Is it ever OK to shoot cops?

[OakRidgeStars]

That's the question Indiana citizens will have to decide for themselves.

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From AllGov.com

Police officers in Indiana are upset over a new law allowing residents to use deadly force against public servants, including law enforcement officers, who unlawfully enter their homes. It was signed by Republican Governor Mitch Daniels in March.

The first of its kind in the United States, the law was adopted after the state Supreme Court went too far in one of its rulings last year, according to supporters. The case in question involved a man who assaulted an officer during a domestic violence call. The court ruled that there was “no right to reasonably resist unlawful entry by police officers.”

Read more: http://www.allgov.com/Top_Stories/ViewN ... ers_120611

[Reverenddel]

WOW! Talk about setting a dangerous precedent!

The only angle I can see as it being "okay"? When the LEO's make a mistake with the house number, and you being "John Q Public", drinking your glass of milk, reading your bible, singing hymns are disturbed by a group of masked men who burst in masked with firearms, and start screaming orders, and you pop the first three with "Bessie" your trusty firearm, and they proceed with "Capital Murder" charges against you.

Then? Yeah, i think that law would be necessary to be "self-defense".

Maybe it will stop these overt "no-knock" warrants, and "toy play" sessions when they're all "SWAT-ted" up.

[davasmith]

I like this situation. Come in my home unwarranted and die. +1

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[OakRidgeStars]

I don't like this situation at all. Unless you have as many armed individuals as the police, you'll be on the losing end of one hell of a gun fight.

Once you fire on the first cop through the door, it's going to be Game On!

[ratherfish]

10-4

Commonly referred to as suicide by cop. You'll be asked once if they're not too tweaked to surrender your firearms.

I don't know many who could out gun the police.

Might be good to induce a double check on the warrants address though...

[SHMIV]

Ted Nugent could out gun the police. Chuck Norris would just deliver fatal roundhouse kicks from his beard.

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[mamabearCali]

This is a reaction to the Indiana Supreme Court that insanely said we have no right to prevent forced entry of our house by police officers that have no warrant and no probable cause. I hope if anything it causes the local PD to rethink no knock warrants and check the addresses twice before kicking in a door.

[dorminWS]

Seems to me,

On the one hand, a LEO who enters without reasonable cause, a valid warrant, or other legal justification might be reasonably held to be a common trespasser (but he's not, he'll say; he's a LEO). But it also seems just as reasonable to say that whether he should be treated that way should depend upon whether he had been reckless in doing so or made a justifiable mistake. Problem is, nine times out of ten there's probably gonna be no way for the homeowner (or the cop either, for that matter) to know until it's all over.

On the other hand, we might not want to introduce that degree of uncertainty into the law enforcement environment. It might make police too reluctant to enter and endanger both them and the public
But as somebody already said, it wouldn't be a bad thing to motivate a little more caution and respect for the rights of the private property holder.

And finally, I also agree that shooting at a cop, even one who's entering your home unlawfully, is liable to get your killin' done. It could well be one of those situations where you were DEAD right.

The homeowner is in his castle with no culpability and has a right to be and remain safe and sound - at least until he draws his gun or resists the officer. Law enforcement is doing their duty as they see it; perhaps under some stress and pressure and without time for deliberation; and might argue that even though they are trespassing, if the landowner is not violating the law the only injury is to his rights and dignity. Trouble with that is that it flies in the face of multiple centuries of law and tradition.

What's the bottom line? damfino. It's a bad deal any way you look at it.

[Kreutz]

Ruby Ridge.

[moss20]

Ruby Ridge.

AMEN!

[TacticalMom]

This is a reaction to the Indiana Supreme Court that insanely said we have no right to prevent forced entry of our house by police officers that have no warrant and no probable cause. I hope if anything it causes the local PD to rethink no knock warrants and check the addresses twice before kicking in a door.

+1

I am with MamabearCali on this one.

