Plane crash may have been on purpose

[GS78]

FOX NEWS is reporting that the crash in Austin was at the IRS building, and that the pilot burned his own home prior to flying the plane into the building...







FBI is downplaying that report.

[nickf829]

Not sure if this is legit, but it sure appears to be. I heard on XM just now that the supposed pilot "Joe Stack" ran a website, embedded art . com, I guess he took the site down today and posted his manifesto in its place. Kind of creepy
http://embeddedart.com/
I copied it just in case, I figure it will only be a matter of time before they take it down.

Of course, this could always be a hoax, who knows.

[allingeneral]

I'll go ahead and post the text of the link above - it's an interesting diatribe

Title of website: Well Mr. Big Brother IRS man... take my pound of flesh and sleep well.

If you’re reading this, you’re no doubt asking yourself, “Why did this have to happen?” The simple truth is that it is complicated and has been coming for a long time. The writing process, started many months ago, was intended to be therapy in the face of the looming realization that there isn’t enough therapy in the world that can fix what is really broken. Needless to say, this rant could fill volumes with example after example if I would let it. I find the process of writing it frustrating, tedious, and probably pointless… especially given my gross inability to gracefully articulate my thoughts in light of the storm raging in my head. Exactly what is therapeutic about that I’m not sure, but desperate times call for desperate measures.

We are all taught as children that without laws there would be no society, only anarchy. Sadly, starting at early ages we in this country have been brainwashed to believe that, in return for our dedication and service, our government stands for justice for all. We are further brainwashed to believe that there is freedom in this place, and that we should be ready to lay our lives down for the noble principals represented by its founding fathers. Remember? One of these was “no taxation without representation”. I have spent the total years of my adulthood unlearning that crap from only a few years of my childhood. These days anyone who really stands up for that principal is promptly labeled a “crackpot”, traitor and worse.

While very few working people would say they haven’t had their fair share of taxes (as can I), in my lifetime I can say with a great degree of certainty that there has never been a politician cast a vote on any matter with the likes of me or my interests in mind. Nor, for that matter, are they the least bit interested in me or anything I have to say.

Why is it that a handful of thugs and plunderers can commit unthinkable atrocities (and in the case of the GM executives, for scores of years) and when it’s time for their gravy train to crash under the weight of their gluttony and overwhelming stupidity, the force of the full federal government has no difficulty coming to their aid within days if not hours? Yet at the same time, the joke we call the American medical system, including the drug and insurance companies, are murdering tens of thousands of people a year and stealing from the corpses and victims they cripple, and this country’s leaders don’t see this as important as bailing out a few of their vile, rich cronies. Yet, the political “representatives” (thieves, liars, and self-serving scumbags is far more accurate) have endless time to sit around for year after year and debate the state of the “terrible health care problem”. It’s clear they see no crisis as long as the dead people don’t get in the way of their corporate profits rolling in.

And justice? You’ve got to be kidding!

How can any rational individual explain that white elephant conundrum in the middle of our tax system and, indeed, our entire legal system? Here we have a system that is, by far, too complicated for the brightest of the master scholars to understand. Yet, it mercilessly “holds accountable” its victims, claiming that they’re responsible for fully complying with laws not even the experts understand. The law “requires” a signature on the bottom of a tax filing; yet no one can say truthfully that they understand what they are signing; if that’s not “duress” than what is. If this is not the measure of a totalitarian regime, nothing is.

How did I get here?

My introduction to the real American nightmare starts back in the early ‘80s. Unfortunately after more than 16 years of school, somewhere along the line I picked up the absurd, pompous notion that I could read and understand plain English. Some friends introduced me to a group of people who were having ‘tax code’ readings and discussions. In particular, zeroed in on a section relating to the wonderful “exemptions” that make institutions like the vulgar, corrupt Catholic Church so incredibly wealthy. We carefully studied the law (with the help of some of the “best”, high-paid, experienced tax lawyers in the business), and then began to do exactly what the “big boys” were doing (except that we weren’t steeling from our congregation or lying to the government about our massive profits in the name of God). We took a great deal of care to make it all visible, following all of the rules, exactly the way the law said it was to be done.

