The Illinois method of avoiding a violent rape

[MountainCat]

Some of the examiner.com articles led me to the following:

Here is the Illinois method to prevent a violent rape:
http://www.isp.state.il.us/crime/saconfronted.cfm

Fighting for your safety may be necessary. However, if you start out fighting you cancel any other options that might be open to you. Since many attacks on women are not sexually motivated, and are designed to degrade and humiliate, talking your way out of it may be easier.

* There is documentation of assailants that left a would-be-victim alone after she told him that she was pregnant and it would kill her baby. (Some case were women that were too old to even have a baby.)
* Telling an attacker that you have VD or AIDS can discourage him.
* It may sound disgusting, but putting your fingers into you throat and making yourself vomit usually gets results. (This method is not often used except as a last resort.)
* Use your imagination and you can think of others.

The above methods are particularly important if your assailant has a gun or knife, or there is more than one attacker. (Fighting would probably be futile.)

I can think of another method:

[wylde007]

I'm gobsmacked.

[WildBill44]

Personally I prefer the "Virginia Option", a rapidly expanding piece of lead jacketed with copper placed in the rapists center of mass and traveling at enough speed to penetrate at least half-way through his body! Alternate placement would be squarely between his beady little eyes and exiting in the back of his filthy head!

That crap from the People's Republic of Illinois is typical of the stuff coming from Daley and his Chicago Mafia. THAT is one reason I was only too happy to move from there thirty years ago and would not move back there if some one would GIVE me a house free of charge if I would live in it!

[zephyp]

Is this for real? Thats a joke site, right?

[graybeard321]

no, it’s for real it takes you to a Illinois state police site. Now I know where the ill comes from in their name because those people are sick. I do differ with wildbill44 with shot placement. 1 shot castration and no women would have to worry about him raping them or anyone else.

[zephyp]

no, it’s for real it takes you to a Illinois state police site. Now I know where the ill comes from in their name because those people are sick. I do differ with wildbill44 with shot placement. 1 shot castration and no women would have to worry about him raping them or anyone else.

I know its real, merely unbelievable they would actually indoctrinate women like this...

The big problem I have with teaching women to let one of these scumbags go, other than they themselves might get hurt, is how many other women will this scum hurt before they are stopped. I teach my Young that if she lets someone trying to rape her off - then she needs to be ready to accept part of the responsibility for the next woman he rapes or kills.

Harsh rhetoric but a fact of life... maybe if a couple of these legislators or ILSP LEOs had their wives or daughters raped they'd see the light....not wishing them ill but sometimes things have to hit close to home to make you do something meaningful...

[MountainCat]

Is this for real? Thats a joke site, right?

No joke.

making yourself vomit

It's IL State Police's preferred use for the 'trigger finger'.

[firstcavapache64]

Shot placement is the key to no repeat offenders. My wife and daughter know how to defend themselves and how to escalate the violence as the situation requires it. Rape is justifiable to use deadly force. These sick bastards are usually serial rapists. Puking on them isn't going to stop them. Even if they are grossed out and leave you alone which I highly doubt, they are just going to violate some other woman. The effective use of a handgun is key to stopping these people once and for all. Either by holding them at gunpoint for LEO or two to the chest and one to the head to stop the attack. Illinois has it's head up its rear to give women this kind of info. It's criminal.

[WildBill44]

I guarantee that a sufficient number of hollow point slugs either center of mass or between the eyes will result in one less rapist that will NEVER do it again. Under the stress of the situation it would take a very lucky shot to hit a target that small and especially with the baggy pants so prevalent with the street scum of today! I guess if you happen to be there when a rapist is in the process of attacking someone you could flip a coin for the shot: Heads, or tails......

[maljay]

Now you know why there is such a fight in Chicago. The Illinois State Police cannot come out and recommend shooting someone who is attacking you if you are not allowed to carry a gun.

[MountainCat]

I guarantee that a sufficient number of hollow point slugs either center of mass or between the eyes will result in one less rapist that will NEVER do it again. Under the stress of the situation it would take a very lucky shot to hit a target that small and especially with the baggy pants so prevalent with the street scum of today! I guess if you happen to be there when a rapist is in the process of attacking someone you could flip a coin for the shot: Heads, or tails......

You bring up an interesting point Bill. We all should know that a woman can use deadly force to prevent themselves from being raped. And, as a man or woman, we can use deadly force to prevent great bodily harm to ourselves or another. By my understanding, bodily harm is defined as death, unconsciousness, broken bones, permanent disfigurement, and stitches.

