Army giving 13,000 MRAPs to local police?

[dorminWS]

HMMM..... "They weigh about 20-tons and get five miles per gallon. "

Why wouldn't they haul them out to the dry desert and mothball them? Why give them to local police to burn up a gallon of gas for every 5 miles travelled in a vehicle THAT DOES NOT BELONG IN A CIVILIAN SETTING? By the way, 20 toms on two axles, or even on three axles, is illegal and would almost certainly do significant damage to roads, bridges and other infrastructure. This is lunacy - - - unless the goal is to establish a police state; in which case it may not be lunacy but it is still horribly wasteful.

How the hell can ANYBODY respect or trust a government that does such things?

http://fox2now.com/2014/02/27/police-ma ... agon-cuts/

[SHMIV]

The illegal weight doesn't concern me as much as the idea of police forces having such things.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[mamabearCali]

Both concern me. Our soldiers were dying for lack of these monsters a few years ago now we are giving them to Civilian police units! Unless we really think Russia will invade these things need to be moth balled and set aside.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Kreutz]

Ideally the first aging bridge crossed with one of the behemoths on it will collapse and drown everyone inside.

[WRW]

For reference, that's around the weight of a fire apparatus. There may be some small bridges not rated for that load, but they are not on well traveled routes.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[dorminWS]

Still more than the law allows us mere taxpayers. And there's a valid emergency/public safety reason to have a fire truck on the road. Not so these MRAPS.

[WRW]

Still more than the law allows us mere taxpayers. And there's a valid emergency/public safety reason to have a fire truck on the road. Not so these MRAPS.

True, I just didn't want Kreutz to get his hopes up too high. My sentiments on this...better to sell the damned things for scrap and salvage.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[ShotgunBlast]

How else do you expect them to get around Posse Comitatus?

[RWBlue01]

It appears that everyone on this forum has group think...

So I will be different.
First, I don't think anyone is going to be using this vehicle as a daily driver or to patrol the interstate and hand out speeding tickets.

BUT, it could be a good vehicle for certain tasks.
1. Nut case takes building, you have to clear the distance and he has shot at people before. Do you want to drive up to the building in a regular police car?

2. We get a 12+ inch snow storm. People need to get around. Think Ambulance, but without all the medical equipment. OR Think domestic violence in the middle of the snow storm. Just get to the people and get them out.

3. They spot a pot farm in the middle of a state forest. You can drop people by helo or drive the logging roads in. Heck the same would be true if we had the right forest fires.

4. Patrolling the southern boarder. Not all the illegals that come across are nice people.

5. What good is it to moth ball them? I hope we don't need them for a very long time. If you just let a car sit, it will not run in 1 year. If you run a take of fuel through them every year, they will run for 50 years.

6. I would love to recoup the money out of them by selling them to you or me, but I am guessing that wouldn't work as they are not street legal. We could sell them to an alli, but I am not sure who to call an alli at this point. Anyone who really needs them, I wouldn't want to sell them to.

[dorminWS]

It appears that everyone on this forum has group think...

So I will be different.
First, I don't think anyone is going to be using this vehicle as a daily driver or to patrol the interstate and hand out speeding tickets.

BUT, it could be a good vehicle for certain tasks.
1. Nut case takes building, you have to clear the distance and he has shot at people before. Do you want to drive up to the building in a regular police car?

2. We get a 12+ inch snow storm. People need to get around. Think Ambulance, but without all the medical equipment. OR Think domestic violence in the middle of the snow storm. Just get to the people and get them out.

3. They spot a pot farm in the middle of a state forest. You can drop people by helo or drive the logging roads in. Heck the same would be true if we had the right forest fires.

4. Patrolling the southern boarder. Not all the illegals that come across are nice people.

5. What good is it to moth ball them? I hope we don't need them for a very long time. If you just let a car sit, it will not run in 1 year. If you run a take of fuel through them every year, they will run for 50 years.

6. I would love to recoup the money out of them by selling them to you or me, but I am guessing that wouldn't work as they are not street legal. We could sell them to an alli, but I am not sure who to call an alli at this point. Anyone who really needs them, I wouldn't want to sell them to.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I think the concern is that some of them might be misused/overused as was the case with Mr. Geer in Fairfax, VA. I know that I have been concerned since Waco and Ruby Ridge about excessive use of force and the appearance that state and local police are adopting the same tactics as the continue to be militarized. This, as I see it, is not necessary and not desirable.

http://www.policestateusa.com/2013/john ... by-police/

[WRW]

As well, most, if not all, scenarios have already been prepared for.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[WRW]

If government were a person, it would be diagnosed as paranoid delusional (among other things) and not allowed access to weapons.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[ShotgunBlast]

It appears that everyone on this forum has group think...

