Cast bullets and leading questions...

[Palladin]

Is there an acceptable amount of leading to you folks? Some leading after 50rds, 100rds?
Working with my XD45 5" Tac.
Any way to judge hardness w/out a tester?

[zephyp]

IMO any visible leading after cleaning is unacceptable and if it takes longer than a few minutes to clean the barrel then that is also unacceptable... If you're seeing lead deposits after 50 rounds and you're doing you're own reloading may want to try harder bullets or cast your own. You can easily find materials (lead, tin, and antimony) to mix pretty much whatever hardness you want. You can also try different lubes, gas checks and quenching if you cast your own. Not sure how to accurately test hardness without a tester but I think they are relatively cheap.

[Palladin]

IMO any visible leading after cleaning is unacceptable and if it takes longer than a few minutes to clean the barrel then that is also unacceptable... If you're seeing lead deposits after 50 rounds and you're doing you're own reloading may want to try harder bullets or cast your own. You can easily find materials (lead, tin, and antimony) to mix pretty much whatever hardness you want. You can also try different lubes, gas checks and quenching if you cast your own. Not sure how to accurately test hardness without a tester but I think they are relatively cheap.

Currently don't have a tester. (Hint hint, Santa) Do have a brand new Beta Chrony.
Don't understand how a .45 bullet that is noticeably harder than a 22lr can lead the barrel when it's going 3-400fps slower than the 22. I'm working slowly in lots of 10, with 1 powder right now, titegroup, with clays, bullseye, unique and red dot on the shelf. Don't want the added expense of gas checks, and my molds aren't gas check molds. Not looking for high velocity, just high volume for practice. I just got a bottle of rooster jacket from Midway last week, had been using Lee Liquid snot prior to that.

Also, can one possibly cast too hard? I'm starting with monotype scrap (harder than linotype) and cutting it with soft lead scrap. Hmmm... lots of casting questions too!

[Vahunter]

I don't see any signs of leading in my XD using 4.5 grains of titegroup and a 230 lead ball bullet. But i also clean mine after every shooting session.

[zephyp]

IMO any visible leading after cleaning is unacceptable and if it takes longer than a few minutes to clean the barrel then that is also unacceptable... If you're seeing lead deposits after 50 rounds and you're doing you're own reloading may want to try harder bullets or cast your own. You can easily find materials (lead, tin, and antimony) to mix pretty much whatever hardness you want. You can also try different lubes, gas checks and quenching if you cast your own. Not sure how to accurately test hardness without a tester but I think they are relatively cheap.

Currently don't have a tester. (Hint hint, Santa) Do have a brand new Beta Chrony.
Don't understand how a .45 bullet that is noticeably harder than a 22lr can lead the barrel when it's going 3-400fps slower than the 22. I'm working slowly in lots of 10, with 1 powder right now, titegroup, with clays, bullseye, unique and red dot on the shelf. Don't want the added expense of gas checks, and my molds aren't gas check molds. Not looking for high velocity, just high volume for practice. I just got a bottle of rooster jacket from Midway last week, had been using Lee Liquid snot prior to that.

Also, can one possibly cast too hard? I'm starting with monotype scrap (harder than linotype) and cutting it with soft lead scrap. Hmmm... lots of casting questions too!

You definitely want to cut the monotype esp if its harder than linotype. I used to use linotype mixed with lead to cast hard bullets. A good lube and you greatly reduce the lead fouling problem. I would google up a formula for monotype and lead. I dont think you can cast them too hard other than wasting your metal. Lead is relatively easy to find - not linotype. You can order that from some places like Cabelas I think. I used to also hit up the local gas stations for lead wheel weights. A little flux in the pot and you got yourself cheap lead to mix up an alloy.

[Palladin]

I don't see any signs of leading in my XD using 4.5 grains of titegroup and a 230 lead ball bullet. But i also clean mine after every shooting session.

Started with a Lee TL230-2R, and then purchased a Lee 230-1R.
The TL -2R was definitely causing nosedive FTFs in the magazine, and it's a very fine line between getting the shoulder out far enough to avoid that and too much overall length. Now I have a whole new set of problems with the new mold, and I'm kinda scratching my head.
Do you size for your XD?... .451 or .452?
Oh, and does the apprehension ever go away when you go out and test a new load?!

Thanks!

[SgtBill]

Diffrent powders will give a diffrent burn rate ,you will in fact get a hotter flame front and therfore you may or may not get leading depending on the hardness of the lead mixture.