Is a rape considered great bodily harm in the eyes of the court or jury? I am not aware of any case law or written law to that effect so someone please set me straight.

It seems to me that an unarmed rapist situation could fall into one of those 'gray areas' for the well intentioned 'good guy'. It would be a much larger 'gray area' if the 'good guy' didn't know the victim. After all, how would a 3rd party know that a serious crime was taking place versus, for example, two people acting out a fantasy behind a restaurant?

I don't want to change the subject of the thread but I think people should additionally carry pepper spray or an alternative for those 'gray area' situations.

I mean, It'll probably work better than puking on the BG.

[zephyp]

Is a rape considered great bodily harm in the eyes of the court or jury? I am not aware of any case law or written law to that effect so someone please set me straight.

I wont ask you if you've ever had to deal with a woman after she's been raped because obviously you have not. Suffice it to say that raping a woman leaves a mark deeper than anything can just short of killing.

Case law? I'm sure there is enough case law on rape to fill up Ricks servers for the next 20 years. Check out penalties for rape and sex crimes. Its a violent crime often accompanied with torture and followed by murder. Suffice it to say that many who are killed are spared the ongoing mental agony that follows them for years to come.

I challenge ANYONE to prove that rape of a woman is not bodily harm sufficient for the use of deadly force...to think otherwise or even wonder...well that makes me wonder...enough said.

</rant>

EDIT: Pepper spray for a rapist? Grey area? Are you for real?

[MountainCat]

Is a rape considered great bodily harm in the eyes of the court or jury? I am not aware of any case law or written law to that effect so someone please set me straight.

I wont ask you if you've ever had to deal with a woman after she's been raped because obviously you have not.

And you would be wrong. Very wrong.

[zephyp]

Is a rape considered great bodily harm in the eyes of the court or jury? I am not aware of any case law or written law to that effect so someone please set me straight.

I wont ask you if you've ever had to deal with a woman after she's been raped because obviously you have not.

And you would be wrong. Very wrong.

Then please accept my apologies T. You know thats not an easy thing to deal with and it should answer the question you posed to WildBill.

My prayers go out to you and yours...

[MountainCat]

I'm sorry for the confusion. The question wasn't to Bill directly. In my mind it's a legitimate concern. Some situations are 'black and white' and others are gray.

Sometimes you just can't shoot someone even though you're able and want to.

Sometimes you don't have enough information to know.

Sometimes other methods will keep you out of prison and have the 'desired' legal result.

I'm just trying to figure it out. For myself.

And if anyone thinks there are no good reasons for an armed person to also carry pepper spray, you are mistaken or a ninja.

[WRW]

[quote="MountainCat"]

You bring up an interesting point Bill. We all should know that a woman can use deadly force to prevent themselves from being raped. And, as a man or woman, we can use deadly force to prevent great bodily harm to ourselves or another. By my understanding, bodily harm is defined as death, unconsciousness, broken bones, permanent disfigurement, and stitches.

Is a rape considered great bodily harm in the eyes of the court or jury? I am not aware of any case law or written law to that effect so someone please set me straight.[quote]


http://www.virginia1774.org/Page6.html Read down to "Great or Serious Bodily Injury"

[MountainCat]

http://www.virginia1774.org/Page6.html Read down to "Great or Serious Bodily Injury"

Thanks. Looks like it's in this section: 18.2-67.3 (aggravated sexual battery)

What Is Great or Serious Bodily Injury?

Commonwealth v. Bernard Payne, Va. App. (1996 Unpublished)



" Bernard Payne was charged with violating the felony provision of Code § 46.2-817. The trial court held that the term "serious bodily injury" was unconstitutionally vague and dismissed the felony charge. The Commonwealth appeals...

Furthermore, in determining the meaning of a statute, "[t]he validity of using other Code sections as interpretive guides is well established. The Code of Virginia constitutes a single body of law, and other sections can be looked to where the same phraseology is employed." King v. Commonwealth, 2 Va. App. 708, 710, 347 S.E.2d 530, 531 (1986). Code § 18.2-369, which concerns abuse or neglect of incapacitated adults, reads: "For purposes of this subsection, 'serious bodily injury or disease' shall include but not be limited to (i) disfigurement, (ii) a fracture, (iii) a severe burn or laceration, (iv) mutilation, (v) maiming, or (vi) life threatening internal injuries or conditions, whether or not caused by trauma." The term "serious bodily injury" can also be found in other statutes. See Code § 10.1-1455 (handling of hazardous wastes), 16.1-228 (family abuse definition), 16.1-269.1 (transfer of juveniles to circuit court), 17-237 (sentencing guidelines), 18.2-67.3 (aggravated sexual battery), 29.1-740 (duty to stop and render assistance); 54.1-2400.1 (duty of mental health service providers to prevent violence), and 54.1-3434.3 (denial, revocation, and suspension of pharmacy registration).

