America Rising: An Open Letter to Democrat Politicians

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America Rising: An Open Letter to Democrat Politicians

Post by zephyp »

I'm sure by now that many of you have already seen this. And I'm sure that some of the democrats have seen it although I'm certain that the key players (obama, pelosi, reid) have or will refuse to watch it. The liberals that have seen this are no doubt laughing out loud although I wonder what they are thinking and planning to do next. The take over of our health care is essentially a done deal and you can bet they are already plotting their next move. [Btw, if you think health care can be overturned think again. The liberal senators put a clause in the bill that certain portions cannot be repealed. So to accomplish this a future body will have to violate more rules. Where will that lead?] So, what are they plotting to do next? Who knows, but I'm certain it wont be good. They will be even more emboldened by passing this health care crap and will crow and preen themselves as they plot more destruction. I am sure that some of you think the liberals are on the run as evidenced by polls and the retirement of key senators. I am also sure that some of you think too that there will be a slaughter on 2 November 2010, but consider this -- 2 November is a long time away relatively speaking and the liberals can still do much damage. Some of you may have noticed that I've been more puckish lately than usual. To be blunt I am afraid. I feel helpless. I do not want to sit around and wait to see what these twits do next or how the mid-term elections go. I cannot afford to do that and neither can you. Having said that there are only three things on my agenda and all three are critical:

1. Try to lead my life as normally as possible until forced to do otherwise.
2. Participate in the 2010 mid-term elections. For me this will be more than just casting a vote.
3. Plan and prepare to live in an America radically changed by socialist democrats. You may not think this will actually happen, but it is an eventuality that we all may be forced to deal with.

For those of you that feel there are other things that can be done, I am open to suggestions. FYI, I am done writing letters, making phone calls, etc to elected leaders. They have proven beyond a doubt that they do not care and will not listen. I have more important things to do with my time.

Please dont forget about the new SHTF survival topic -- http://vagunforum.net/survival/

I might become one of our more popular sections in the near future.

EDIT: Btw, I missed one very important thing: Continue to trust God that He will carry us through. He may not fix things the way that we would like but He will see us through to the other side.

No more catchy slogans for me...I am simply fed up...4...four...4...2+2...

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Re: America Rising: An Open Letter to Democrat Politicians

Post by viiiball »

zephyp wrote:For those of you that feel there are other things that can be done, I am open to suggestions. FYI, I am done writing letters, making phone calls, etc to elected leaders. They have proven beyond a doubt that they do not care and will not listen. I have more important things to do with my time.
Here's a suggestion for you, how about you get involved in your own local politics. Run for a local office. Participate in the legislative process beyond writing letters. Take a true active role.
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Re: America Rising: An Open Letter to Democrat Politicians

Post by Username »

I 2009 I got about 10 people who otherwise have never held a gun to go shooting. I'm encouraging them to buy their own handgun, or rifle. That's something I know I can do, and hopefully when the time comes that will be 10 more people who vote for us keeping our gun rights.

In 2010, I certainly hope to get far more than 10 people.
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Re: America Rising: An Open Letter to Democrat Politicians

Post by zephyp »

viiiball wrote:
zephyp wrote:For those of you that feel there are other things that can be done, I am open to suggestions. FYI, I am done writing letters, making phone calls, etc to elected leaders. They have proven beyond a doubt that they do not care and will not listen. I have more important things to do with my time.
Here's a suggestion for you, how about you get involved in your own local politics. Run for a local office. Participate in the legislative process beyond writing letters. Take a true active role.
Federal law forbids that since I work for the government. As I stated above I do indeed to do more in the upcoming election that just vote. There is a lot of work to be done in that area alone. That is a true active role and the conservative candidates will need all the help they can get.
No more catchy slogans for me...I am simply fed up...4...four...4...2+2...

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Re: America Rising: An Open Letter to Democrat Politicians

Post by zephyp »

Username wrote:I 2009 I got about 10 people who otherwise have never held a gun to go shooting. I'm encouraging them to buy their own handgun, or rifle. That's something I know I can do, and hopefully when the time comes that will be 10 more people who vote for us keeping our gun rights.

