St. Louis residents not waiting for cops

[Swampman]

Gun sales are up across St. Louis since the shooting of Michael Brown and subsequent nights of violence.

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2014/08/12/ ... ross-area/

Can't blame them one bit.

[wittmeba]

It would be nice to read a follow-up story indicating crime down as a result of more guns. And share it with Bloomberg.

[mamabearCali]

Can't blame them. I have reevaluated my future purchase plans with this and other things in mind. Right now I can happily buy in a convenient manner. I hope it remains so.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[MarcSpaz]

I would not discourage anyone from buying a weapon to defend themselves, but I see a problem in situations like this.

IMHO...

1.) After the fact is too late. The folks are buying because something happened in their neighborhood. Don't wait until its too late. Everyone should get something now, before things go wrong.

2.) I would love to see some kind of PSA from the industry advising people who have no formal training to get some, and those who have some training should continue to practice.

Again, everyone should defend themselves, but a whole bunch of new, inexperienced owners running around isn't great for them. They need to know how to defend themselves. You can't just say "I'm going to use Tae Kwon Do for hand-to-hand defense", and then just assume you are going to defend yourself like a 4th degree black-belt after NEVER taking a class; I don't care how good you look in the gee.

[mamabearCali]

Fortunately firearms are easier to master than martial arts training. However getting good info and experience is always better than not.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Snakester]

Can you blame them ? The way I see it , It's every man for themselves . By the time the cops show up I would have already bagged my limit !

[scott9050]

Looks like the 'victim' in this was wanted for robbing a store:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/15/fe ... y-suspect/
Michael Brown was 6'4" 292 pounds.

[Reverenddel]

Makes me rethink my position on body armor, and civilian usage.

Until this? I had never even contemplated it. With all this crazy actions, staying "inside"may not be enough.

[mamabearCali]

And there goes the other shoe. Not a bright and upcoming college kid. Rather a man brutal enough to knock a store clerk around and rob a convenience store.

It is Trayvon Martin part 2.

Does not excuse the LEO or the PD's actions during the riots.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[MarcSpaz]

And there goes the other shoe. Not a bright and upcoming college kid. Rather a man brutal enough to knock a store clerk around and rob a convenience store.

It is Trayvon Martin part 2.

My thoughts exactly!

Does not excuse the LEO or the PD's actions during the riots.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

Well, with everything I learned today, I would have to disagree with you here on the part of the original LEO who did the shooting.

The guy was being arrested for petty larceny and felony assault (assault during the commissioning of a crime). While being arrested he committed Aggravated Felony Assault on a Police Officer.

There is federal law as well as many cases of common law supporting the "Fleeing Felon Rule", which permits the use of force, including deadly force, against an individual who is even "suspected" of a felony and is in clear flight.

I can say that if everything the police Chief released is true, the LEO acted within the law. Morally, is it right? I don't know, because I wasn't there. However, if I have to choose to take the word of the kid who committed the robbery with Mike Brown, or the police officer, I'm going to side with the LEO rather than a thug on the street; in this case anyway.

Now, the rest of the poor behavior from the local PD... that still needs to be addressed.

My problem with the way things are going now... though its peaceful, that doesn't mean they should be lawless. Since when is it okay for a bunch of people to ride down the road on the outside of a vehicle? And since when is blocking traffic and public intoxication okay? Maybe I'm missing something.

[Swampman]

Since when is it okay for a bunch of people to ride down the road on the outside of a vehicle?

Dude, did you not see that they're black? First thing happens if the cops tell them to quit it, the riot escalates, and they start screaming brutality, civil rights, etc. This is a no-win for the cops.

Best thing to do is ignore them, pack up, go home, and hope they fall off the car and take themselves out of the gene pool. One less on the government dole.

Can you tell I'm not very sympathetic?

[MarcSpaz]

That is awesome! I can't stop laughing. What makes it even more funny is your right.

[mamabearCali]

You misunderstand. I take no position on whether the LEO was right or wrong on the original shooting. I have no idea if he was justified, but it is looking more and more plausible.

Where I take serious issue is with LEO's pointing rifles at protestors, arresting journalists, gassing journalists (accidental or not) and generally escalating things.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[MarcSpaz]

You misunderstand. I take no position on whether the LEO was right or wrong on the original shooting. I have no idea if he was justified, but it is looking more and more plausible.