With such widespread use of the term, it is plain that the term does have a common and well-recognized meaning. As such, ordinary people can understand what conduct is prohibited and the inclusion of the term in the statute does not encourage arbitrary and discriminatory enforcement. Therefore, the term is not unconstitutionally vague."

[GS78]

Now you know why there is such a fight in Chicago. The Illinois State Police cannot come out and recommend shooting someone who is attacking you if you are not allowed to carry a gun.

You are exactly right. All the rhetoric about what someone with a carry gun doesn't apply in a place like chicago, or New York,preferred rapist utopias. I did not visit the site that was in the OP, but when I used to teach martial arts,(Shorinji Kempo) we taught very specific anti-rape techniques, one of which was for the victim to calmly but firmly reach down to the attackers 'giggitys' and grab hold of and turn them into mashed potatoes. We also taught some very effective and painful pressure point attacks . In my mind fighting is the only way to go out.The strong go out on their feet, the weak on their knees.

[zephyp]

I'm sorry for the confusion. The question wasn't to Bill directly. In my mind it's a legitimate concern. Some situations are 'black and white' and others are gray.

Sometimes you just can't shoot someone even though you're able and want to.

Sometimes you don't have enough information to know.

Sometimes other methods will keep you out of prison and have the 'desired' legal result.

I'm just trying to figure it out. For myself.

And if anyone thinks there are no good reasons for an armed person to also carry pepper spray, you are mistaken or a ninja.

Again, my apologies. It was late and I was tired. Also had a bad day. I've taught Young not to try and figure out what a threat might do. Her defense in court is that she is very small, about 100 pounds soaking wet, was alone, very frightened, plus she's been accosted and mugged twice. Once in broad daylight at a gas station with others merely watching. The other time at gun point in her own store. She knows what to watch for and when to react and I hope she does...and I hope I've taught her the right things. Its not been easy. To give you an example it took me over a year to convince her that car and house doors must be locked...and we do employ pepper spray (the good kind) as part of her defense.

[BluemontGlock]

Wildbill - "it would take a very lucky shot to hit a target that small"...

Wildbill...I think you fine folks might just be using the wrong tool for the job here...


Folks - when at home, you need a shot gun...if you are worried about shattershot, get a slug barrell, the BG on the wrong end will not know and will not ask, i garuntee you... & NOTHING, N>O>T>H>I>N>G, SCARES THE HELL OUT OF A NO GOOD SOB more than a shotgun, as we have said here before, these kinds of people are cowards and selfish, and will do almost anything to stay out of harms way,...and Nothing says "I am in charge and don't move unless i say so" more than a shot gun, it has a gratifing heft, most of them make an awsome awe inspiring confidence building sound when articulated correctly, and (god forbid) when empty can be used as an highly effectly and ergonomic club...12 ga. too big, too much recoil? NO Problem...try a 20 ga. , or a .410,..It doesn;t matter, the BG WILL see the big opening at the end of the barrell and THEY KNOW that nothing but bad things come out of that end....and they make semi-auto in almost every ga. ( LOVE ME SOME SEMI AUTO SHOTGUN and mine is even a 3.5 magnum, and my 00 buck has 19 pellets in the winchester black supreme shells )

and practice shooting it from the hip while maintaining eye contact with your target... and then use your voice! the LEO's here can talk extensivly about the power of your voice, and how it can be used in confrontations...A determined voice says clearly "i will not be an easy victim, and might just squeeze the miserable little life out of you in the process..."

it is these types of events that scare me the most as a father, husband, brother, son, and friend...and i arm those around me with as much knowledge, firepower, experience, and support as i can...as i believe we are far more liklely to have this kind of an event happen to us or someone we know than some of the other senarios we have discussed here....

perhaps this plays into OC'ing my grim visage for my daughters "boyfriends" and seemily contstanly cleaning my hardware when ever they are over...and my wife laughs at me when i do it...

Carry On, & Do good things!