The intent of this exercise and our efforts was to bring about a much-needed re-evaluation of the laws that allow the monsters of organized religion to make such a mockery of people who earn an honest living. However, this is where I learned that there are two “interpretations” for every law; one for the very rich, and one for the rest of us… Oh, and the monsters are the very ones making and enforcing the laws; the inquisition is still alive and well today in this country.

That little lesson in patriotism cost me $40,000+, 10 years of my life, and set my retirement plans back to 0. It made me realize for the first time that I live in a country with an ideology that is based on a total and complete lie. It also made me realize, not only how naive I had been, but also the incredible stupidity of the American public; that they buy, hook, line, and sinker, the crap about their “freedom”… and that they continue to do so with eyes closed in the face of overwhelming evidence and all that keeps happening in front of them.

Before even having to make a shaky recovery from the sting of the first lesson on what justice really means in this country (around 1984 after making my way through engineering school and still another five years of “paying my dues”), I felt I finally had to take a chance of launching my dream of becoming an independent engineer.

On the subjects of engineers and dreams of independence, I should digress somewhat to say that I’m sure that I inherited the fascination for creative problem solving from my father. I realized this at a very young age.

The significance of independence, however, came much later during my early years of college; at the age of 18 or 19 when I was living on my own as student in an apartment in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. My neighbor was an elderly retired woman (80+ seemed ancient to me at that age) who was the widowed wife of a retired steel worker. Her husband had worked all his life in the steel mills of central Pennsylvania with promises from big business and the union that, for his 30 years of service, he would have a pension and medical care to look forward to in his retirement. Instead he was one of the thousands who got nothing because the incompetent mill management and corrupt union (not to mention the government) raided their pension funds and stole their retirement. All she had was social security to live on.

In retrospect, the situation was laughable because here I was living on peanut butter and bread (or Ritz crackers when I could afford to splurge) for months at a time. When I got to know this poor figure and heard her story I felt worse for her plight than for my own (I, after all, I thought I had everything to in front of me). I was genuinely appalled at one point, as we exchanged stories and commiserated with each other over our situations, when she in her grandmotherly fashion tried to convince me that I would be “healthier” eating cat food (like her) rather than trying to get all my substance from peanut butter and bread. I couldn’t quite go there, but the impression was made. I decided that I didn’t trust big business to take care of me, and that I would take responsibility for my own future and myself.

Return to the early ‘80s, and here I was off to a terrifying start as a ‘wet-behind-the-ears’ contract software engineer... and two years later, thanks to the fine backroom, midnight effort by the sleazy executives of Arthur Andersen (the very same folks who later brought us Enron and other such calamities) and an equally sleazy New York Senator (Patrick Moynihan), we saw the passage of 1986 tax reform act with its section 1706.

For you who are unfamiliar, here is the core text of the IRS Section 1706, defining the treatment of workers (such as contract engineers) for tax purposes. Visit this link for a conference committee report (http://www.synergistech.com/1706.shtml# ... tteeReport) regarding the intended interpretation of Section 1706 and the relevant parts of Section 530, as amended. For information on how these laws affect technical services workers and their clients, read our discussion here (http://www.synergistech.com/ic-taxlaw.shtml).

SEC. 1706. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN TECHNICAL PERSONNEL.

(a) IN GENERAL - Section 530 of the Revenue Act of 1978 is amended by adding at the end thereof the following new subsection:

(d) EXCEPTION. - This section shall not apply in the case of an individual who pursuant to an arrangement between the taxpayer and another person, provides services for such other person as an engineer, designer, drafter, computer programmer, systems analyst, or other similarly skilled worker engaged in a similar line of work.

(b) EFFECTIVE DATE. - The amendment made by this section shall apply to remuneration paid and services rendered after December 31, 1986.

Note:

· "another person" is the client in the traditional job-shop relationship.

· "taxpayer" is the recruiter, broker, agency, or job shop.

· "individual", "employee", or "worker" is you.



Admittedly, you need to read the treatment to understand what it is saying but it’s not very complicated. The bottom line is that they may as well have put my name right in the text of section (d). Moreover, they could only have been more blunt if they would have came out and directly declared me a criminal and non-citizen slave. Twenty years later, I still can’t believe my eyes.

