Private sale background check - an app for that?

[Mindflayer]

I know there would be some privacy and security concerns, but here's my thought. Why can't citizens access NICS, or some subset thereof, to determine if the person to whom they want to sell a firearm is eligible? It could be a simple smartphone app - you type in the name and some other qualifier (address? SSN?) and it comes back telling you if the guy would be denied or not. No registration of firearm serial number, no database.

Yes, I realize there's a risk that device ID or IMEI could be used to track the transaction. There are some privacy issues, too, especially if you use SSN. (I always ask to see ID so I see the address if I hypothetically ever sold a firearm in a private sale.) However, it seems to me that it's a PROactive way to protect our right to private transaction and also safeguard the public to a degree.

[ShotgunBlast]

At least with a FFL you know there is a framework in place to deal with the paperwork that has your information on it so that it's not just left out in the open. Giving Joe Blow my SSN and other critical information is not going to happen.

[totes6]

At least with a FFL you know there is a framework in place to deal with the paperwork that has your information on it so that it's not just left out in the open. Giving Joe Blow my SSN and other critical information is not going to happen.

+1

There is another big reason I want to keep private sells private. Anytime the Government gets involved, they screw things up. Case in point, I get delayed every single time I go through an FFL. This means I am not willing to drive down to Richmond to Bass Pro or Greentop to purchase firearms even if they have them in stock. I would have to drive down the 2 hours and drive back without the gun. And make the same trip 3+ days later. Yes my last background check took over 3 days and that was over a year ago and in the middle of the week, not on a gun show weekend. Please explain why I would want to introduce that same latency to any private deal I perform?

[FiremanBob]

For the federal .gov to restrict lawful commerce between citizens of the same state is unconstitutional. (IANAL, but I'll fight like Sam Whittemore for our rights.) I don't like the idea of discussing the practicalities of executing an unconstitutional regulation, so this thread bothers me. Of course, I support your First Amendment right to discuss it.

[Mindflayer]

Where did I say this would be regulated? There's no regulation. It's just a check to determine if the person buying is legit or not. In the end, it would be up to the seller - JUST LIKE IT IS NOW - to make the sale or not. I suspect many law abiding folks would use it just to be sure the guy they're selling the gun to is not a loon.

Another method is to take a photo of the DL and then have it come back with an answer. (If you are selling guns without checking some form of ID, frankly, you're an idiot.) Keep in mind the system in place now was built with technology from a millennia ago in terms of technology. I know it's possible today.

Again, the system today was built way too long ago. Give me the contract, and I'll build the team and the system to handle the load. It's what I do for a living for some of the largest, highest traffic transactional stuff already.

[WRW]

Ask for references if it is a concern.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Reverenddel]

And blood/stool samples.

I try to never sell privately unless I know the person, or they have a valid CHP. It's my own personal choice. Not prejudice, but at least I know they're like minded.

[OakRidgeStars]

And blood/stool samples.

Two words: Pee test

[kelu]

And blood/stool samples.

Don't laugh. To get license to buy a Gamo AIR RIFLE I had to do:
- x-rays
- blood tests
- eye exam
- general health exam
- get proof from regional mental hospital that I am not registered with them
- take a 2 hour psychological test - same like for enrolling in police

If I was the lawmaker, actually I would deny anybody who passes all these; it proves that the person that does all these for an air rifle is not sane

[kelu]

I forgot:
- a tax paid to the tax office, which also checks if you have other debts for taxes or fines; if yes, no receipt until paid in full for everything...

[Mindflayer]

I thought you were from Romania, kelu. My bad, I didn't know you were from New York.

[FiremanBob]

Forcing private transactions into a federal background-check system is a regulation. Regardless of how you feel about background checks, it is an intrusion on intrastate commerce involving legal products that should not be allowed.

If the state of Virginia were to enact a law requiring background checks to be run through the NICS system for non-FFL, private transactions, I would not have this specific objection. Of course, I would have many others and would work hard to ensure that such a bill would not pass.

Yes, I am aware that my position would invalidate much of the EPA, Dept. of Education, Dept. of HHS, and other laws and regulations, and would require overturning the ridiculous Wickard v. Filburn decision (which created the excuse for vast federal overreach once FDR had sufficiently packed the SCOTUS with "Progressives"), unless the state were to pass protective legislation under the Tenth Amendment. And yes, I am certain that my position is the correct one, both constitutionally and for the benefit of our society.

