and the optic nearly disappears. The EOTechs have larger FOV so you can move your head around more before you "loose" the red dot. If you practice good technique this is a non issue. So it boils down to this:

1. Aimpoints are left ON for months or years. My T1 is speced at setting 8 of 12 (12 is highest) for 5 years continuous. 8 is bright enough for anything but direct sunlight! Setting 10 of 12 is speced for 10 months continuous. You can't leave an EOTech on like that. For SHTF or home defense (my T1 is on a 12ga shotgun) the optic is always ready. You have to push buttons to get the EOTech on. It isn't much, but it is one more thing to do.

2. The EOTechs are really large. The new "compact" versions are still as large as the Aimpoint Ms. The Aimpoint micros are tiny and lots of people are switching over to them as primary optics for that reason. They offer everything the large scopes do, but in a much smaller package. If you shoot with both eyes open, there is no disadvantage unless you can't keep a cheek wield. If that is the case, no optic is going to help you. You need training.

3. For home defence I doubt your intruder will have night vision. The Aimpoints have a signature, but for anything besides advanced military use it doesn't matter IMO.

[Diomed]

If you're new to shooting, I say get iron sights and learn those before getting into fancy red dots and suchlike gimcracks. Try not to rely so much on failure-prone technology, so that when it fails, you have basic skills to fall back on.

But then I'm old, crotchety, and definitely not hi-speed lo-drag.

[gunderwood]

If you're new to shooting, I say get iron sights and learn those before getting into fancy red dots and suchlike gimcracks. Try not to rely so much on failure-prone technology, so that when it fails, you have basic skills to fall back on.

But then I'm old, crotchety, and definitely not hi-speed lo-drag.

That is why the red dot mounts are designed to co witness with the irons.

[Mindflayer]

Thanks for all the info! My initial question was sort of tongue in cheek, as everyone I ask seems to have strong opinions about what to get. I do appreciate the break down of reasons.

I am deciding between a Comp Mx (M4S for the ridiculous battery life and AA?) and the T1. I was not going to get anything NV-capable until my shooting friends mentioned he is getting some sort of NV gear and training for night shooting....