In 2010, I certainly hope to get far more than 10 people.
Good thing to do but it is absolutely critical that we think beyond merely protecting our gun rights. To do anything less IMVHO is folly. Thats why we're in the situation we are in now. Too many citizens are only interested in what will directly impact them. I am extremely interested in protecting gun rights but also protecting our rights and freedoms in general. The Constitution isnt some ala carte document where we can pick and choose what we want to support.
No more catchy slogans for me...I am simply fed up...4...four...4...2+2...

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Re: America Rising: An Open Letter to Democrat Politicians

Post by Paliden »

In Nov 2010 our country will come to a fork in the road and history will be made either way we go, pray the people of our country take the right road!
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Re: America Rising: An Open Letter to Democrat Politicians

Post by graybeard321 »

I believe we are in for a long hard fight, The socialist democrats and their giveaway programs are buying the votes of the poor and uneducated and now they are also trying to grant amnesty to illegal’s. just another way to buy votes and make sure they stay in power.
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Re: America Rising: An Open Letter to Democrat Politicians

Post by wylde007 »

I believe the midterms are only going to be a stalling point on the inevitable long-haul.

They might slow down the despotism, but I do not believe we will actually see anything other than ego-brandishing. They will talk the talk but I doubt any walking will be done.

I know that sounds pessimistic, but I've got historical precedent on my side. The career politicians, republican and democrat alike, have no interest in anything but themselves. They are constantly campaigning for the next election, buying votes with earmarks and legislation tailored to one or another special-interest group that carries enough sway to give them the next electoral cycle.

And there's no way to get rid of them.
The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid.
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Re: America Rising: An Open Letter to Democrat Politicians

Post by LFS »

zephyp wrote: Federal law forbids that since I work for the government.
What does political office have to do with being law abiding? :whistle:
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Re: America Rising: An Open Letter to Democrat Politicians

Post by gatlingun6 »

The question is what can be done? Do I have it right? I'm a pretty average guy, so let me toss in my 2 cents.
First: As a previous President stated: "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself". Fear is the ever present companion of all too many posts. I might add that it's an unreasoned fear, but such is the nature of fear. FDR’s counsel was right then and right now.

Second: See the world as it is, not as those with ulterior motives want us to. Post after post paints our country in stark militaristic, divisive terms. Usually the division is liberal versus conservative (the classical Left Vs Right). Sometimes assumed derivatives such as libertarians, socialist, communist, and Marxist are thrown into the mix. Of course liberals are hell bent on destroying America. These people are not just political opponents, they are the enemy! Am I interested in a reasoned debate with an enemy? Most people say no, instead you fight them.

What's wrong with this picture? Everything! It's a fantasy; it's not the real America. The real America is a country with a rich diversity in economic, political, and social thought. They may be liberal on some issues and pretty conservative on others to varying degrees. This points to another reality. There is no monolithic conservative or liberal ideology. Since most here don the conservative mantel, ask and answer the following. What type conservative are you? Do you even know? Do you know the history of your professed ideology? For example, are you a paleoconservative, neoconservative, socioconservative, theoconservative, classical conservative, etc. These are a few, not all. Two examples: Conservatives were for and against free trade. Similarly they were for and against invading Iraq. Polls show most Americans when asked say they are conservative, but when asked what does that mean they can’t state its principles.

Do you really want to live in a country with politicians devoid of original thought who instead follow some monolithic principles based on what, or better yet who? You want to live in a country where ideas originate and are carried out in the confines of a single ideology? Here's the oddity, the world has seen and still has numerous countries exactly like that. None of them are successful and freedom of speech, thought, association and opinion exists in none of those States. Is that what you want? Be careful what you ask. To me the next great idea can and do come from any source.