During 1987, I spent close to $5000 of my ‘pocket change’, and at least 1000 hours of my time writing, printing, and mailing to any senator, congressman, governor, or slug that might listen; none did, and they universally treated me as if I was wasting their time. I spent countless hours on the L.A. freeways driving to meetings and any and all of the disorganized professional groups who were attempting to mount a campaign against this atrocity. This, only to discover that our efforts were being easily derailed by a few moles from the brokers who were just beginning to enjoy the windfall from the new declaration of their “freedom”. Oh, and don’t forget, for all of the time I was spending on this, I was loosing income that I couldn’t bill clients.

After months of struggling it had clearly gotten to be a futile exercise. The best we could get for all of our trouble is a pronouncement from an IRS mouthpiece that they weren’t going to enforce that provision (read harass engineers and scientists). This immediately proved to be a lie, and the mere existence of the regulation began to have its impact on my bottom line; this, of course, was the intended effect.

Again, rewind my retirement plans back to 0 and shift them into idle. If I had any sense, I clearly should have left abandoned engineering and never looked back.

Instead I got busy working 100-hour workweeks. Then came the L.A. depression of the early 1990s. Our leaders decided that they didn’t need the all of those extra Air Force bases they had in Southern California, so they were closed; just like that. The result was economic devastation in the region that rivaled the widely publicized Texas S&L fiasco. However, because the government caused it, no one gave a poop about all of the young families who lost their homes or street after street of boarded up houses abandoned to the wealthy loan companies who received government funds to “shore up” their windfall. Again, I lost my retirement.

Years later, after weathering a divorce and the constant struggle trying to build some momentum with my business, I find myself once again beginning to finally pick up some speed. Then came the .COM bust and the 911 nightmare. Our leaders decided that all aircraft were grounded for what seemed like an eternity; and long after that, ‘special’ facilities like San Francisco were on security alert for months. This made access to my customers prohibitively expensive. Ironically, after what they had done the Government came to the aid of the airlines with billions of our tax dollars … as usual they left me to rot and die while they bailed out their rich, incompetent cronies WITH MY MONEY! After these events, there went my business but not quite yet all of my retirement and savings.

By this time, I’m thinking that it might be good for a change. Bye to California, I’ll try Austin for a while. So I moved, only to find out that this is a place with a highly inflated sense of self-importance and where damn little real engineering work is done. I’ve never experienced such a hard time finding work. The rates are 1/3 of what I was earning before the crash, because pay rates here are fixed by the three or four large companies in the area who are in collusion to drive down prices and wages… and this happens because the justice department is all on the take and doesn’t give a f*** about serving anyone or anything but themselves and their rich buddies.

To survive, I was forced to cannibalize my savings and retirement, the last of which was a small IRA. This came in a year with mammoth expenses and not a single dollar of income. I filed no return that year thinking that because I didn’t have any income there was no need. The sleazy government decided that they disagreed. But they didn’t notify me in time for me to launch a legal objection so when I attempted to get a protest filed with the court I was told I was no longer entitled to due process because the time to file ran out. Bend over for another $10,000 helping of justice.

So now we come to the present. After my experience with the CPA world, following the business crash I swore that I’d never enter another accountant’s office again. But here I am with a new marriage and a boatload of undocumented income, not to mention an expensive new business asset, a piano, which I had no idea how to handle. After considerable thought I decided that it would be irresponsible NOT to get professional help; a very big mistake.

When we received the forms back I was very optimistic that they were in order. I had taken all of the years information to Bill Ross, and he came back with results very similar to what I was expecting. Except that he had neglected to include the contents of Sheryl’s unreported income; $12,700 worth of it. To make matters worse, Ross knew all along this was missing and I didn’t have a clue until he pointed it out in the middle of the audit. By that time it had become brutally evident that he was representing himself and not me.

This left me stuck in the middle of this disaster trying to defend transactions that have no relationship to anything tax-related (at least the tax-related transactions were poorly documented). Things I never knew anything about and things my wife had no clue would ever matter to anyone. The end result is… well, just look around.

