Here it comes...

[novasig226r]

Mexican president addresses Congress urging assault weapons ban.

Two West Memphis, AR police officers were murdered. Apparently an assault weapon was used.

The armchair politicians are out in force.

My condolences to the slain officers' families. And hopefully the Congress is smart enough to ignore Calderon's pleas to pee on our Bill of Rights.

[gunderwood]

You used Congress and smart in the same sentence!

[Jakeiscrazy]

He has time to talk to congress in between handing out money to cartels and promising to save mexico?

[VBshooter]

THis little crap head has been pushing this line for a while now.. It's our fault his country Sucks Him,Hillary,Holder and all the little gnomes have been going over this for a spell . SO far an outright assault weapons ban is considered a Hands Off in the US. For Now, Not politically cool. However you can never underestimate the stupidity of the government, The balls on the Mexican Leader are indeed huge and a neutering wouldn;t hurt a bit. TO come here and spout his crappola in our Congress is unprecedented and not acceptable in any sense of the word.Gotta wonder how much of our money he takes home to Mexico with him from his little vacation here. Its sad that no matter how many times we tell them , a semi automatic is not an assault weapon , appearing similar to military models is the only thing they share, of course the know nothings are going to get their panties in wad ,,,nothing new there ,,,,

[VBshooter]

I wanted to add the little puke told the Wall Street Journal that he has gotten 400 million US taxpayer dollars to aid his security program ,then went right on bitching that it wasn;t enough and that 10 Billion was needed. Also he said that assault weapons are available at at least 7000 stores on the mexican/US border in addition to gun shows,, Jackass apparently does not know just how much BS getting a full auto in the US is,So why doesn;t he just turn those store names over to the government and let us handle it??? It don't exist that's why.,,Nothing good can come of this visit and I;m sure we will have to steel ourselves for some attacks by the liberal weenies who have nothing better to do than try disarming the honest citizens of this country,, Come on November, Pelosi the witch says the Dems will remain in power and Its up to all of us to prove that she hag wrong!!!!!!!!

[zephyp]

First of all I think we're on the verge of being basically screwed...I dont mean that by being screwed in the sense that the current administration is screwing us. I mean that in the sense that if this were a video game we are almost down to the last life and on the very hardest level and surrounded by way too many bad guys...

I'm certain that many of you would immediately label me (or already have) as a pessimist...bull crap...I'm a realist and am looking the situation directly in the face seeing it for what it truly is...

Our government has far too much power and they had it long before the current twits came along. The problem is we have turned our heads the other way for far too long and the current administration is using their power underhandedly and in ways never meant to be.

So, what are we the people going to do if the liberals pull a fast one in November or if they win fairly by majority vote which is a distinct possibility? If that happens then we are on our way to being toast. My guess is most, being law abiding citizens, will get very upset and in the end acquiesce...

Not trying to suggest anything...I'm merely pointing out what I see to be a very possible scenario and making observations...and I dont have any answers other than campaign, vote and pray...

The good news is the game aint over yet, hence my use of the phrase "on the verge." The best thing we can do is make sure we get everyone we can to the polls and vote right...in the meantime we must pick who we think to be the best candidate and support them by whatever means we can.

Maybe we can suggest to Rick that we start a topic focused on what can be done between now and judgment day...

[VBshooter]

I am in agreement DK,,if we don;t get it right in November we could very easily be toast,,, Not a time for laziness, apathy or ignorance... I tell people to put the remote down and get off your ass,, If you don;t want to be the Liberal Waste of States instead of the United States then do something about it.. We still have far too many disinterested channel surfers out there who need to at least watch the news,(FOX) or read something related,join a group, NRA<GOA<etc get informed and do what you can.........

[gunderwood]

Our government has far too much power and they had it long before the current twits came along. The problem is we have turned our heads the other way for far too long and the current administration is using their power underhandedly and in ways never meant to be.

That is the problem with power. Once give, it can not be removed peacefully. Nor can it be restricted to the original purpose it was given. There is a reason the founders were afraid of government and it wasn't because they were ignorant. There is a reason the Federal government had checks and balances internal to it (three branches of government), but also external to it (States and the people).

Purely from the founders perspective, the Federal government isn't federal anymore, it is central and has had too much power for generations. Just as giving up liberty for health-care, immigration and to get wall street is a bad idea, giving it up during Bush Jr. term to get the terrorists was also a bad idea. As it was during Clinton's to restrict guns and get those domestic trouble makers. As it was during the cold war, the 70s stagflation, vietnam, korea, WWII, the great depression, etc., etc.

Giving up liberty and handing government, any government, more power is never a good idea.

