How do you feel about sharing guns?

[TrentM]

Hello;
I am new to this website and new to Richmond as well. I live SW of Richmond in the country. I am a gun lover, reloader and gun advocate.
I could use a little help here.

I am mad as hell and want to take some positive action to turn the tide on the Anti-gun crowd and shed the politicians who consistently vote to destroy our Constitutional Rights.
I cannot find powder, 22 LR ammo, bullets and now cheap factory ammo for an AR when I need it.
Complaining to your Congressman is not working. Only votes count. We need more votes.

Problem:
Continual decline in the number of active gun sports participants. It is a fact, every year people stop shooting, turn their guns in, lock them up or simply give them away.
Read this article:
http://taskforce2020.org/TOC.cfm
Listen to my friend Kenn Blanchard, the Black Man With A Gun, as he identifies himself on his iTunes Weekly Podcast with more than 400 shows since 2008.
blackmanwithagun.com

Why even consider sharing guns?
What is the difference in owning and renting/sharing?
It is controversial, messy and fraught with obstacles to overcome. You may not know this, but sharing of guns has been a long tradition of some Youth Sport Shooting organizations.
It is perfectly legal as well.

My purpose for this discussion is to invite feedback, open discussion on this topic.

Attendees to get free box of CCI 22LR
Holding Focus Group Meetings (Limited to 10 persons)
Green Top, Bass Pro and Colonial Shooting Academy starting March 18, 2015

Should any of you Richmond Area shooters be willing to participate in a small focus group on this topic, you can register to for one of our meetings starting March 18th. There is no cost.
http://shareguns.com
First come basis. I have also invited a representative from each store to participate.

If you wish to comment here that is fine too. Any and all comments are welcome.
Or, I will be glad to speak with you by phone.

I have nothing to sell here. This is only an idea that I wish to explore. Maybe there is an opportunity, may be not.

Solutions vs Rhetoric:

That is the mission of ShareGuns.com is to promote shooting sports to both existing shooters who are no longer participating in the sport as much as they used to and to bring new people into the sport.

What if... you could invest the same amount as you would into one gun and every month you got a new one to try at any range you like? Would you think that to be a good idea for someone who has little experience with guns? New buyers have lots of choices and often buy what they are pushed into by the salesperson. Revolver vs. Semi-Auto, big caliber vs 22 LR, the choices are infinite. This is not like buying a shirt. These are substantial investments with substantial consequences if you make the wrong decision. Sure, there are rentals but those selections are limited and restricted to that range for that hour. Rentals are not based upon - try it for a month nor are they free at $15/hour or more.

What if... manufactures supplied new guns to such an organization to test new gear in return for peer reviews?

What if... people donated guns they no longer use to promote the sport?

What if...you could save hundreds of dollars by sharing your new gun for one year with 12 other of your choice?

I am not suggesting that all What if.. situations are viable for sharing guns, but surely there are one or two that could be.


Background
This mission started when I ask the person who cuts my hair, this question: Do you bowl? You know at a bowling alley.
She said,

Yes, occasionally.

I then asked, Do you shoot? You know like guns at a range or bows and arrows?
She responded with much pause and hesitation, thinking what is this guy up to? Finally, she said,

never thought about it, why do you ask?

Never thought about it? Do you think that is a common answer? Ask that question and you will find that it is very common.
People may be polarized on the issue of gun ownership but must have no opinion other than opinions planted in their heads by the media.
These opinions are not in concrete. They are malleable with some personal positive experience.

Gun Ownership is Controversial - Gun Sharing Not So Much
When was the last time you invited someone who you thought was not a shooter to the range to try out one of your guns?
Asking someone if they shoot should be as inconsequential as asking someone if they bowl.