I remember reading about the stock market crash before the “great” depression and how there were wealthy bankers and businessmen jumping out of windows when they realized they screwed up and lost everything. Isn’t it ironic how far we’ve come in 60 years in this country that they now know how to fix that little economic problem; they just steal from the middle class (who doesn’t have any say in it, elections are a joke) to cover their asses and it’s “business-as-usual”. Now when the wealthy f*** up, the poor get to die for the mistakes… isn’t that a clever, tidy solution.

As government agencies go, the FAA is often justifiably referred to as a tombstone agency, though they are hardly alone. The recent presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies in their eight years certainly reinforced for all of us that this criticism rings equally true for all of the government. Nothing changes unless there is a body count (unless it is in the interest of the wealthy sows at the government trough). In a government full of hypocrites from top to bottom, life is as cheap as their lies and their self-serving laws.

I know I’m hardly the first one to decide I have had all I can stand. It has always been a myth that people have stopped dying for their freedom in this country, and it isn’t limited to the blacks, and poor immigrants. I know there have been countless before me and there are sure to be as many after. But I also know that by not adding my body to the count, I insure nothing will change. I choose to not keep looking over my shoulder at “big brother” while he strips my carcass, I choose not to ignore what is going on all around me, I choose not to pretend that business as usual won’t continue; I have just had enough.

I can only hope that the numbers quickly get too big to be white washed and ignored that the American zombies wake up and revolt; it will take nothing less. I would only hope that by striking a nerve that stimulates the inevitable double standard, knee-jerk government reaction that results in more stupid draconian restrictions people wake up and begin to see the pompous political thugs and their mindless minions for what they are. Sadly, though I spent my entire life trying to believe it wasn’t so, but violence not only is the answer, it is the only answer. The cruel joke is that the really big chunks of poop at the top have known this all along and have been laughing, at and using this awareness against, fools like me all along.

I saw it written once that the definition of insanity is repeating the same process over and over and expecting the outcome to suddenly be different. I am finally ready to stop this insanity. Well, Mr. Big Brother IRS man, let’s try something different; take my pound of flesh and sleep well.



The communist creed: From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

The capitalist creed: From each according to his gullibility, to each according to his greed.



Joe Stack (1956-2010)

02/18/2010

[allingeneral]

Embeddedart.com domain registry details:

Registrant:
Embedded Art
925 E Hwy 80
287
San Marcos, TX 78666
US

Domain name: EMBEDDEDART.COM


Administrative Contact:
Stack, Joe dns.5.sgmail@dfgh.net
925 E Hwy 80
287
San Marcos, TX 78666
US
1.3215649879
Technical Contact:
Stack, Joe dns.5.sgmail@dfgh.net
925 E Hwy 80
287
San Marcos, TX 78666
US
1.3215649879

[allingeneral]

The website has been taken offline. Here's the statement by the webhosting company as to why it has been disabled:

This website has been taken offline due to the sensitive nature of the events that transpired in Texas this morning and in compliance with a request from the FBI.

Regards,
T35 Hosting

So, although there was nothing illegal about this website - the Feds (FBI) had it removed from circulation. How ironic is it that this man is tired of federal government interaction in people's everyday lives, and this final act by the feds to remove his site "Because they wanted to"

[allingeneral]

Here is the website embeddedart.com as it looked when cached by archive.org on 22 June 2008

http://web.archive.org/web/200806222130 ... edart.com/

[gunderwood]

The website has been taken offline. Here's the statement by the webhosting company as to why it has been disabled:

This website has been taken offline due to the sensitive nature of the events that transpired in Texas this morning and in compliance with a request from the FBI.

Regards,
T35 Hosting

So, although there was nothing illegal about this website - the Feds (FBI) had it removed from circulation. How ironic is it that this man is tired of federal government interaction in people's everyday lives, and this final act by the feds to remove his site "Because they wanted to"

I doubt the irony will be lost on this crowd. Does this amount to censorship and violation of the 1st or is the FBI just scared of it encouraging others to take a stand? Either way, I think the more important question as a country is to understand how is it that our government drove someone to this end.

[zephyp]

Wow. What a saga this poor guy had. I hate to say it, but some day in the far future he could conceivably be seen as a patriot - if things get turned around and we move back to the roots our Founders planted for us.