[NRB451]

It sets a good precedent. To say that it is never okay to shoot a cop is to say they are above reproach and above the law. Hopefully (as was already pointed out) this will make them rethink their careless commando tactics and their sloppy work (such as wrong addresses) that have been getting innocent civilians killed. I'd love to get a law like that on the books in VA.

[Diomed]

To say that it is never okay to shoot a cop is to say they are above reproach and above the law.

This. Prior to this law, a cop could walk into your house and start beating you, and any resistance would be a crime; you'd just have to hope you could get it sorted out in court later (if you survived). This is a good law, the FOP hysteria notwithstanding.

I'd love to get a law like that on the books in VA.

I'm pretty sure we're still covered under the common law right to resist unlawful force, like Indiana was before their supreme court stepped on their dicks.

[Reverenddel]

And in true... a review of "No-Knock", and "Warrant Address Verification" needs to done.

I also think that police departments need to have more community time. You cannot protect a citizenry that views you in the same light as the CRIMINAL!

[Wolvee]

Cops are people too. They are not Gods nor humans granted special powers or exception. They do a job and that job does not include the ability to infringe on the constitutional rights of others. If you let anyone or any group get away with special exceptions it creates a class barrier which puts them in a greater advantage and deems a better person by privilege.

This ISC ruling doesn't set an unreasonable standard, this reminds everyone that standards are universal.

I don't know the law or statutes in Virginia but in Michigan, the testimony of an officer is regarded as fact and the testimony of a "Civilian" that questions an officers fact is regarded as trivial and is not fact.

To be clear, I am not a LEO hater, I just think that everyone is equal and that includes LEO's. If you do your job for the right reasons, with humility and no sinful personal pride an employee at McDonalds is every bit as equal as a LEO. The common rebuttal to this statement I get is, that "LEO's put their lives in danger so they should get more respect.". This is a false bit of logic because you assume that a non LEO profession would not have the same amount of bravery. You can't assume that. There are plenty of people who have stepped up to the challenge to defeat or face a situation that needed bravery to endure.

It's a profession that is paid with cash, not power.

[ratherfish]

Advocate the overthrow of the government and hoard guns?
You get what you disserve.
Period.

If nothing else the law serves as a warning to LEO's that they should be more than certain of the address before breaking down a door.

[Wolvee]

I would also like to state my objection to no knock search warrants. There have been more than a few Noknocks that have ended in blood shed and still had no case against the victims or target. They are also lots of cases of violent no knock searches for petty non violebt crimes.

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[Jakeiscrazy]

Bob Marley would have liked this new law.

[GeneFrenkle]

Interesting map. http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

I suspect an overall issue may be that a professional police force should conduct themselves as professionals according to and defined by professional standards (read as the Law and note the repeated use of the word professional). However, serious disregard, ignorance of, or other issues seemingly become categorized as simple errors, oversights, or inconveniences. The impacts of the errors are nontrivial.

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[Rich]

An actual case where I know one of the people involved went like this. The FBI were investigating a man for alledged drug smuggling and had a warrant for his arrest. This mans father was an outstanding member of the community and he and his son shared the same name. Sr and Jr. So the FBI gets a search warrant for the wrong house...the fathers house. The father is awakened by a noise outside and goes to the front door. He looks out and sees guys with guns on his front porch. He runs and calls the police. The police station is only two blocks from his house. The FBI break down the door and throw the elder man and his wife to the floor...injuring both of them. By this time the local police...who had no idea what the hell was going on arrive with guns drawn. The FBI did identify themselves after breaking down the door and identified themselves to the local police after they showed up. The local police were not notified in advance. The elder man and his wife sued the FBI but lost. The son was found not guilty of drug smuggling. The problem with this story is how easy you can see the elder man reaching for a gun. After all...they were at the wrong freaking address and all he knew was men with guns were on his porch. This happended in Va. Could have ended in tragedy.