We typically advocate to like minded people not to those who have shown any distain or even those whom we think may have no strong opinions for or against our sport. Why is that? Is it because we are afraid of failure? Afraid of coming out of the closet so to speak? We all know the feeling of carrying a concealed weapon and why we like to carry it hidden. It is to avoid the stares. Granted, I do not want a bad guy to know I am armed but truthfully, I hide my gun from my own kids just to avoid trouble. We have a don't tell - don't ask policy in our respective homes. (Two girls in their 30's. I lost them to the LEFT sometime while in College)
We all worry that a good friend may ask us to not bring "that thing" into their home or carry it in our own car when picking up kids in car pools. These are real fears and fear can only be alleviated by knowledge and experience. Invite a non-shooter friend to the range today.

We all know about people who have made that leap from "Shooting?" to "I just bought my first gun." It just takes some external motivation.
Motivations based upon fear do work, but a more lasting motivation is to learn to love the sport of shooting.

Captain - We have a problem!
I suggest that our gun rights will remain under attack until such a time as when my hair stylist and others like her, respond with the same answer to both questions a like. "Yes I bowl occasionally, it is fun. Do you?"

A person who shoots and has a passion for the sport will not vote for a politician that wants to kill a sport you are familiar and have the desire to at least occasionally participate.
Gun rentals are a solution, but clearly not 100% effective as the stats show, shooting sports in general are in rapid decline for many reasons. All are simply related to the lack of votes and voices.

If it were not for those self-defense buyers, gun sales and ownership would be in an even faster decline.

Since 1990 hunting license sales are down 30%.
There are many ways to share:

• You get a demo gun from a manufacturer to test and review.
  You share your gun with a friend or family member.
  You become a member of a group that buys guns and then shares them on a rotational basis.
  You share a gun with a group and then rotates these guns on a periodic basis.

There are many emotional, legal and logistical issues that need to be discussed.
Who is most likely to want to share guns?
What are the benefits of sharing?

[dorminWS]

I guess you're making a colorable argument for sharing guns, but where I come from, it requires very close friendship or consanguinity as well as firm trust in the gun knowledge and judgment of the person with whom you share.

[ShotgunBlast]

Agreed. Outside a range setting there is too much risk for me to turn my guns into loaners.

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[OakRidgeStars]

I gotta agree with Dorm & SB, there's a big difference between sharing a bicycle and firearms. And for reasons that should be obvious to everyone.

[trailrunner]

Sounds like a solution in search of a problem. I could think of all sorts of logistical problems. Besides, don't most ranges rent guns anyway?

[Reverenddel]

"how do you feel about sharing vehicles?"
"how do you feel about sharing your wife/girlfriend/other?"

Same thing for me.

You can LOOK at it, but I'm hesitant about anyone USING it!

[Snakester]

Firearm ownership is kinda like owing a Ptibull....At just about any time and without any notice that Pitbull can bite someone. I do not own one , but if I did I know I would never lend it to anyone. Same goes with my firearms. We have quite a few people that come to our private range and some show up with their friends. Most of the time we see a lot of sharing or one person just wants to shoot a gun that is unusual or is interesting too them. It's fun to share at the range , but that is about as far as it goes.

[MarcSpaz]

I know, let let Iran borrow a few nukes so they can see if they like them of not. I'm sure Israel won't mind.

There is seriously no way in the world I would be on board with sharing weapons. The only way I would even come close to considering it is, the Russians/N. Koreans/name you enemy shows up state-side, my neighbors don't have guns and we are all working together to protect our families by locking down or street after forming a little neighborhood militia. And even then... Those weapons aren't leaving my sight and I'm going to be very selective over who gets what, if anything.

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[TrentM]

Thanks for the feedback. It was good of you to take time for a response.

[Ironbear]

I have lent firearms to close friends and instructors I know well. I would be disinclined to lend firearms, to people I didn't know and trust, unless I could directly supervise, e.g. let them try it out at the range.

[SHMIV]

I'm not particularly opposed to loaning guns out, but it depends on the person. Immediate family and close friends would pretty much be it.

I'd be more inclined to take folks out shooting to introduce them to it, as opposed to just handing them a gun to carry around and play with for a bit.

Having a "don't tell, don't ask" policy in your home, in regard to firearms, contributes to the problem. Most folks that do that seem to end up with anti-gun children, as far as I've observed. Folks that introduce their children to firearms at a young age seem to raise children that are pro-gun, and those children, when grown, tend to be capable of responsibly handling firearms.