So I will be different.
First, I don't think anyone is going to be using this vehicle as a daily driver or to patrol the interstate and hand out speeding tickets.

BUT, it could be a good vehicle for certain tasks.
1. Nut case takes building, you have to clear the distance and he has shot at people before. Do you want to drive up to the building in a regular police car?

2. We get a 12+ inch snow storm. People need to get around. Think Ambulance, but without all the medical equipment. OR Think domestic violence in the middle of the snow storm. Just get to the people and get them out.

3. They spot a pot farm in the middle of a state forest. You can drop people by helo or drive the logging roads in. Heck the same would be true if we had the right forest fires.

4. Patrolling the southern boarder. Not all the illegals that come across are nice people.

5. What good is it to moth ball them? I hope we don't need them for a very long time. If you just let a car sit, it will not run in 1 year. If you run a take of fuel through them every year, they will run for 50 years.

6. I would love to recoup the money out of them by selling them to you or me, but I am guessing that wouldn't work as they are not street legal. We could sell them to an alli, but I am not sure who to call an alli at this point. Anyone who really needs them, I wouldn't want to sell them to.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I think the concern is that some of them might be misused/overused as was the case with Mr. Geer in Fairfax, VA. I know that I have been concerned since Waco and Ruby Ridge about excessive use of force and the appearance that state and local police are adopting the same tactics as the continue to be militarized. This, as I see it, is not necessary and not desirable.

http://www.policestateusa.com/2013/john ... by-police/

Exactly. You're not going to spend money to train people on how to use and maintain the equipment and then not use the equipment. You have to use the equipment to justify having it or risk losing it. I'd love to only see this equipment used only in those scenarios mentioned above, but if the increase in SWAT raids over the decades is any indicator, these things are going to get some serious miles on them going forward.

They count about 3,000 SWAT-style raids nationwide in 1980. By 2006, the number reached 50,000, and extrapolates to 70,000, possibly 80,000, by 2011.

http://www.standard.net/stories/2013/03 ... ized-world

Wow, up to 80,000 SWAT raids nationwide in one year. That's gotta be a lot of armed robberies, hostage scenarios, and other serious events you'd expect SWAT to take care of. Nope, most of it now is petty drug raids and serving warrants. Once again, you have to justify keeping the tools you have spent money to get or risk losing them.

[dorminWS]

[quote="ShotgunBlast
They count about 3,000 SWAT-style raids nationwide in 1980. By 2006, the number reached 50,000, and extrapolates to 70,000, possibly 80,000, by 2011.

http://www.standard.net/stories/2013/03 ... ized-world

Wow, up to 80,000 SWAT raids nationwide in one year. That's gotta be a lot of armed robberies, hostage scenarios, and other serious events you'd expect SWAT to take care of. Nope, most of it now is petty drug raids and serving warrants. Once again, you have to justify keeping the tools you have spent money to get or risk losing them.[/quote]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Wow! From 3,000 to 80,000 is a 2,667% increase. That's a compound rate of growth between 1980 and 2011 of about 11.25% per year. If that doesn't maker the case that SWAT raids are growing at an unjustifiable rate, there ain't no tea in China.

[Reverenddel]

The problem is the MRAP is great if your adversary is held up in a fixed location...

What about guerrilla warfare? In, and out of shadows, blending in with the public....

They were great in the sandbox, but they were still disabled with the proper IED's.

Never trust your equipment, only your training. Because "Murphy" is always riding along!

[Kreutz]

Still more than the law allows us mere taxpayers. And there's a valid emergency/public safety reason to have a fire truck on the road. Not so these MRAPS.

True, I just didn't want Kreutz to get his hopes up too high. My sentiments on this...better to sell the damned things for scrap and salvage.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

Well, thanks for the truth anyway. I just couldn't think of a better symbol for mismatched priorities than an old bridge collapsing under the weight of an MRAP driven by the Possum Hollar (pop. 300) PD plunging into a river.

[WRW]

More likely, in a town that size, it would be the main attraction at the local mud bog till the batteries need replacement for that 24 volt system.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[BertMacklin]

The problem is the MRAP is great if your adversary is held up in a fixed location...

What about guerrilla warfare? In, and out of shadows, blending in with the public....

They were great in the sandbox, but they were still disabled with the proper IED's.

Never trust your equipment, only your training. Because "Murphy" is always riding along!

Earlier generations also had flipping issues due to a high center of gravity. Imagine what earthworks in a rural area could do...

[MarcSpaz]

They don't refer to earthworks as tank traps for nothing.

[Reverenddel]

AMEN! All these Progressive/Commies think it all about the gear! Just get some stupid 19 year old "robot" to do their commands with high tech gear!

Yeah! Till i dig out the street, drop your MRAP face first about 4 feet down, and then put "luv" all over it.

I swear the Progressive/Commies have never read a history book in their life.