Apparently some of you want a dogmatic political party. You've decided that will be the Republican Party, that is indeed strange. The party that once welcomed all views now becomes the party where conformance to dogma over critical thinking is a litmus test. An ideology first expressed, by what some call brilliant intellectual elites becomes the anti-intellectual party? Are you sure this is what you want? If this comes to past, and that effort is well under way, it will be a sad and ignominious end to a proud and great political party without which some of the greatest progress in American history could not have been made! Btw who leads this small tent Republican Party, who will it run for President in 2012?

As far as Democrats are concerned; We should remember, was it Mark Twain who said? "I don't belong to any organized political party, I'm a Democrat". The Democratic Party has always spanned the ideological spectrum. They still do. Anyone paying attention to the health care debate understands, that most of the debate (because Republicans decided early not to participate) is between the various wings of the Democratic Party. If Democrats were ideological unified bringing a bill to the President's desk would have taken maybe a month or so. And it sure as hell would not be the current bill.

Political, social, religious and economic diversity is a key advantage and strength of America. It's our not so secret weapon. Since I don't know I can't speak for other families. But I'm guessing my extended family is fairly typical. Politically, economically, socially and religiously our beliefs and religious practices are different. We live in all regions of the U.S., and we work, and have worked in numerous sectors. When we gather or chat online our debates are lively, spirited, and sometimes heated, but we love each other. We are not enemies because of these differences, nor are any evil, unpatriotic, unAmerican, etc. because of their views.

Third: What is this preoccupation and implicit logic that gun ownership somehow has anything to do with political, social or economic solutions? My love for guns is like an art lover’s love of art. There is an intrinsic beauty to a firearm, even a cheap one :pistol: . Some I fire and some I don't. Shooting is an exhilarating part of gun ownership. I'm not a hunter, so I prefer combative shooting. It's too bad there are not enough of those ranges around. However, if you are a hunter that's fine, have at it. I have no problem with people who own guns for personal protection, nor do I have a problem with concealed or open carry. I have my opinions, but no need to bore you with those.

My problem comes with that implicit and sometimes overtly stated argument that gun ownership protects anyone from our government. They clearly do not. American history is replete with instances of armed revolt against the State, none succeeded. If the largest, most organized, best led, and sustained revolt against the State, the civil war, did not succeed, and was put down with a terrible loss of life, why would anyone harbor such illusions. Is there anyone who really thinks that the police and armed forces would not similarly crush an armed revolt? Or are you thinking the bulk of those forces would disobey and join the dissident side. The historical fact is that political, economic, and social causes when they have succeeded have done so by peaceful means.
From various posts it seems clear that some think that only conservatives own or love guns. That simply is not true. Here comes an opinion. My guess is that's because most people don't see gun ownership as having anything to do with political solutions to governance. So they never join the gun debate.

Ok, enough for now, but relax America will be fine.
Respectfully Jim
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Re: America Rising: An Open Letter to Democrat Politicians

Post by zephyp »

gatlingun6 wrote:The question is what can be done? Do I have it right? I'm a pretty average guy, so let me toss in my 2 cents....
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No more catchy slogans for me...I am simply fed up...4...four...4...2+2...

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Re: America Rising: An Open Letter to Democrat Politicians

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gatlingun6 wrote:The question is what can be done? Do I have it right? I'm a pretty average guy, so let me toss in my 2 cents....
FDR also said:

"In our personal ambitions we are individualists. But in our seeking for economic and political progress as a nation, we all go up or else all go down as one people."

It seems we're all in this together, but what I get from your post is you'd prefer we all just keep gun ownership in one pocket and our political beliefs in another?

Come to think of it, I see a lot of words, but I don't have a damn clue what you said of any substance and this will be the fourth time I waded through that morass of text.

No offense, I sure love a good debate but give me the meat and bones of it if you're really out to discuss it.
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Re: America Rising: An Open Letter to Democrat Politicians

Post by gfost1 »

gatlingun6 wrote:The question is what can be done? Do I have it right? I'm a pretty average guy, so let me toss in my 2 cents.
Howdy, Jim,

The implied promise of an answer to "the question" led me to read and re-read your post. For whatever reason, I was unable to locate one. If there is an answer within, would you mind restating it, perhaps in one or two paragraphs that a classical conservatard like myself can understand?

