newb reloader

[treedinva]

I am new to handguns just having purchased my first, a Taurus 1911. Like most endeavors I jumped in the deep end and began reloading. Nothing blew up which is great but the stuff I load does not seem as accurate as the stuff I have bought.

I know from researching that everyone has their favorite stuff and really don't want this to turn into one of those threads. As opposed to lots of trial I was hoping someone that actually knows what they are doing could give me some ideas as to what I might be doing wrong.

I am not sure what info I could provide to facilitate your yelp?

Thanks, Thomas

[Palladin]

Thomas I just got into pistol reloading myself, past 10 months it's been primary in all my free time. What I've learned is load (all components and the dimensions to which they are assembled) is a finely tuned internal combustion engine with a free floating piston that you want delivered to the target precisely the same way every time. Currently my handloads, with cast lead projectiles, are more accurate than WWB or PMC 230gr FMJ. about 3/4 power but sweet shooting, which is what I'm looking for given the volume of shooting I'd like to be doing.
I'm probably the blind leading the blind, but I'd be glad to help you if I can..., and I'm sure the others here can help you if I can't!

Start with all components.

[SgtBill]

Thomas you will have to list what type of load you are doing now to include type and weight of the slug. Type and weight of the powder charge type of primer. Roll crimp or no crimp etc. If we don't know what you are doing then we can't help.
Bill

[treedinva]

Thomas you will have to list what type of load you are doing now to include type and weight of the slug. Type and weight of the powder charge type of primer. Roll crimp or no crimp etc. If we don't know what you are doing then we can't help.
Bill

I will do my best:

.45 acp

230gr copper coated round (rainier sp?)

5.6gr universal (hogdon sp?) powder

After pressing projectile the length of round is 1.260

Wolf lg pistol primers

No crimp

Thanks

[Palladin]

Could be hot for plated...
Bill?

[Paliden]

Well your doing the right thing by asking questions. I've loaded off and on for over 20+ years. Guns are different, loads are different, what works for me may or may not work for you. Here's my rules I follow.
1: write down every load you find
2: when you see a pattern start there, start low 5 rounds at a time and work up
3: start with a clean cold gun each test load ALWAYS!!!!
4: write down each results, temp and humidity
5: try different powder and what different books they vary a lot!!!
Yea it's time consuming but it's fun, run a search on line (ex madcap reload data) it will take you to some good sites with lots of data.
Good Luck and have some fun with it
Paliden

[Vahunter]

First start with adding a crimp. Don't over do it. Second I don't have any experience with wolfe primers but I doubt if they will set any accuracy records if they are anything like wolfe ammo. It goes bang everytime and that's about it.

[Palladin]

First start with adding a crimp. Don't over do it. Second I don't have any experience with wolfe primers but I doubt if they will set any accuracy records if they are anything like wolfe ammo. It goes bang everytime and that's about it.

+1 on the crimp. I don't have any experience with H. Universal, but I still think 5.6gr is too stiff for a plated bullet. They don't hold up pushing them as hard as a jacketed bullet. In getting into the experimenting thing, I've started with Titegroup and Trailboss, just getting into a pound of Bullseye, with Unique, Clays, and Red Dot on the shelf for future fun. What led you to choose your components - was it all you could get your hands on?

[zephyp]

.45 is a good round to reload and I would stick with that until you get the hang. Brass inspection is a key first step. Make sure they are not deformed, split, or cracked before you throw them in the tumbler if you are using one. Trash the ones that have any damage. Brass is cheap. You and your gun aint!!!

Another key thing is to check each case after its been fired especially for new loads you're working with. You want to check for excessive pressure. Look at the primer for any signs of flattening or parallel marks. If you see this you're too hot and need to back off the charge some.

Another tip for new reloads you've never fired before. First shot with only one in the mag. That way if you have a serious problem with pressure and it blows up there aint 6 or 7 more below it...

[treedinva]

Thanks for the tips, of course I have a few questions.

