Just wanted to see if anyone in here has any idea why my 1.5 year old DDM4V3 has FTE issues. It doesn't do it all the time but it does it enough for me not to fully be comfortable with it if/when I may need to go to it for something besides putting holes in paper. Here's the story.
First off let me state that I take very good care of my guns. I clean them and keep them lubed probably more than what is necessary. This rifle has around 2K rounds through it so its been broken in. The issue is that I'll have stove pipes and FTE's almost everytime I shoot this thing. I would say its probably 1 out of 50 rounds is the average FTE. I will say that sometimes it doesn't do it at all. When I was at the range lastnight, I bought a few boxes of PMC bronze 55gr to shoot a game of horse with a couple of buddies from work. Well, I had probably 3 FTE's and needless to say, I'm getting sick and tired of it! I've talked to gunsmiths and tons of gunowners and they've never had any suggestions that I feel are viable solutions to my problem.
So I finally call DD and talked to a guy named Chris. I told him my story and told him what grain bullet I'm shooting. He asked what the twist rate of the barrel was and I told him 1:7. He then proceeded to tell me that with that twist rate that I needed to shoot at a bare minimum a 62 gr bullet and that should take care of the problem. Does anyone think he's right about this? If so, can anyone explain why a 62gr wouldn't FTE and a 55gr would? Pre-thank you to everyone that helps me out with this issue.
Daniel Defense DDM4V3 FTE
Re: Daniel Defense DDM4V3 FTE
For starters, when you try to complain about a problem, spell it out completely. FTE could mean failure to extract or failure to eject. Since you are saying FTE and stovepipes, I am guessing you are talking about failures to extract. a stovepipe would be a form of failure to eject. There are two common possibilities with your rifle. it is not cycling far enough back to give it time to eject (short stroking) or your extractor or spring is damaged or weakened.
To identify whether it is short stroking, fire it with a single round in the rifle and see if it locks back on an empty magazine every time it fires. If it is short stroking it won't lock back all the time. Do this 20-50 times to see what happens. It also may not be coming back far enough to eject the brass and then shoving back into the chamber thus looking like a failure to extract. If it comes back far enough to stovepipe but doesn't lock back, it is probably not getting enough time to eject the round before going back forward. If your rifle is short stroking, you need to look at a couple of things: Check the key on top of the bolt carrier for damage, also look at the gas tube for damage. If either one is out of round it is probably not sealing good enough and not getting enough gas. replace the damaged part and see how it runs. You say you clean it a lot, if you use Q-tips make sure there is no cotton partially clogging the gas key, it sounds dumb but if it has been in PS magazine it has happened a bunch of times. While you are messing around with the bolt carrier, check to see that your gas rings aren't damaged or broken. One other thing to check is your gas tube roll pin, ensure it is in place in the front sight. I
If it turns out it is cycling properly and just not extracting reliably, replace your extractor, it's spring, replace the ejector and it's spring. If you are replacing one it pays to do both at the same time and the costs are not outrageous.
I probably should have asked this question first. but did this problem just pop up with this particular ammo or did it start with other types/brands of ammo? If the rifle has shot some of the Russian steel cased ammo and this problem popped up afterward, your chamber probably needs a real good scrubbing.
To identify whether it is short stroking, fire it with a single round in the rifle and see if it locks back on an empty magazine every time it fires. If it is short stroking it won't lock back all the time. Do this 20-50 times to see what happens. It also may not be coming back far enough to eject the brass and then shoving back into the chamber thus looking like a failure to extract. If it comes back far enough to stovepipe but doesn't lock back, it is probably not getting enough time to eject the round before going back forward. If your rifle is short stroking, you need to look at a couple of things: Check the key on top of the bolt carrier for damage, also look at the gas tube for damage. If either one is out of round it is probably not sealing good enough and not getting enough gas. replace the damaged part and see how it runs. You say you clean it a lot, if you use Q-tips make sure there is no cotton partially clogging the gas key, it sounds dumb but if it has been in PS magazine it has happened a bunch of times. While you are messing around with the bolt carrier, check to see that your gas rings aren't damaged or broken. One other thing to check is your gas tube roll pin, ensure it is in place in the front sight. I
If it turns out it is cycling properly and just not extracting reliably, replace your extractor, it's spring, replace the ejector and it's spring. If you are replacing one it pays to do both at the same time and the costs are not outrageous.
I probably should have asked this question first. but did this problem just pop up with this particular ammo or did it start with other types/brands of ammo? If the rifle has shot some of the Russian steel cased ammo and this problem popped up afterward, your chamber probably needs a real good scrubbing.
You just have to ask yourself, is he telling you the truth based on knowledge and experience or spreading internet myths?
