Hearing Protection Suggestions?

[viiiball]

I am in the market for a new set of ears. I have been doing a lot more shooting lately and the 25 NRR pair I have been wearing just are not doing the trick for me. I am usually doubling up with a pair of foam inserts as well.

Do you have a set of ears you really like?

I am thinking about the Pro Ears 33 muffs. Not sure I need the electronic ones as I do very little talking with others while at the range. But if there is a real benefit to the electronic ones I will consider.

Thanks

[zephyp]

I use a regular pair of 32 NRR muffs. I believe 33 NRR is the max on the market. Btw, by putting in foam inserts under the muffs you only increase the NRR rating by 1 or 2 points. You can only cut out so much noise. I've never used electronic so am also interested to see what others are saying.

[GS78]

I use the foam inserts alone...... what?!

[zephyp]

I use the foam inserts alone...... what?!

Some of the better foam inserts will give you 32 NRR if you put them in right. Nothing wrong with those at all...

[viiiball]

I use a regular pair of 32 NRR muffs.

What brand do you have?

[zephyp]

They're Remington and I was wrong. They are 30 not 32. I moved up to them from a 24 NRR and what a difference. They are comfortable and high profile which some dont like. I find that they do not interfere when shooting a rifle or shotgun. I'd buy another pair in a heartbeat for the price...link below.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templ ... hasJS=true

[wally626]

I use a set of 12 NRR ear plugs with electronic Ear Muffs rated for 23 NRR. http://www.amazon.com/Caldwell-Electron ... 24&sr=1-21 Seems wot work well, the amplifier overcomes the earplugs so that for normal noise I can hear and for load stuff I get the benefit of both.

It is true that the plugs only add a few dB to the noise reduction rating but the ear plugs and muffs stop noise better at different frequencies so although at a limited amount of frequencies it is only a little better for a lot of frequencies it is substantially better.

[jdonovan]

I whole heartedly suggest you goto an audiologist and have a set of custom molded plugs made.

The best money I've ever spent.

When doubled up with a set of pro ears 33 non-electronic muffs... its like being in my own silence chamber.

[zephyp]

Man I cant shut everything off. Hard enough for me to hear as it is and of course worse with muffs. Young could use a set though. She gets real jumpy on the range especially indoors when the magnums are popping.

[GS78]

I understand the need for hearing protection for "practice" but new shooters should also fire a few rounds with no ears too, they won't be wearing them in an emergency.....

[zephyp]

I understand the need for hearing protection for "practice" but new shooters should also fire a few rounds with no ears too, they won't be wearing them in an emergency.....

Funny you mention this. I dont ever recall hearing or being spooked by a shot hunting in the bush when I pull the trigger. I've never dropped the hammer in an emergency but I suspect it would be a similar issue. I think our body takes over certain functions when the adrenalin is pumping and then some things dont matter anymore...

[GS78]

I understand the need for hearing protection for "practice" but new shooters should also fire a few rounds with no ears too, they won't be wearing them in an emergency.....

Funny you mention this. I dont ever recall hearing or being spooked by a shot hunting in the bush when I pull the trigger. I've never dropped the hammer in an emergency but I suspect it would be a similar issue. I think our body takes over certain functions when the adrenalin is pumping and then some things dont matter anymore...

I didn't mention it to imply anyone would be "spooked" I meant that your ears will be ringing for a while depending on what your shooting....besides, you're not exactly a "new shooter"...... ... I guess what I mean is that when I encounter a new shooter, I allow them to experience the full effects of the weapon........ ,how's that?

[viiiball]

I understand the need for hearing protection for "practice" but new shooters should also fire a few rounds with no ears too, they won't be wearing them in an emergency.....

I would have to very much disagree with this. I know the point you are trying to make but the chance that someone has to use their firearm in an emergency are so slim the "experience" of no ears does in no way out weigh the chances of permanent hearing damage. The sound of a gunshot, even a small caliber like a .22 creates enough noise to damage your ears and once your hearing is damaged it can not be repaired.

I would strong recommend you not continue this practice for the sake of your new shooters hearing.

[zephyp]

I didn't mention it to imply anyone would be "spooked" I meant that your ears will be ringing for a while depending on what your shooting....besides, you're not exactly a "new shooter"...... ... I guess what I mean is that when I encounter a new shooter, I allow them to experience the full effects of the weapon........ ,how's that?

Ok... I can understand... ...that line... ...of thinking... ...New shooters... ...should get the full... ...GS78... ...experience...





I wudnt jerk yer chain if I didnt like ye...and I've never even seen ya...u cud be one of em are revenuers...

[gunderwood]

I am thinking about the Pro Ears 33 muffs.

I have two of these and there are very good muffs. I usually wear plugs when I am shooting long range rifles as ear muffs tend to get in the way...these a little more than most as they are large. They use 4x N batteries which are not cheap (camera section of Wal-Mart is the cheapest I have found). Battery life isn't bad though. They do amplify sound, but there is a little bit of static at high amplification...nothing bad, but does get old after a couple of hours hunting. Don't notice it at the range. The only real complaint I have against them is that it is too easy for them to get turned on. Have to be careful throwing these into your range bag or you will find the batteries drained next trip.