It sounds like the lower the projectile velocity the greater the accuracy if I read into your answers properly?

I am confused how a primer has any impact whatsoever, all it does is ignite the powder? Please help me understand this better.

I thought I read somewhere that the .45 acp should not be crimped. I might be wrong, If I should crimp either I need another die or I don't know how to use the ones I have? The one I use to push the bullet in doesn't look like it can be used to crimp?

Nobody here mentioned it but from reading everyone seems to have an OAL preference. Does length affect accuracy and if so how? Is there a general rule like more velocity = less accurate?

What is the difference between jacketed and plated? I thought they were synonymous.

[Palladin]

You old dogs chase me back under the porch if I'm steering him wrong with these answers.

What is the difference between jacketed and plated? I thought they were synonymous.
Not equal... If they were, plated would put jacketed out of business because they're cheaper. I posted some pics of the plating on these two types of bulk bullets in this thread. http://vagunforum.net/ammunition/anyone ... t1845.html

It sounds like the lower the projectile velocity the greater the accuracy if I read into your answers properly Not necessarily, typically every load (read combination of components) has a sweet spot of pressure/velocity that is more accurate than on either side. this is where the testing comes in. And don't forget that your gun (chamber, leade, and barrel) is one of the components.

More to come this evening on your other questions... got to get back to work right now!

[Palladin]

I am confused how a primer has any impact whatsoever, all it does is ignite the powder? Please help me understand this better.

How fast it lights the powder is whats key. A hotter flame front can change the pressure curve, which is very important in the short confines of a pistol. Finding the balance between getting it on and getting it on too early is what's critical. The existence of match grade primers kind of answers this issue too - you get what you pay for. This post has some voices of experience chiming in on the interchangeability of magnum and standard primers.
http://vagunforum.net/ammunition/magnum ... t2179.html

[gfost1]

I thought I read somewhere that the .45 acp should not be crimped. I might be wrong, If I should crimp either I need another die or I don't know how to use the ones I have? The one I use to push the bullet in doesn't look like it can be used to crimp?

Howdy, Treedinva,

There are two types of crimps common in handgun ammo
1) Roll crimp, used on revolver ammo. The case mouth is rolled over to secure the bullet, usually into a cannellure, (groove) around the circumference of the bullet.
2) Taper crimp, used on semi-auto ammo. Most semi-auto straight-walled handgun ammo headspaces on the case mouth, so the roll crimp is not recommended. A taper crimp works sort of like the resizing die in that it (more-or-less) evenly compresses the case walls after the bullet has been seated to hold the bullet securely. Many pistol dies of recent mfgr apply this type of crimp to semi-auto rounds. I imagine this is the case for your die set, otherwise you would be having problems chambering your loads because the case mouth would probably still be oversized from the expander die.
The taper crimp is harder to spot on visual inspection, but if your bullets aren't falling out, you're probably ok. Some adjustment may be in order, the die mfgrs web site may offer guidelines. Generally speaking, the deeper you set the round in the die, the greater the amount of crimp, although some dies require you to seat the round fully and depend on case length to insure the proper amount of crimp.

Regards,

George

[Vahunter]

I'm using 4.5 grains of titegroup behind a 230 grain lead ball projectile in my .45. Your seating die should be set up to crimp as George mentioned . But then again that depends on the brand of dies you are using.

[Palladin]

Hodgdon lists the 5.6gr Universal as the max for a 230 gr jacketed FP, and 5.4gr as max for a 230gr lead RN.
Since plated bullets perform more like lead than jacketed, this is where I think you might want to back off a .5gr or so, and see how they perform....

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.as

[zephyp]

Thanks for the tips, of course I have a few questions.

It sounds like the lower the projectile velocity the greater the accuracy if I read into your answers properly?

I am confused how a primer has any impact whatsoever, all it does is ignite the powder? Please help me understand this better.