It's my belief that the general practice of being secretive about owning and carrying firearms, on the whole, has contributed to the apparent apathy, or even downright hostility, from a large part of the public, when it comes to guns. So many people never think about guns until they watch the news, and hear about gang shootings, armed robberies, and the women that gets shot and killed by her drunken and abusive husband. They may have been surrounded by armed good guys all day long, but were unaware. So, it's easy to make them believe that only bad guys and nutcases have any interest in owning guns.

Guns are commonplace in many areas. They're just not obviously commonplace. That's the area on which to focus. The general public needs to see average individuals, doing average things, while armed, more regularly. That will bring it back to "normal " status.

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[AppleaDay]

WAY too much opportunity for things to go wrong. Remember the little kid who accidentally shot n' killed the instructor? It's lovely in theory to get new people interested in shooting by letting them try new guns but it would be like handing the keys to a Ferrari to a new driver and letting them go drive off on their own. Too many things are too likely to go seriously wrong.
I let a fellow shooter fire a few rounds from a handgun I had with me. He doubled, shot a hole through the roof. Never will I do that again.

Here's a better idea: how about starting a program where people can sign up to shoot WITH an experienced owner. You could list the guns and cross-reference with the owner, work out a time and date. That sounds a whole lot more palatable than handing a gun to an unknown person.

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[TrentM]

I very much like your idea to team up experienced with newbies.
Thanks

Here is a thought. Hundreds of thousands of people sell guns on GunBroker.com. The gun buyer one might sell to would, by legal definition, be of legal age, pass the background checks and sign all the forms presented by the FFL.

What is different? The FFL did not know that person or their experience, insist on providing training or even attempt to determine if that person were qualified to own a gun. The only gun training experience you need in VA occurs if you wish to get a CWC license or you are younger than 16? and want a hunting license.

I grant you that we (anyone who has sold a gun via GunBroker.com) have applied some permission for mental forgiveness when we "SELL" a gun to a complete stranger that we never even meet. That gun could be used in a felony, commit suicide or provide self-defense to some person and saves their life. We cannot predict the future.

But, that does not mean that Sharing would be irresponsible either. As a membership, the group could make the rules, run the same background checks, qualify other members and place restrictions if desired. My vision was to not have the government take on this responsibility but rather all members to oversee these rules just as a Range Master would have rules. (I know, it sounds like they might as well just buy a gun right? Yes, and No. I see many advantages to not buying a gun. Some are emotional, some social and some practical. Not everyone can afford a new or used gun. Few know what gun will suit them best when they have no knowledge of guns when they make their first purchase. Rental guns are limited in scope and time to really get used to having it around. There a huge social issues associated with "I bought a gun".

You do know that Shooting World in FA, no longer rents guns at their range as they had one renter commit suicide in their store. He may have been highly trained, a friend of the staff... who knows. Sh..t happens. There are articles on line where other Ranges have followed suit. It only takes one law suit to change you mind about renting guns. In our present day litigious world, no one is safe from the real threats, attorneys. We have a system that tends to protect the criminal more than the victim. Even hear the saying, "Double-Tap! or don't pull it at all"?

[MarcSpaz]

Here's the bottom line. You can sell all the guns you want. Once someone buys it, any results from using it are on them. If you buy my gun, same if you buy my car or anything else, its not my responsibility to make sure you can and do use it correctly. But, if I own a gun and let you barrow it and you kill someone, now I am in legal trouble. Same with you barrowing my car. You get drunck and hit someone and run, they come find me for answers. If you buy my car, get drunk and kill someone, its not my issue, legally. You buy my gun and kill someone, its not my issue, legally.

When I was growing up, I figured out two rules. 1.) never let someone barrow something unless I want to give it to them, because I'll likely never see it again. 2.) never share your wife, car or weapons with anyone, because I'm not raising someelse else's kid, walking to work or going to jail cuz my buddy is a bumbass.

Sorry... Just the way it is.

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