Regards,

George
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Re: America Rising: An Open Letter to Democrat Politicians

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gfost1 wrote:
gatlingun6 wrote:The question is what can be done? Do I have it right? I'm a pretty average guy, so let me toss in my 2 cents.
Howdy, Jim,

The implied promise of an answer to "the question" led me to read and re-read your post. For whatever reason, I was unable to locate one. If there is an answer within, would you mind restating it, perhaps in one or two paragraphs that a classical conservatard like myself can understand?

Regards,

George
I'm glad I wasn't the only one George, I like you read it many times but arrived at a similar conclusion. I really didn't want to be mean about it, I just failed to find the point.
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Re: America Rising: An Open Letter to Democrat Politicians

Post by WildBill44 »

There are sheep, and sheep dogs, there are talkers, and doers. The old idea that if you can't use facts, dazzle them with footwork, or cover them with BS. I see no facts, or footwork.....sooooo....you know what that leaves! :thumbsdown:
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Re: America Rising: An Open Letter to Democrat Politicians

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Username wrote:
gatlingun6 wrote:The question is what can be done? Do I have it right? I'm a pretty average guy, so let me toss in my 2 cents....
FDR also said:

"In our personal ambitions we are individualists. But in our seeking for economic and political progress as a nation, we all go up or else all go down as one people."

It seems we're all in this together, but what I get from your post is you'd prefer we all just keep gun ownership in one pocket and our political beliefs in another?

Come to think of it, I see a lot of words, but I don't have a damn clue what you said of any substance and this will be the fourth time I waded through that morass of text.

No offense, I sure love a good debate but give me the meat and bones of it if you're really out to discuss it.
Interesting username that you added the remainder of FDR's quote, but your post indicates you don't believe it. Since you can't or won't follow a detailed discussion let me simplify.
1. As with everything else in America gun owners are a diverse group who do not follow a monolithic political ideology.
2. Armed revolt against our government has never succeeded in significantly changing America,and it never will.
3. Bringing a gun to a political meeting is just plain silly. Just because you can do something doesn't mean it makes sense to do it. What's the point?
4. America's diversity is America's strength. It is what sets us apart from the rest of the World, so why would anyone want to give that up in the interest of sameness?
5. Americans with whom I differ are not my enemy.
Is that simple enough for you to understand, or do I have to go the ABC route?
Respectfully Jim
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Re: America Rising: An Open Letter to Democrat Politicians

Post by gatlingun6 »

WildBill44 wrote:There are sheep, and sheep dogs, there are talkers, and doers. The old idea that if you can't use facts, dazzle them with footwork, or cover them with BS. I see no facts, or footwork.....sooooo....you know what that leaves! :thumbsdown:
\

Sorry Wildbill: That's not how I roll. I have no interest in trading ad hominen attacks. But if that's what you like, so be it. It's very telling when a debate opponent reaches for that tactic. I'll continue to use reason, and you can continue with ... . I really think you can do better, oh well.
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Re: America Rising: An Open Letter to Democrat Politicians

Post by USMCGunner »

zephyp wrote: Good thing to do but it is absolutely critical that we think beyond merely protecting our gun rights. To do anything less IMVHO is folly. Thats why we're in the situation we are in now. Too many citizens are only interested in what will directly impact them. I am extremely interested in protecting gun rights but also protecting our rights and freedoms in general. The Constitution isnt some ala carte document where we can pick and choose what we want to support.
gatlingun6 wrote:
Third: What is this preoccupation and implicit logic that gun ownership somehow has anything to do with political, social or economic solutions? My love for guns is like an art lover’s love of art. There is an intrinsic beauty to a firearm, even a cheap one :pistol: . Some I fire and some I don't. Shooting is an exhilarating part of gun ownership. I'm not a hunter, so I prefer combative shooting. It's too bad there are not enough of those ranges around. However, if you are a hunter that's fine, have at it. I have no problem with people who own guns for personal protection, nor do I have a problem with concealed or open carry. I have my opinions, but no need to bore you with those.