[BluemontGlock]

"Our government has far too much power and they had it long before the current twits came along. The problem is we have turned our heads the other way for far too long and the current administration is using their power underhandedly and in ways never meant to be." - DK

I couldn't agree more with you...and then Gunderwood beat me to the punch of "that which is given, is very difficult to take away"... i will not get started on my usual rant of the patriot act, but that vile piece of legislative crap needs to be bled out and burned to dust...I know that when Geo. B was pulling power together, the last thing he thought about was having to pass that power on...lets see if anyone else can learn from history...

this statement could be label to any adminstration that has gone before us...
We have to change the way to gov't does business...and actaully get representative that are "of the people, for the poeple"...

[Taggure]

@BluemontGlock
We have to change the way to gov't does business...and actaully get representative that are "of the people, for the poeple"...

AMEN Brother Amen

Vote them all out and start over. The have 2 years to try and correct this mess or they Get fired as well.

Vern

[Mindflayer]

I know I'm a newbie here, and I don't mean to come across as a jerk, but labeling people isn't fruitful. I know I can not be the only Liberal here.

We have an oligarchic system here which is part of the problem. There is no strong third party. I believe a strong third party that would appeal to a wider mass of voters by having less of a platform would move us back toward a better system. IMO, both parties are to blame for the mess we're in now, and their fighting and staking out "core demographics of voters" has created this black-and-white political landscape.

That all said, I respectfully think Calderon should focus on correcting the cause, not a side effect. Or more properly, correlation does not imply causation.

[Taggure]

I know I'm a newbie here, and I don't mean to come across as a jerk, but labeling people isn't fruitful. I know I can not be the only Liberal here.

Your not the only one CowboyT is on here as well

We are not too hard on you all for the most part.

[CowboyT]

No, Mindflayer, you're not the only Liberal here. Given the city of my origin, I'm probably about as Liberal as it gets around here.

The problem isn't that Liberals are running things. The problem is that they're not. You have Communists (Democrats) running things right now, and Fascists (Republicans) preceded them and are looking to get back in. Neither party is any good at this point.

What we need to do is vote true Liberals back into office. That means people who actually believe in the Framers' vision for this country (sans the slavery compromises, obviously) and will actually implement such policies. You won't get that with any Democrat or Republican anymore. These days, you've *got* to go either Independent or third-party if that's really what you want.

And that's really what I want.

Oh, and Mr. Calderon needs to shut that anus of his that he apparently mistakes for his mouth, and quit talking out of it. What nerve, coming here and trying to tell us what to do, when he and his entire government are all about as corrupt as they come!

[gunderwood]

No, Mindflayer, you're not the only Liberal here. Given the city of my origin, I'm probably about as Liberal as it gets around here.

The problem isn't that Liberals are running things. The problem is that they're not. You have Communists (Democrats) running things right now, and Fascists (Republicans) preceded them and are looking to get back in. Neither party is any good at this point.

What we need to do is vote true Liberals back into office. That means people who actually believe in the Framers' vision for this country (sans the slavery compromises, obviously) and will actually implement such policies. You won't get that with any Democrat or Republican anymore. These days, you've *got* to go either Independent or third-party if that's really what you want.

And that's really what I want.

Oh, and Mr. Calderon needs to shut that anus of his that he apparently mistakes for his mouth, and quit talking out of it. What nerve, coming here and trying to tell us what to do, when he and his entire government are all about as corrupt as they come!

I think the term you are looking for is Classical Liberalism? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism

Classical liberalism is a political ideology that developed in the 19th century in England, Western Europe, and the Americas. It is committed to the ideal of limited government and liberty of individuals including freedom of religion, speech, press, assembly, and free markets.[1] Notable individuals who have contributed to classical liberalism include Jean-Baptiste Say, Thomas Malthus, and David Ricardo. There was a revival of interest in classical liberalism in the 20th century led by Ludwig von Mises and Friedrich Hayek, and other economists.[2][3][4]

The phrase classical liberalism is also sometimes used to refer to all forms of liberalism before the 20th century. And, after 1970, the phrase began to be used by libertarians to describe their belief in the primacy of economic freedom and minimal government. It is sometimes difficult to tell which meaning is intended in a given source.

This has absolutely nothing to do with modern liberalism/Democrats or Republicans. Both are only interested in increasing state power, they just argue about the details.

[zephyp]

I know I'm a newbie here, and I don't mean to come across as a jerk, but labeling people isn't fruitful. I know I can not be the only Liberal here.

We have an oligarchic system here which is part of the problem. There is no strong third party. I believe a strong third party that would appeal to a wider mass of voters by having less of a platform would move us back toward a better system. IMO, both parties are to blame for the mess we're in now, and their fighting and staking out "core demographics of voters" has created this black-and-white political landscape.

That all said, I respectfully think Calderon should focus on correcting the cause, not a side effect. Or more properly, correlation does not imply causation.

Hey Patrick and welcome to the board...no problem with being a newbie (or a liberal) and please do jump right in. I for one strongly feel we all need to work together toward a common goal. And I agree with you 100% - both parties are major screw ups....