I'd say we got the content of this man's last post right there. We have a will, a way, and means. I wonder if there is an appropriate web site name available for registration. No doubt people are searching on google using key words from what little news is available.

Shame on the FBI - jack booted thugs - for depriving this man of his 1st amendment rights purely because he committed a criminal act. Nothing illegal at all that I saw in that post and no reason that every US citizen should not have access to it...

[gunderwood]

Wow. What a saga this poor guy had. I hate to say it, but some day in the far future he could conceivably be seen as a patriot - if things get turned around and we move back to the roots our Founders planted for us.

I'd say we got the content of this man's last post right there. We have a will, a way, and means. I wonder if there is an appropriate web site name available for registration. No doubt people are searching on google using key words from what little news is available.

Shame on the FBI - jack booted thugs - for depriving this man of his 1st amendment rights purely because he committed a criminal act. Nothing illegal at all that I saw in that post and no reason that every US citizen should not have access to it...

How many people will seek it out now just because the FBI doesn't want them too? My guess is quite a few.

[zephyp]

Wow. What a saga this poor guy had. I hate to say it, but some day in the far future he could conceivably be seen as a patriot - if things get turned around and we move back to the roots our Founders planted for us.

I'd say we got the content of this man's last post right there. We have a will, a way, and means. I wonder if there is an appropriate web site name available for registration. No doubt people are searching on google using key words from what little news is available.

Shame on the FBI - jack booted thugs - for depriving this man of his 1st amendment rights purely because he committed a criminal act. Nothing illegal at all that I saw in that post and no reason that every US citizen should not have access to it...

How many people will seek it out now just because the FBI doesn't want them too? My guess is quite a few.

All the content and hints you need here in this thread. Help em out...

[OakRidgeStars]

Is it just me, or does the news footage of the front of that building look eerily like the aftermath of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City?.

[GS78]

good post Rick, keep it on here. I don't believe this guy will ever be seen as a hero of the movement, simply because in reality he was just as deranged as the University professor who killed fellow professors because she did not get what she wanted. We cannot condone this type of behavior, period. I agree the first ammendment also applies to "crazy talk" but just because your life has taken a turn for the worst , NEVER gives you the right to commit such a violent act on innocents. The people who worked in that building, most likely had nothing to do with this guys financial troubles, and even if they did, you cannot kill someone for causing you to lose money. This guy was just as nuts as ted kaczynski...

[gunderwood]

good post Rick, keep it on here. I don't believe this guy will ever be seen as a hero of the movement, simply because in reality he was just as deranged as the University professor who killed fellow professors because she did not get what she wanted. We cannot condone this type of behavior, period. I agree the first ammendment also applies to "crazy talk" but just because your life has taken a turn for the worst , NEVER gives you the right to commit such a violent act on innocents. The people who worked in that building, most likely had nothing to do with this guys financial troubles, and even if they did, you cannot kill someone for causing you to lose money. This guy was just as nuts as ted kaczynski...

Not to be contrary, but when you seemed focused mostly on him losing money. Not condemning or condoning his actions, but he seemed to be arguing that the IRS is tyranny. As for innocents, if you accept the premise that the IRS is tyranny, than they really aren't innocent. Just like troops who may be fixing equipment aren't directly engaging in combat, but are enemy troops none the less and we do kill them. Another way to look at is the just following orders is really an excuse. Doesn't work for soldiers, doesn't work for anyone in the private sector, why should it be ok in government? Just thinking out loud here, but it seems to be that the real premise, which steers one to two diametrically opposed positions (yours and Rick's) is if you accept that the IRS is tyranny or not. As a culture we seem to accept that violence is acceptable against tyranny, but have really hard time agreeing what tyranny is at home. British tyranny against Colonial America, North Korean tyranny, Iranian tyranny...all easy.

E.g. Most American's accept that the British Empire was tyrannical and thus think nothing immoral of the redcoats we killed to win our freedoms and found this county. About 1/3 of the American's at the time and most British didn't see it that way though.

Food for thought, nothing more.