For myself I like the little bit oversize of .452 for a tighter bore fit and more consumption of all the powder in the charge instead of blowing unburnt powder out the bore.

For a powder I use Winchester 231 for none Magnum loads and Winchester 296 for Magnum loads. They are both much cleaner then H-110 or Unique
Bill

[Palladin]

The Lee 1R is throwing all six at .454, and I'm sizing to .452.
I didn't want to get another sizing die, my budget is minimal right now. I have captured multiple factory hardballs in water (WWB, PMC, AE, and Blazer Br), and they all mike the same, so I'm pretty sure I'm on the right track with the .452.
I shall keep tinkering in the meantime...

[Vahunter]

They are both much cleaner then H-110 or Unique
Bill

Titegroup is almost as dirty as Unique.

[arkypete]

I've been distracted by shooting AR10s, but will get back to handguns this spring..
I've not had any leading with my cast bullets for the past 15 - 20 years in any of my handguns. Most of my handgun shooting is with 357 mag, down loaded, 45 acp, Bullseye loads, 45 Colt, some were around 1,000 fps.
I use air cooled Wheel weights with a bit of tin, lubed with LBT Blue.
The 357 bullets are sized .359, the 45 acp in the 1911 are sized .452, the 45 acp in revolvers is sized .454, 45 Colt are sized .454.
I wipe the hand gun down with a rag after shooting, no bore or cyclinder brush, and put them away until the next time. I'll clean them every 500 to 1.000 rounds.
I'd bet your leading in the result of to small diameter bullet rather then to hard or to soft lead.

Jim

[jdonovan]

Titegroup is almost as dirty as Unique.

I saw the OP mentioned titegroup, and I've been using it for a while, so I've got some things to add about it.

Nearly everyone I know complains about the smoke level when shooting non-jacketed lead with TG. Some think its temp of the burn, and there are other theories too... all I know is it smokes more than I like. I've picked up some clays to try out as a replacement.

Secondly titegroup seems to be MUCH less dirty as you get near max loads. I ran some simulations in quickload and saw why.... when loaded to light/mid loads only about 70-80% of the powder is burned before the bullet exits the muzzle. When I got up near max, then I got 90%+ burn inside the barrel.

Clays on the other hand is predicted to give 95% burn in the first 1.5" of barrel, so I'm hoping that at light loads clays will be even cleaner than TG at full power.

[Palladin]

Thanks for the input guys - I'm still tweaking loads, and having fun while doing it. Jury is expected back in midsummer '10!

[Palladin]

... I'm getting there - burned through 60 rds this evening, flawless function and clean as a whistle!

[zephyp]

... I'm getting there - burned through 60 rds this evening, flawless function and clean as a whistle!

Way to go...when you perfect it you'll have to give us your recipe...

[smc331]

Save some for me, brudder! I'm on my way!

[Palladin]

Save some for me, brudder! I'm on my way!

Hey, , do you REALLY want to drop the hammer on loads I haven't thoroughly wrung out yet??!!

[herohog]

I found it funny that pushing lead too SLOW is as bed as pushing it too fast! I would have never figured that one! Apparently, at the proper speed, the friction generates just the right heat to make the lead act as a lubricant. Too slow and it simply scrubs off, too fast and it is stripped off by the rifling!

[smc331]

Save some for me, brudder! I'm on my way!

Hey, , do you REALLY want to drop the hammer on loads I haven't thoroughly wrung out yet??!!

I trust me wittle brudder - LOL...

[Palladin]

200 rds - no leading, normal soot and sticky gunk for lubed lead loads!

Think I'm getting there...

[joesig]

When shooting cast bullets, it's important to have the slug properly fit the throat and have the alloy hard enough to withstand the pressure but not too hard. A hard, undersized slug will lead just as much if not more than a soft slug in front of too much pressure. Velocity, at least at pistol velocities, is immaterial.

Where the leading takes place is an indication of what is wrong. Toward the muzzle is a lack of lube. Toward the chamber is poor fit/hardness/pressure.

Using mono or lino is a waste of good alloy in a 45. You'd be better served just adding a small percentage of your alloy to wheelweights to make them fill out better. If you need them harder, which you shouldn't in a 45, you can drop them right from the mold into a bucket of cold water, size within a few hours and let them age a couple of days. They will be quite a bit harder. DON'T get water in your pot!

Please see http://www.corbins.com/lead.htm#hard for an easy and cheap way to check hardness if you have a sample of known hardness. Pure Lead should be easiest to find.

See Lee's Second reloading manual for tons of info. You can also try http://castboolits.gunloads.com/