I have no issue with liberals (or anyone for that matter) who truly wants to discuss the issues and try to figure out a solution for the common good....I have a big problem with the ones who want to shove our country way over to the left at the expense of everything we stand for...I think someone else nailed it about who's really in charge...true liberal democrats are closer to the center than the ones who are running things. IMHO they have slid across the line into socialism and some even farther.

At any rate, we need you and everyone else willing to stand up for our way of life so please make yourself at home...by "our way of life" I mean the way our Founders intended for things to be...

[Mindflayer]

Yes, I meant classical liberalism. My was intended as a good-natured jibe. I don't like to call myself a libertarian, as I believe that a completely laissez-faire economic policy is just as dangerous to personal liberty as a completely managed economic policy. I'll limit my soapbox to that statement.

Have you guys seen this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ldx8gZDwZWs

[zephyp]

Yes, I meant classical liberalism. My was intended as a good-natured jibe. I don't like to call myself a libertarian, as I believe that a completely laissez-faire economic policy is just as dangerous to personal liberty as a completely managed economic policy. I'll limit my soapbox to that statement.

Have you guys seen this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ldx8gZDwZWs

Yup. That video is posted elsewhere on this forum...good for him...and from Kalifornia too.

[gunderwood]

Yes, I meant classical liberalism. My was intended as a good-natured jibe. I don't like to call myself a libertarian, as I believe that a completely laissez-faire economic policy is just as dangerous to personal liberty as a completely managed economic policy. I'll limit my soapbox to that statement.

Have you guys seen this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ldx8gZDwZWs

The problem is that Liberty is not something you can choose piecemeal. You can't rationally say you have liberty in firearms, etc., but can't have it in economics. Like arms, economics and law are foundational to liberty. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; man must be able to defend himself, provide self-determination, and dispose of the fruits of his labor freely. It is only reasonable to restrict these when not doing so would violate others rights; ethics. You can not pick and choose these. You take them all or you will find you have none of them. Such is the position we find ourselves in today.

Couple of quick points:

1. Laissez-faire does not imply anarcho-capitalism. It doesn't mean there are no rules, but rather that you don't need special rules for economics. Theft is theft, fraud is fraud. I don't need explicit laws for the markets to avoid chaos. All I have to do is what is already done elsewhere. Laissez-faire is the government not being involved in determining prices, what is a fair trade, manipulating currencies, imposing additional rules to get desired outcomes (like subsidizing low income housing which was part the last bubble), etc.

2. If you are not for laissez-faire, then you are for central planning. The arrogance of anyone who claims they can centrally plan any economy, let alone a modern one, is astounding. To suggest that anyone or any group, which is a subset of the whole, can efficiently and optimally commit resources across the entire economy is mind boggling. It was Mises who showed socialist can't economically calculate. It isn't limited to socialists though, all forms of central planning have the same flaws and they are unsolvable until you apply a distributed system.

However, that ignores the two hard parts. The easier of the two is to mange resource throughout time. A modern economy is very complex and not only are the right resources needed, but must be efficiently allocated throughout time and to the most productive goods (scarcity of resources is assumed and this leads to the second part). Many modern goods take months or sometimes years from raw materials to finished product.

The second aspect and the much harder part is that you must predict peoples desires and needs well before they can acquire them. A car company must design and build auto-mobiles before you can buy them! Therefore resources must be allocated long before the apparent demand is measurable, which get to the real heart of this second problem. How do I know what the value system for any particular individual is? E.g. most people on this forum value guns highly, but there are many in this country who would toss them in the fire first chance. I value purses and shoes very little, but ask our wives how much they value them and you will get a different answer. This question of value was a fundamental flaw in classical economics. They assumed, as I'm sure most people reading this may be tempted to, that objects have inherent value. There is some marginal value assigned to something. However, experience taught otherwise. It was those pesky laissez-faire guys who came up with a theory that actually worked. Now all the other schools of economic thought take it for-granted and retrofitted it into their theories. Ignoring the inconvenient fact that to do so requires them to violate their own basic assumptions about property and markets. Oh well, logical consistency isn't needed, just power. This theory is based on marginal utility and subjective valuation. Like always, I have a book...

3. The control system and computation power to solve such a problem is astronomical (assuming you could find a way to measure value). A centrally controlled system is doomed to failure and is simply hubris. The only way to efficiently "manage" this system is a distributed control system. One in which every member of a society has a say. This is the market and its control system is prices. Everyone but the laissez-faire economists glosses over prices and thus they fail to understand the single most powerful, awesome, efficient and optimal system to do all those things I covered above. Study the price system and you can't be a central planner any more.

Men are either free or they are not. There is partial freeman just as there is no partial slave.

That's a quick summary. Study the price system, it will change your mind. Central planners only think they have control. Funny thing is all sorts of bad things keep happening when their in power, but yet they have control?