[GS78]

good post Rick, keep it on here. I don't believe this guy will ever be seen as a hero of the movement, simply because in reality he was just as deranged as the University professor who killed fellow professors because she did not get what she wanted. We cannot condone this type of behavior, period. I agree the first ammendment also applies to "crazy talk" but just because your life has taken a turn for the worst , NEVER gives you the right to commit such a violent act on innocents. The people who worked in that building, most likely had nothing to do with this guys financial troubles, and even if they did, you cannot kill someone for causing you to lose money. This guy was just as nuts as ted kaczynski...

Not to be contrary, but when you seemed focused mostly on him losing money. Not condemning or condoning his actions, but he seemed to be arguing that the IRS is tyranny. As for innocents, if you accept the premise that the IRS is tyranny, than they really aren't innocent. Just like troops who may be fixing equipment aren't directly engaging in combat, but are enemy troops none the less and we do kill them. Another way to look at is the just following orders is really an excuse. Doesn't work for soldiers, doesn't work for anyone in the private sector, why should it be ok in government? Just thinking out loud here, but it seems to be that the real premise, which steers one to two diametrically opposed positions (yours and Rick's) is if you accept that the IRS is tyranny or not. As a culture we seem to accept that violence is acceptable against tyranny, but have really hard time agreeing what tyranny is at home. British tyranny against Colonial America, North Korean tyranny, Iranian tyranny...all easy.

E.g. Most American's accept that the British Empire was tyrannical and thus think nothing immoral of the redcoats we killed to win our freedoms and found this county. About 1/3 of the American's at the time and most British didn't see it that way though.

Food for thought, nothing more.

well then using this premise, what exactly is the definition of the highjackers from 9-11 in your opinion? Were they "fighting tyranny" as well , YOUR example not mine.You are not actually saying that people who work for the IRS deserve to be killed are you? REALLY?

[gunderwood]

good post Rick, keep it on here. I don't believe this guy will ever be seen as a hero of the movement, simply because in reality he was just as deranged as the University professor who killed fellow professors because she did not get what she wanted. We cannot condone this type of behavior, period. I agree the first ammendment also applies to "crazy talk" but just because your life has taken a turn for the worst , NEVER gives you the right to commit such a violent act on innocents. The people who worked in that building, most likely had nothing to do with this guys financial troubles, and even if they did, you cannot kill someone for causing you to lose money. This guy was just as nuts as ted kaczynski...

Not to be contrary, but when you seemed focused mostly on him losing money. Not condemning or condoning his actions, but he seemed to be arguing that the IRS is tyranny. As for innocents, if you accept the premise that the IRS is tyranny, than they really aren't innocent. Just like troops who may be fixing equipment aren't directly engaging in combat, but are enemy troops none the less and we do kill them. Another way to look at is the just following orders is really an excuse. Doesn't work for soldiers, doesn't work for anyone in the private sector, why should it be ok in government? Just thinking out loud here, but it seems to be that the real premise, which steers one to two diametrically opposed positions (yours and Rick's) is if you accept that the IRS is tyranny or not. As a culture we seem to accept that violence is acceptable against tyranny, but have really hard time agreeing what tyranny is at home. British tyranny against Colonial America, North Korean tyranny, Iranian tyranny...all easy.

E.g. Most American's accept that the British Empire was tyrannical and thus think nothing immoral of the redcoats we killed to win our freedoms and found this county. About 1/3 of the American's at the time and most British didn't see it that way though.

Food for thought, nothing more.

well then using this premise, what exactly is the definition of the highjackers from 9-11? weren't they "fighting tyranny" as well , by YOUR example, not mine.

There are a bunch of American's who agree with that statement...I think we call them Democrats.

Edit: One man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist, lest we forget that a lot of the terrorists and warlords in Afghanistan we supported against the Soviets.

[gunderwood]

You are not actually saying that people who work for the IRS deserve to be killed are you? REALLY?

I'm playing devil's advocate.

Edit: I like doing so to challenge everyone's assumptions and reactions. The huge emotional, non-thinking response to 9-11 is how we got the Patriot Act, etc.

[GS78]

You are not actually saying that people who work for the IRS deserve to be killed are you? REALLY?

I'm playing devil's advocate.