Btw, by putting in foam inserts under the muffs you only increase the NRR rating by 1 or 2 points. You can only cut out so much noise. I've never used electronic so am also interested to see what others are saying.

I will disagree with this. I use NRR 32 earplugs and the Pro Ears 33 when shooting my fifty and there is a HUGE difference having the second set in. I notice a big difference at indoor shooting ranges too. Of course it depends on the plugs and how you seat them (I seat them pretty deep as I like my hearing).


General comment about shooting without ears. I have done it, but it isn't pleasant if you are just target shooting. Hunting you don't seem to notice as much. The human brain can shut things down when stressed or really focused and I suspect this is why self-defence (no first hand experience here) and hunting it doesn't seem to bother as much. However, the one time I tried it on a range I was startled at how bad it was compared to other situations. Was an out door range, so I thought it wouldn't be much different, but it was.

Hearing damage is cumulative; i.e. every shot adds to your hearing loss and you do lose hearing with every shot. A small number of shots doesn't do much, but over time it adds up. This is true regardless of how you perceive the shot (see above). I now even hunt with my electronic muffs.

[zephyp]

You might see a huge diff when using foam inserts and muffs but AFAIK 33 NRR is the max no matter how you slice it...at least that was what I found out when I did some research a few months ago on the subject. When I use both I notice a difference but not that much and I am pretty experienced with using foam inserts. Comes from Army days on the range. Another poster noted the same thing and added that the benefit is you cut out certain frequencies when using both. So there is definitely a benefit but you can only shut out so much sound as it travels in waves and will cause vibrations through the muffs and the inserts.

[gunderwood]

You might see a huge diff when using foam inserts and muffs but AFAIK 33 NRR is the max no matter how you slice it...at least that was what I found out when I did some research a few months ago on the subject. When I use both I notice a difference but not that much and I am pretty experienced with using foam inserts. Comes from Army days on the range. Another poster noted the same thing and added that the benefit is you cut out certain frequencies when using both. So there is definitely a benefit but you can only shut out so much sound as it travels in waves and will cause vibrations through the muffs and the inserts.

I'll still disagree. See here: http://www.coopersafety.com/NoiseReduction.aspx

They specifically point out that wearing both provides increased protection. The perceived impact of wearing both plugs and muff is dependant on the individual. However, it should be noted that the measurable impact of wearing both and the dB scale is non-linear. Every 3dB increase in the noise doubles its power.

They list gunfire at 140dB. That is somewhat misleading as it depends on the firearm of course. If I recall correctly the military defines any sound reduction device for a firearm as hearing safe if it is below 140dB. This was from the annual small arms conference they sponsor; I believe the powerpoint on sound suppressors and the M82/107. They measured a max of 179dB for the spotter.

NRR is a rating system with certain assumptions (such as 100dB pink noise, see here: http://www.elvex.com/NRR.htm) that are generic and not specific to gun fire. It is entirely possible that a lower NRR rated plug or muff provides better protection against gun fire noise than a higher rated plug or muff. The NRR is an weighted average across several frequencies, not all of which apply to gun fire.

The problem with hearing protection and gun fire is usually with long guns, specifically those with muzzle breaks. The concussive wave is transfered through the firearm and transfers to you more efficiently (than air) through your cheekbones. In your ear you have little "hairs" that respond to certain frequencies. Hearing loss occurs when these "hairs" essentially fall down and no longer vibrate at that frequency. By definition, if you heard the gun shot, the sound wave traveled through the muff and/or your head.

[viiiball]

It is entirely possible that a lower NRR rated plug or muff provides better protection against gun fire noise than a higher rated plug or muff.

So is there any data on which NRR rating is best for gun shot noise?

[gunderwood]

It is entirely possible that a lower NRR rated plug or muff provides better protection against gun fire noise than a higher rated plug or muff.

So is there any data on which NRR rating is best for gun shot noise?

I know of no such test and I doubt anyone would bother to be honest. The first problem would be marketing. Lets assume you could create an plug/muff like you suggest. It would be awesome for certain frequencies, but might be awful for others. Since NRR is a weighted average, the NRR score would be low in this case.

Second, there really isn't much innovation in this market. More material generally gives a better NRR. Everyone is using more of less the same materials. The only new thing on the block as far as I know of is the plugs using the hocks noise brake filter. Essentially, they are creating shapes/materials that have a non-linear response to dB. Softer noises, very low dB reduction. Loud noises, large dB reduction. A Hocks break is suppose to convert high dB sound into heat (don't worry you can't feel it). The NRR is lower than standard plugs, but NRR assumes 100dB which is above Surefire's 80dB marketing threshold and below any real gun fire. I have seen some test data (manufacturer funded) that "shows" the dB being 30+ at gun fire dB levels.

Look at these: http://www.surefire.com/EP3-Sonic-Defenders

Edit: Here is a link on the Hocks brake.
http://www.noisebrakers.com/howitworks.php

[zephyp]

gunderwoos - not disagreeing with you. As I said there is definitely a benefit to using both. I'm only saying that you can only cut out so much noise even by using both.