My problem comes with that implicit and sometimes overtly stated argument that gun ownership protects anyone from our government. They clearly do not. American history is replete with instances of armed revolt against the State, none succeeded. If the largest, most organized, best led, and sustained revolt against the State, the civil war, did not succeed, and was put down with a terrible loss of life, why would anyone harbor such illusions.
When ever the political conversations spark up at work or where ever, people often assume that I am a Republican because I drive a big diesel F250, I hunt, I own and enjoy guns, I'm a quasi-outdoorsman and most of all I am very critical of three stooges running the country right now. Truth is, far from it. I only end up voting republican 99.9% of the time based on one factor and one factor alone. And that is the protection of my gun rights. I look at each candidate's voting record as it relates to gun control. To most, this may seem very simplistic. And it is, but hear me out. For me, it's a little more than just whether or not "thur comin to git ma guns." My view/philosophy is if THEY are willing to take away my right to own/carry/use a firearm legally as a law biding citizen to hunt and more importantly protect myself and my family from those who don't feel they are bound by law, then THEY are also willing to take away any of my other rights; subsequently turning this county into a mirror image of Western European nanny state.

This position, sometimes argument, is not only my true belief, but it also works very well when confronted with opposition. Many times, I've shut down the conversation because IT IS so simplistic that the "opponent" can't think of any substantial retort. And they actually start thinking beyond the point of just "guns bad." I attempt to relate the argument in terms they can understand. And, I say humbly, have converted a few from the dark side. When ever the topic of guns arises in a political conversation, I take the politics out of the conversation and present the individual with real life possibilities. You come home and find the door kicked in and see someone brutally raping your wife. Are you going to politely ask the gentleman to stop, offer them $20 and a warm bed with a sandwich and promise to take them to a rehabilitation center in the morning? No, if you had access to a gun, they'd leave your house in a bag. There's a lot more to the conversations, of course. More examples, questions, answers and debating than I could write about in one post. But the simple fact is, there is, IMO, a very good reason for gun rights to be at the top of the list. Our Freedom.

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Re: America Rising: An Open Letter to Democrat Politicians

Post by gatlingun6 »

graybeard321 wrote:I believe we are in for a long hard fight, The socialist democrats and their giveaway programs are buying the votes of the poor and uneducated and now they are also trying to grant amnesty to illegal’s. just another way to buy votes and make sure they stay in power.
Greybeard enlighten me: What are these giveaway programs you hate? Since you only mentioned Democrats, I assume you think Republicans are in your corner? I'm going to take another guess and bet that you have never, ever taken a look at what lobbyists are in DC, representing whom? Are you really that naive to think that money goes to Republican politicians to benefit you? I'll give kudos to the Republican leadership elite since they have managed to divide and conquer, and cause some people to vote against their own interests. What do I mean? Well, there is a county in West Virginia that has reliably voted Republican for 65 years, yet that same county depends on government spending for their well being.

I get what you are against since that's the subject of almost every post! How about what you are for? Can you state that beyond trite and over used slogans and phrases? We estimate there are 12 or more million people illegally in the U.S. so what should we do, and how? Should we continue the wet foot, dry foot policy for Cubans?
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Re: America Rising: An Open Letter to Democrat Politicians

Post by gatlingun6 »

USMCGunner:

Your post was just fine initially. Single issue American voters are many and varied, and that's fine. Nothing says any of us have to consider one, a few, or all issues before deciding which political candidate to support. In fact, we can cast our vote based on anything. That's an absolute right!

No justification was required, but you went on to commit the fallacy of the "strawman". You constructed a situation to fit your rationale when you didn't need to. The problem is I could construct an endless number of likely situations surrounding the same action where your gun would be useless. However, I won't since even in hypothetical situations I simply will not refer to someone else's family members to make a point.

Respectfully, Jim
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