This guy made himself out to be a self proclaimed martyr. It seems to me that he was a failure in business, a failure in his marriage and from news reports as a father too. He blamed all of HIS failures on someone or something else. The tax code, 9-11, always something just beyond HIS CONTROL. Well this was his control. This was his last hoorah. He ultimately succeeded. He killed himself. In my opinion, he was just another weak minded individual looking for some form of notoriety no matter how perverse. He got his name in the news. Mission accomplished. While I am no fan of Big Government and certainly not the IRS, I am also not so diluted in my mind to think that if I fly a plane into a building I will somehow affect change in the machine. The machine will simply wash whats left of him off the sidewalk and rumble on.......

[gfost1]

Howdy, Y'all,

Thanks, Rick, for having the foresight to post Mr. Stack's closing argument before "Big Brother" silenced him.

Witholding judgement until I learn more, I can only say that at this point the guy doesn't strike me as a nut case at all.

Was his final act of defiance wrong? Of course. But crazy?

How would you expect one in his shoes to strike back at a faceless, nameless bureaucracy, if not in a totally impersonal and uncaring manner.

Regards,

George

[gunderwood]

You are not actually saying that people who work for the IRS deserve to be killed are you? REALLY?

I'm playing devil's advocate.

This guy made himself out to be a self proclaimed martyr. It seems to me that he was a failure in business, a failure in his marriage and from news reports as a father too. He blamed all of HIS failures on someone or something else. The tax code, 9-11, always something just beyond HIS CONTROL. Well this was his control. This was his last hoorah. He ultimately succeeded. He killed himself. In my opinion, he was just another weak minded individual looking for some form of notoriety no matter how perverse. He got his name in the news. Mission accomplished. While I am no fan of Big Government and certainly not the IRS, I am also not so diluted in my mind to think that if I fly a plane into a building I will somehow affect change in the machine. The machine will simply wash whats left of him off the sidewalk and rumble on.......

Much better argument than just he's crazy. I think you hit the nail on the head with this:

"I am also not so diluted in my mind to think that if I fly a plane into a building I will somehow affect change in the machine."

Men of principal will look for the best way to change the system when it is wrong vice simply what makes the biggest bang on the way out. Patrick Henry gave his give me liberty or give me death speech and then fought for it. He fought for it for himself, his family, and his countrymen. He fought to live free and did. He did not decide everyone else was a bunch of sheeple and go blow himself up in the local Tory pub. Cowards want to find the easiest way to die spectacularly. They do not want to be around to defend their actions.

Same with the 9/11 hijackers; like this guy, they were trying to make a statement vice change the system. In fact, I'm pretty certain that they don't want to change the system. Having an enemy does wonders for fund raising, recruitment and social standing. The same thing applies to Israel and the Middle East. External enemies take your citizens minds off of your failures. Such politics of distraction are not foreign to western governments either. Our Founding Father's wanted to change the system and if in the process their lives were required, so be it. Vastly different.

Accepting the premise that the IRS is tyranny makes it hard for some people to sympathize with those civil servants. I think a lot of American's sympathize with the premise that the IRS is tyranny. However, the problem it isn't so much that this guy decided to stand and fight (fight doesn't necessarily mean violence), but the means he choose illustrate that either he was an idiot (thinking this would change the machine) or he really wasn't trying to change the system, but rather to bring attention to himself.

Men of principal make a difference by living, although, sometimes their lives are required of them. The terrorist of 9/11 and this guy wanted to make a statement by dying. The two are not morally equivalent.

Well put sir, I tip my hat to you.

[gunderwood]

Howdy, Y'all,

Thanks, Rick, for having the foresight to post Mr. Stack's closing argument before "Big Brother" silenced him.

Witholding judgement until I learn more, I can only say that at this point the guy doesn't strike me as a nut case at all.

Was his final act of defiance wrong? Of course. But crazy?

How would you expect one in his shoes to strike back at a faceless, nameless bureaucracy, if not in a totally impersonal and uncaring manner.

Regards,

George

Crazy? No. Stupid and self gratifying? Yes. He went off half-cocked because he decided tyranny wasn't worth fighting against, but rather flipping the bird at.