Re: Daniel Defense DDM4V3 FTE
Thanks for the reply and info. I've checked to see if it was short stroking by doing exactly as you described. Every case is extracted. I haven't gone so far as to replace the extractor and spring but that is a inexpensive option. I usually shoot US mfg brass but when I go to the indoor range I shoot the PMC stuff. I have never put russian ammo into this rifle. I also don't use q tips or anything that's gonna leave "fuzz" behind after I clean.grumpyMSG wrote:For starters, when you try to complain about a problem, spell it out completely. FTE could mean failure to extract or failure to eject. Since you are saying FTE and stovepipes, I am guessing you are talking about failures to extract. a stovepipe would be a form of failure to eject. There are two common possibilities with your rifle. it is not cycling far enough back to give it time to eject (short stroking) or your extractor or spring is damaged or weakened.
To identify whether it is short stroking, fire it with a single round in the rifle and see if it locks back on an empty magazine every time it fires. If it is short stroking it won't lock back all the time. Do this 20-50 times to see what happens. It also may not be coming back far enough to eject the brass and then shoving back into the chamber thus looking like a failure to extract. If it comes back far enough to stovepipe but doesn't lock back, it is probably not getting enough time to eject the round before going back forward. If your rifle is short stroking, you need to look at a couple of things: Check the key on top of the bolt carrier for damage, also look at the gas tube for damage. If either one is out of round it is probably not sealing good enough and not getting enough gas. replace the damaged part and see how it runs. You say you clean it a lot, if you use Q-tips make sure there is no cotton partially clogging the gas key, it sounds dumb but if it has been in PS magazine it has happened a bunch of times. While you are messing around with the bolt carrier, check to see that your gas rings aren't damaged or broken. One other thing to check is your gas tube roll pin, ensure it is in place in the front sight. I
If it turns out it is cycling properly and just not extracting reliably, replace your extractor, it's spring, replace the ejector and it's spring. If you are replacing one it pays to do both at the same time and the costs are not outrageous.
I probably should have asked this question first. but did this problem just pop up with this particular ammo or did it start with other types/brands of ammo? If the rifle has shot some of the Russian steel cased ammo and this problem popped up afterward, your chamber probably needs a real good scrubbing.
I'm still wondering if someone could tell me why a 1:7 twist would cause my problem with 55gr vs 62gr and up as the DD rep claimed?
Re: Daniel Defense DDM4V3 FTE
1:7 twist rifling is the standard rifling of the U.S. military in all rifles intended to fire the M855 and M856 ammunition, the 62 grain ball and tracer ammo, the M16A2 being the first. before it the M16A1 had a 1:12 twist for 55 grain M197 ball and M196 tracer.
The 1:7 twist won't create any issues as far as shooting the 55 grain ammo. the U.S. Army shot it in the M16A2 for years (and later in the M4A1s) until the large supplies of ammo were shot up. I don't know why the Daniel Defense rep told you it won't work in your rifle. I do know years ago when Colt sold it's AR15 Delta Elite, there was a recommendation against shooting hollow points out of it, apparently the fast twist and thin jackets were a recipe for the lighter bullets to break up after exiting the barrel. The only reason I can think he would say that is that is, they believe the lighter bullet wouldn't create the recoil impulse required to cycle action properly. A potential solution to that would be to use a lighter buffer, but I would go with replacing the extractor and ejector and springs first.
The 1:7 twist won't create any issues as far as shooting the 55 grain ammo. the U.S. Army shot it in the M16A2 for years (and later in the M4A1s) until the large supplies of ammo were shot up. I don't know why the Daniel Defense rep told you it won't work in your rifle. I do know years ago when Colt sold it's AR15 Delta Elite, there was a recommendation against shooting hollow points out of it, apparently the fast twist and thin jackets were a recipe for the lighter bullets to break up after exiting the barrel. The only reason I can think he would say that is that is, they believe the lighter bullet wouldn't create the recoil impulse required to cycle action properly. A potential solution to that would be to use a lighter buffer, but I would go with replacing the extractor and ejector and springs first.
You just have to ask yourself, is he telling you the truth based on knowledge and experience or spreading internet myths?
Re: Daniel Defense DDM4V3 FTE
Thanks for the info. I think I'm just going to send it back to DD. I've probably only shot 1500-2000 rounds through it and this has been a problem ever since I've owned it. Thanks again.grumpyMSG wrote:1:7 twist rifling is the standard rifling of the U.S. military in all rifles intended to fire the M855 and M856 ammunition, the 62 grain ball and tracer ammo, the M16A2 being the first. before it the M16A1 had a 1:12 twist for 55 grain M197 ball and M196 tracer.
The 1:7 twist won't create any issues as far as shooting the 55 grain ammo. the U.S. Army shot it in the M16A2 for years (and later in the M4A1s) until the large supplies of ammo were shot up. I don't know why the Daniel Defense rep told you it won't work in your rifle. I do know years ago when Colt sold it's AR15 Delta Elite, there was a recommendation against shooting hollow points out of it, apparently the fast twist and thin jackets were a recipe for the lighter bullets to break up after exiting the barrel. The only reason I can think he would say that is that is, they believe the lighter bullet wouldn't create the recoil impulse required to cycle action properly. A potential solution to that would be to use a lighter buffer, but I would go with replacing the extractor and ejector and springs first.