Campus Carry - your thoughts?

[Iqentab308]

Oh, and I forgot to ask.

What do you guys think about colleges and universities not allowing even locked guns on campus? Almost everyone on a college campus is over 18, and most are legally allowed to buy a gun... so I don't understand why any firearm is disallowed.

[JKJeremy]

Oh, and I forgot to ask.

What do you guys think about colleges and universities not allowing even locked guns on campus? Almost everyone on a college campus is over 18, and most are legally allowed to buy a gun... so I don't understand why any firearm is disallowed.

I don't understand why this question is being asked in this thread instead of in another thread not intended for listing gun unfriendly businesses....as the original post states this thread is intended for compiling a list and a resource for determining gun unfriendly businesses in VA....it is not intended as a thread for general discussion related to places you can and can't carry and the legalities thereof....I've been chastised for bringing this up before so flame away if you disagree or otherwise don't like my tone or simple logic of the intentions of his thread...I come in peace, always

[Diomed]

I have no problem with campus carry.

I can see where a private institution can control who has what on their property, but an institution taking public money should have no such authority.

[M1A4ME]

I served 4 years in the US Army before going to college. I'd been married for 2 years (also) by the time I started college. I was not "fresh out of high school and away from mom and dad for the first time."

My experience with college students was that many of them are way to immature and irresponsible to possess loaded firearms when they were sober, let alone drunk or high. I wonder what the death toll would be in colleges and universities if anyone who wanted a firearm in their room could have one?

Yes, there are many 14 and 15 year olds who are mature and responsible enough to be around/use firearms but they won't be the problem, it'll be the irresponsible ones who injure/kill others or themselves.

Now, to finish up on the above, my brother and I kept handguns in our rooms (locked in boxes in our locked clothing lockers) for a couple of years while I lived in the dorms. Even after I moved out of the dorms I carried a loaded S&W M586 in my rucksack of books/pens/calculators to every class I attended.

[totes6]

Well look at the state of Utah. BY LAW students are allowed with a concealed handgun permit to carry on all State funded campuses. Private campuses are under different rules since it is private property. Also Blue Ridge Community College in Virginia allows students to carry. Colorado state has just finished a major case. Where are the mass shootings? Where are the streets and rivers running red with blood? I have googled for news about any issues coming from these colleges, but all I can find is where the administration has been trying to turn this back. Much like the argument the anti gun crowd used against legislation for shall issue that was proved wrong. They have been proved wrong once again that more guns means more crime. The county Sheriff that Colorado State University resides in has been quoted that if the campus police try to arrest a student with a permit from his office he will refuse to jail that student. Since carry has been allowed at the campus crime rates have plummeted on and near campus.

Anti gunners =

The anti gunners have continued to ignore this fact. Because they cannot explain it away. It just doesn't fit in their view of the world. So they have to use their rose colored glasses to avoid it.

Now saying all that, I would also be for more training. Most kids in prior generations grew up with guns and were TAUGHT proper use and handling of a gun as a tool at home. It just doesn't happen anymore. There are no more classes or clubs in school that help teach these things. Most kids are not taught these things at home either. I was fortunate. When I grew up my father taught me proper RESPECT of firearms. I had the boy scout program to further enforce the basic principles of safe handling and use of a firearm. I knew as a kid that I shouldn't handle the firearm without an adult there to supervise. By the time I first went shooting with the boy scouts, I could safely clear a firearm by myself. Now did my knowledge increase my interest in firearms, maybe I don't know. But at least when I ran across a firearm at a friends place I knew better than to pick it up and point it at my buddy like I see on TV. This is why I support the training program that has been signed into law for Virginia schools. The Eddie Eagle program helps teach that respect of firearms. The more training a person has the better.

In case it wasn't clear from my ramblings above. I fully support College Students being able to carry on campus. I'm old enough to sign up for the selective service and be sent by my country to fight and possibly die for my country. I should be old enough carry my firearm where I want to. Yes private property is an entirely different issue. But Schools funded by my tax dollars should be restricted by the 2nd amendment. The Schools should not be allowed to restrict the 2nd amendment.