Where I take serious issue is with LEO's pointing rifles at protestors, arresting journalists, gassing journalists (accidental or not) and generally escalating things.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

Absolutely. Fully agree there. That is 100% unacceptable.

[dorminWS]

Well, the subsequent release of the C-store tapes establishes that the dead guy was a bad dude doing bad stuff and the "eye-witnesses were his accomplices in the crime(s). BUT, in my book, since the police have admitted the officer didn't KNOW that when he stopped them for "walking down the middle of the road blocking traffic", the cop still had no business shooting the dude as he was running away (if that's what happened). "Demonstrators" (looters) were out of control, but looks to me a lot like the cops were out of control, too.

[mamabearCali]

We the guy had just committed felony assault in an officer as well.

Also there is a witness that days that the 300 lb youth taunted then bum rushed the officer. Now generally if say no way that too crazy. But this guy was nuts enough to jump into a police car and go for a cops gun.....that is pretty nuts.


The police were over the line several times. I am reserving judgement on whether the initial shoot was justified.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Swampman]

You misunderstand. I take no position on whether the LEO was right or wrong on the original shooting. I have no idea if he was justified, but it is looking more and more plausible.

Where I take serious issue is with LEO's pointing rifles at protestors, arresting journalists, gassing journalists (accidental or not) and generally escalating things.

MBC, I don't misunderstand and did not intend any criticism. I agree with your points, including that the cops have contributed to the escalation of this situation. Saw a report this morning that the store that Brown robbed has been looted and destroyed by the same blacks who are screaming for justice. When asked if they were going to do anything about the constant stream of black thugs going in and out of the store, the cops said no. Too busy riding around shooting teargas at the rioters I guess.

IMO, let the azzhats riot in the street. Let them tear down street signs, etc. The cops have this mentality that a small group of them can stop a much larger group of hooligans from doing what they want. They can, but only if they are willing to use deadly force, which they almost never do. In the absence of deadly force, they should refrain from engagement and protect property. Take lots of pictures and video so they can identify the bad apples in what would have otherwise been a generally peaceful protest, and arrest them later.

The cops are in an unenviable position made worse by their actions. The curfew was stupid. They dared the morons to step over the line. They did, so now what? That old saying, "Don't argue with a moron, lest you be mistaken for one" comes to mind.

Cops in this country seem to be making a bed they don't want to lay in. Used to be few and far between, the number of bad cop stories we'd hear. Maybe it always was like this but we see more of it now because of the internet and smartphones, I don't know. The appearance is that cops are overstepping the boundaries of actual law enforcement more and more. I hope I am wrong.

[whipple]

The curfew was stupid. They dared the morons to step over the line. They did, so now what? That old saying, "Don't argue with a moron, lest you be mistaken for one" comes to mind.

I couldn't agree more. That's the problem dealing with people who have no respect for the law for what ever misguided reason.

If you want to stop a riot, stop a riot. Don't half ass it. I tire of hearing that these "peaceful protesters" were treated badly.

I want to know what justification any person has to repeatedly rob the same store and then burn it as a response to someone they didn't know being shot by a police officer for still to be determined reasons!?!? And... after the fact the same store that said kid stole from, and the only eye witness to the shooting is his accomplice? Any bad things that happen to those folks who have responded in such a fashion are well earned. I feel bad for the journalists and any innocents caught up in this, but something tells me nobody was pointing guns at them in an effort to get them to stick around.

There are a lot of assumptions being made by a lot of people, and as time goes on this is simply going to get worse regardless of the outcome of the investigation. If it was a bad cop, well... he needs to pay dearly, but if it was a righteous shoot, you can guess the rest.

Did the police respond poorly? Yes, but anyone can armchair QB. Facts are ugly things and criminals are causing trouble that we expect our police to handle. Yet they fail, and don't get it right every time when dealing with people who just don't care. If anyone here really knew me, that statement really sounds odd coming outta my keyboard. I am not the biggest fan of law enforcement for my own reasons, but I do know I don't want to walk a foot in their shoes, let alone a mile.

If the police did wrong in this, hold them 100% accountable, as they are supposed to set the example. But stop dicking around with the blatant lawbreakers and set an example there also.

Well, now that I've got that off my chest, anyone wanna grab a beer?

[mamabearCali]

Sounds good. I could use a Pepsi....I am not yet permitted beer for another few months.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[whipple]

No beer? Just Pepsi?

Oh my. I'm certain that sort of predicament wouldn't make me happy. First, I like beer, alot... but pepsi? nah. I'm a coke guy.