All of our major national firearms laws, the NFA of 1934, the Gun Control act of 1968, the AWB and the Gun-Free Schools Act, were passed in hysterical reaction to rare but spectacular events, and as usual with such legislation in such circumstances, are very poorly thought-out and counterproductive.

[DaRoller]

I thought you were from Romania, kelu. My bad, I didn't know you were from New York.

Wait until you hear what he had to go through to get the projectiles to actually *use* it!

All of our major national firearms laws, the NFA of 1934, the Gun Control act of 1968, the AWB and the Gun-Free Schools Act, were passed in hysterical reaction to rare but spectacular events, and as usual with such legislation in such circumstances, are very poorly thought-out and counterproductive.

This is very, very true. Unfortunately, when we give them lots of time to think through the legislation, it tends to be just as counterproductive and poorly thought out.

[ShotgunBlast]

Another method is to take a photo of the DL and then have it come back with an answer. (If you are selling guns without checking some form of ID, frankly, you're an idiot.) Keep in mind the system in place now was built with technology from a millennia ago in terms of technology. I know it's possible today.

Now this is an interesting idea. It gets vital information into the system without giving out your SSN so that's good for both the buyer and the seller. Some banks will now deposit checks into your account by taking a picture of it and uploading it to them. No reason why this couldn't idea couldn't work.

[Mindflayer]

Forcing private transactions into a federal background-check system is a regulation. Regardless of how you feel about background checks, it is an intrusion on intrastate commerce involving legal products that should not be allowed.

You're totally missing my point. I have said twice now that the person selling is using it for their own peace of mind. Right now, I can choose to sell a gun to someone without checking ID, not caring if they have an ankle bracelet on, and so on - and that won't change even if they change the law. People that want to sell to less than reputable people will do so.

On the other hand, if I want to sell a gun to someone, and there was an app for me to do a quick check to see if they are ok or not, why not? AGAIN, no registration. No "governmental interference". Take off the tin foil hat for a moment and please read what I am saying, and not what you think I am saying....

[GeneFrenkle]

What problem is trying to be solved and how do we know it's a problem?

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[totes6]

Forcing private transactions into a federal background-check system is a regulation. Regardless of how you feel about background checks, it is an intrusion on intrastate commerce involving legal products that should not be allowed.

You're totally missing my point. I have said twice now that the person selling is using it for their own peace of mind. Right now, I can choose to sell a gun to someone without checking ID, not caring if they have an ankle bracelet on, and so on - and that won't change even if they change the law. People that want to sell to less than reputable people will do so.

On the other hand, if I want to sell a gun to someone, and there was an app for me to do a quick check to see if they are ok or not, why not? AGAIN, no registration. No "governmental interference". Take off the tin foil hat for a moment and please read what I am saying, and not what you think I am saying....

Please explain how you would get around my 3+ day wait when we are not in the middle of this purchasing madness? I don't even want to try to purchase from an FFL right now with the record number of background checks going on, I doubt they would get around to me for weeks. I know you claim you can build the best system out there with current technology. But I am still not convinced that it would be any faster. I have a very common name, (unfortunately had 3 other students in my kindergarten class of around 25 kids with the exact same name, figure that one out somehow) and I know of no system that would get me an instant background check. I am not the only one, just recently there was another member on the board that is currently in delayed/research ville with the State Police for his background check that has at last check taken over 2 weeks. And there are others.

In regards to your comment:

not caring if they have an ankle bracelet on, and so on

is FALSE. The way the law is written, if you have any suspicion that the individual that is looking to purchase your firearm may be someone who is not allowed to posses the firearm, from something they said, did or their appearance (i.e. they had an ankle monitor on in plain view), then you can be held liable for selling them that weapon.

[VBshooter]

Private MEANS private,,, No interference,,BS papers ,Nobodies damn busienss what you do wether buying or selling.

[FiremanBob]

Sorry if I missed your point, mindflayer. So I understand what you are asking is what if you wanted to use NICS voluntarily? Is there any reason you couldn't run the sale through your favorite FFL who will do that for you? I think the privacy objection still applies for the prospective subject of the NICS search. FFLs are required to maintain confidentiality, whereas JQ Public could run a NICS on anyone and publicize or otherwise misuse the data.

If I misunderstood you, it's because several Left-wing extremist politicians are calling for mandatory NICS checks on all FTF, private deals in addition to FFL sales. And against that proposal, I hope you would share my concerns.

[gunderwood]

Private MEANS private,,, No interference,,BS papers ,Nobodies damn busienss what you do wether buying or selling.

+1