[Palladin]

@totes6
I like this guy!

[Eagle4second]

Here at Mary Washington the only people disarmed on campus are students and faculty. Since the campus is public property, any one else can carry (assume all laws are followed). But school rules prohibit students and faculty from having a weapon on campus.

[RocKor]

As a college student I fully would support Campus Carry.

Anyone know if there are any colleges in VA that DO allow students to CCW?

[OakRidgeStars]

As a college student I fully would support Campus Carry.

Anyone know if there are any colleges in VA that DO allow students to CCW?

Blue Ridge Community College is the only campus I know of. If you would like to get involved in on-campus carry, check out Students for Concealed Carry.

http://concealedcampus.org/

[Quigley]

I am a person that has had a CCW for 3 years and just graduated college. It always bothered me not having a gun in class but it is important to realize that having a gun is not everything. I was shot at for being in the wrong place at the wrong time when I was 8 years old and had a gun pulled on me when I was 10. Needless to say I grew up in a bad neighborhood. My point is that many people rely solely on a gun for SD when the mental and physical parts of self defense are way more important but very few people take the time to physically and mentally prepare.

+1 for Utah.

[gunderwood]

Just like driving an auto-mobile or drinking alcohol. There is no age limit that magically once achieved everyone in society will be responsible enough own or carry guns. There are some adults who should never own a gun...ever. There are also some teenagers who I trust with a gun more than most adults.

Any age limit is by definition arbitrary. E.g. take a look at the age of consent throughout the world and history. The only interest society has in defining an arbitrary age to do "adult" things is for application of the law. E.g. if you murder someone under age X, these set of rules apply to you; if you are over age X, these other set apply. E.g. if you are under age X, we can't sell you a gun, alcohol, tobacco, etc. However, these days we toss out those definitions when it suits us any ways so I'm not really sure what purpose they now have. Like I said, arbitrary, but it makes us feel good.

Most "civilized" societies attempt to make these blanket judgement calls, usually tied to an age, because they are devoid of common sense and responsible citizens. It is the quality of the citizenry that determines the force of restraint they will demand of their government.

Another way to look at the problem is: at what age does a human being gain the right to self defence? Is a 16 year old girl not allowed to defend her self against a rapist with the most efficient tool she deems? If you believe, as Jefferson did and stated in the Declaration of Independence, that all men are created equal and have certain unalienable rights, when does the Creator bestow the right to life and the ability to defend it upon his creation?

Seems to me that as the handgun is the current best tool for defending ones life against a threat, we, as a society, have determined that right to be bestowed at 21 and severely restricted from 18. Aren't we just sooo civilized? Our modern morals are so advanced we have to remove the right of those under 21 to effectively defend themselves just to fend off chaos and anarchy!

[Quigley]

gunderwood,

Very well put. I could not have put it any better.

[CowboyT]

A guy in California who is 18 mentioned his difficulty in getting to shoot handguns regularly, since he can't even own one.

As a military veteran, I said this to the kid:

Man enough to get drafted to die for your country, then:
1.) man enough to vote; (already in place, thank Goodness)
2.) man enough to have a drink; and
3.) man enough to own a handgun.

This is how it used to be, and our streets didn't run with "rivers of blood."

Otherwise, the draft age should be raised to 21. You should also still be able to *elect* to join the Armed Forces at 18, and even 17 with parental approval, as it is now.

Here's one compromise. If you're adult enough to sign your name on that dotted line, raise your right hand, and take that oath, then your military ID should be enough to allow you, regardless of your age, to purchase a handgun.

[gunderwood]

Here's one compromise. If you're adult enough to sign your name on that dotted line, raise your right hand, and take that oath, then your military ID should be enough to allow you, regardless of your age, to purchase a handgun.

So joining the military or perhaps some other LE gains you special rights regular citizens don't have. That's a dangerous path...


Rights granted by the government for being good or "serving" aren't rights at all.

[t33j]

Here's one compromise. If you're adult enough to sign your name on that dotted line, raise your right hand, and take that oath, then your military ID should be enough to allow you, regardless of your age, to purchase a handgun.