I thought I read somewhere that the .45 acp should not be crimped. I might be wrong, If I should crimp either I need another die or I don't know how to use the ones I have? The one I use to push the bullet in doesn't look like it can be used to crimp?

Nobody here mentioned it but from reading everyone seems to have an OAL preference. Does length affect accuracy and if so how? Is there a general rule like more velocity = less accurate?

What is the difference between jacketed and plated? I thought they were synonymous.

Many things affect accuracy and many of us reload to finds the perfect formula for a particular load. You have to tweak the variables to find the sweet spot - brass, bullet, powder, charge, and primer. They all have an impact on accuracy and performance.

OAL is a critical factor in pressure. If you seat the bullet too deep then you can have a pressure problem. Not enough and it may not chamber. The loads in your manual have all been tested wrt charge, bullet weight, and OAL. The specs are there for your safety.

Jacketed is when a copper jacket is formed around the lead core (usually with a press.) Plated is a process where the lead cores are electroplated with copper. The 2 types are not synonymous although they provide similar results. The big difference is jacketed bullets have a thicker copper shell than plated.

Hope this helps.

[treedinva]

Thanks for the tips. It sounds like I am going to have to do some experimenting. At least I have a better understanding of the variables now.

[arkypete]

Consider, there's many that when asked 'What time is it', they will respond with how to build a watch.
When I began to shoot Bullseye, not very well, I asked some of the older guys what to do, what loads would work best.
It was fairly uniform 4.5 grains of Bullseye, WW primer, 200 grain cast H&G #68 sized ,452 with what ever cases I had.
Worked like a charm, never saw any reason to change.

Jim

[gunderwood]

What equipment are you using? Knowing what you use can help everyone give good advice. E.g. I use Dillon dies and a Dillon 550 press, so my crimping is done after the bullet is seated with a separate die; this is different than the advice above concerning crimping because they work differently.

Max loads rarely ever give max accuracy. Most reloading books explain this. Which one(s) do you have? Buy several. Try to get at least one from your bullet manufacturer and from your powder manufacturer. You will notice that even with identical components they list different loads. This is because they measure pressure differently and/or have different ideas on a safe level of pressure. I.e. Maximum Average Pressure (MAP) minus 10% or 15% or 25% are common numbers. There are tools like QuickLoad that are models and can be very useful, but I must stress they are models. The second primary reason is because lots vary. This is why everyone recommends you start low and work your way up.

As noted here: http://www.rainierballistics.com/mainframe.htm
Use lead data not jacketed! Here is Hodgdon's data for the Hornady Lead Round Nose (LRN):

Bullet Powder COL Starting Charge grains Max Charge grains
230 GR. LRN Hodgdon Universal .452" 1.200" 4.5 703 11,400 CUP 5.4 857 16,800 CUP

According to QL, Hodgdon's max load is MAP-20% for the .45ACP. However, as others noted and as Rainier suggests, lead or plated rounds can not be shot at jacketed velocities.

Recommendations
QL says your load density is only 66.8% Low density loads usually are not as accurate due to powder ignition inconsistency. Try a slower/less dense powder like Vihtavuori N-340 or Unique. Hodgdon recommends flat point bullets (like wad cutters) and N-340, Unique, and HS-6 for accuracy loaded to 800fps (230gr bullets). As was noted earlier a lot of competition guys shoot the lighter stuff around 200grs or so. Don't need the added recoil. Try better primers. Winchester or Federal Match are good places to start. CCI isn't bad and probably easier to find right now. Light crimp.

Get a chronograph if you plan on continuing to reload

[treedinva]

I have been trying a lot of combinations but because of the weather have not really been able to fire many. I did find that my dies will allow for a crimp. I have the crimp set to what seems to be a minimum in that it is only reversing what my sizing die is doing. It may even be a little flare below the crimp remaining. My question is that occasionally I am seeing small strings of brass being removed during the crimp process. This cant be good, any ideas what I am doing wrong?