So joining the military or perhaps some other LE gains you special rights regular citizens don't have. That's a dangerous path...


Rights granted by the government for being good or "serving" aren't rights at all.

QFT

It amazes me the arguments against carry I hear from people who own guns.

I fully support guns in the hands of students on campus (and know there already are at mine). The proposed CHP only bill is a good way to start.

I live off campus and have to go through some pretty bad areas to get to class. Student policy prohibits me from carrying on University Property... While I live close enough to walk or bike I refuse. I'll almost always drive, and park my car on a public street and leave my gun there.

[allingeneral]

Here's one compromise. If you're adult enough to sign your name on that dotted line, raise your right hand, and take that oath, then your military ID should be enough to allow you, regardless of your age, to purchase a handgun.

So joining the military or perhaps some other LE gains you special rights regular citizens don't have. That's a dangerous path...


Rights granted by the government for being good or "serving" aren't rights at all.

I don't think that's what CowboyT is implying. (not how I read it anyway)

I read it as a statement indicating that the laws should be adjusted so that whatever age is determined to be an appropriate age of "adulthood" - it should apply to all facets of being an adult, whether it be purchasing a handgun, voting, serving in the military, smoking a cigarette or drinking a beer, etc. Not to give special privileges to those who serve.

[SgtBill]

Here's one compromise. If you're adult enough to sign your name on that dotted line, raise your right hand, and take that oath, then your military ID should be enough to allow you, regardless of your age, to purchase a handgun.

So joining the military or perhaps some other LE gains you special rights regular citizens don't have. That's a dangerous path...


Rights granted by the government for being good or "serving" aren't rights at all.

I don't think that's what CowboyT is implying. (not how I read it anyway)

I read it as a statement indicating that the laws should be adjusted so that whatever age is determined to be an appropriate age of "adulthood" - it should apply to all facets of being an adult, whether it be purchasing a handgun, voting, serving in the military, smoking a cigarette or drinking a beer, etc. Not to give special privileges to those who serve.

Rick, I have to agree with you on this post. I see the statement's that were made in the same light as you do.
Bill

[zephyp]

Rick, I have to agree with you on this post. I see the statement's that were made in the same light as you do.
Bill

And I would agree with the both of you. He makes a great point...

[gunderwood]

I read it as a statement indicating that the laws should be adjusted so that whatever age is determined to be an appropriate age of "adulthood" - it should apply to all facets of being an adult, whether it be purchasing a handgun, voting, serving in the military, smoking a cigarette or drinking a beer, etc. Not to give special privileges to those who serve.

I would agree with this statement (underline added), but unless CowboyT speaks up to clarify his statement, I stand by my interpretation of his comment. Here is why:

Here's one compromise. If you're adult enough to sign your name on that dotted line, raise your right hand, and take that oath, then your military ID should be enough to allow you, regardless of your age, to purchase a handgun.

That implies that you must have a military ID to purchase a handgun from a FFL below the current legal age of 21, which any civilian from 18-21 years of age would not have. If CowboyT left that part (military ID) out, than your interpretation would be correct. If you're an adult, you're an adult. Military duty, voting, handgun, smoking, alcohol, etc. That isn't want he wrote though.

Edit: It should be obvious from my post several above this that I already argued for this point, but actually even further than the last posts have.

[baz]

As a college student I fully would support Campus Carry.

Anyone know if there are any colleges in VA that DO allow students to CCW?

Blue Ridge Community College is the only campus I know of. If you would like to get involved in on-campus carry, check out Students for Concealed Carry.

http://concealedcampus.org/

I assume that you are talking about public colleges/universities. What about private institutions?

Does anyone know of any private colleges/universities that allow CC?

I ask because the one where I work does not. I would like to propose a change in that section of the handbook. Now, I am interested in any opinions and information that would help achieve this goal. I live in a small college town where I cut across the campus daily. Not being able to CC would be cumbersome if I had to walk around campus for everything. (Note: I don't have my CHP yet, but I will be in the process of applying shortly. I need to stop putting it off.)