Opinions on The Health Care Debate

[VBshooter]

More and more I am thinking that this health care issue is nothing more than a socialist experiment. The constant talk of how to pay for it leads me to believe that it is not meant to cover working people but a means for them to pay for everybody else. Granted health care costs have gone ballistic in just a few years , just look at any healthcare mutual fund and you'll see some of the trouble,,, The net asset value of many are through the roof. There was money to be made in them and well funded investors did...My personal experiece has been that my health care insurance (self paid) has gone from $200 a month to $501 in the last 4 years and I don;t have any major problems. So where are all the savings? If we are the ones who will pay for all the have nots along with all the other crazy schemes the government has, there are none. Many health care suppliers,drug makers,hospitals etc: are climbing into bed with the government in hopes of seeing those have nots added to the roles and are imagining outragous profits for their trouble. No matter what the Congress says I don't see our cost going down but going up. In fact I feel any "savings" will be negated by the additional costs to cover the dead wood that won't work , feel they are owed something, or are not in this country legally. I will close this by relating to you all that health care looks like a ticking time bomb and if it goes off prematurely we may not be able to survive the blast.

[Moccasin]

There are a few things that could be done by Congress to help control costs without moving farther towards socialism (we're farther along than many admit- who owns GM now?).

Limiting malpractice suits would help control some of the costs. But this not popular in Congress because then constituents wouldn't be able to reap windfalls like many have done. Granted, if they really botch something up then there should be repercussions but some of the lawsuits are extremely frivolous, lawyers seeing dollar signs and nothing more. I see advetisements on TV all the time for different illnesses that lawyers have sued for, contact them and maybe you'll get money too! Doctors cannot control everything regarding someone's health so don't try to blame them. If one opts to have an operation there is a risk that goes along with it so if the operation results in an infection forget the lawsuit, the risk was known ahead of time. Instead what we're allowing is for people to sue claiming the doctor should have known it would happen. If you pay a mechanic to fix your car and he replaces the wrong sensor does he get sued for malpractice? No, he sometimes gives a break on the bill for replaceing the right sensor.

Another is the cost of prescription drugs. I understand that money goes into research but damn, what are they researching? A drug manufacturer is granted a patent on any drug they develop and for a number of years (10 to 20 I think) they are the only ones who can produce it and if you need it, you pay their price. Place reasonable price controls on these newly developed drugs and see how much costs drop.

Generally those of us who currently have health insurance will end up footing the bill for much of this. Make no mistake, if insurance companies, drug manufacturers, doctors/hospitals, and employers have to help pay for this their prices will increase. None of the aforementioned are in business to give things away, if they were then there would be no discussion about healthcare. Those who do not currently have it will receive insurance based on their income, which means that while I might have employer sponsered health insurance that I pay for my next door neighbor could conceivably make more money than I and pay less for his Government health insurance. Where is the incentive for me?

The man said he wanted to redistribute the wealth. If that is not a socialist statement I don't know what would be. And he appears to be well on his way to making it true.

[06bolton5pt3]

You think healthcare is expensive? Wait until it's free!!!!

I watched on fox the other night which i never knew, but Massachusetts already has a "state run" healthcare and its already bankrupt and say they need some 600 million dollars right now to "save" it. THIS SHOULD TELL PEOPLE SOMETHING!!! a government ran healthcare plan will be the same failure if not even worse!

[Moccasin]

I had heard that about Massachusetts having state run healthcare, I wasn't aware it was that far in the hole. Just goes to show, socialism doesn't work. Someone has to pay the bills, we can't all be one the receiveing end of the freebies. CA has state funded college tuition (think they charge very minimal fees for such things as lab fees, library fees, etc.) and they're in the hole on that. Obama is looking for college money now too. Something like $12 billion over the next 10 years.

[OakRidgeStars]

No question about it, the states with the most liberal policies and programs are the one's swimming in red ink. As if we needed more proof that liberals always get it wrong.

[VBshooter]

I thought it funny that Obama was sniveling on the tube because no one will play ball with him and he had the stones to say"this isn't about me". Of course it is , he;s the one with the big mouth.What has he done since he took office? Condemn the Bush administration at every chance he got , Hell I;m surprised he didn't blame Aids and the Swine Flu on them while he was at it... To me Health Care Reform is just a big party favor he wants to hand out to appease the dead wood that feels this country owes them something .He;s raided the Fed, handed out more goodies than any president in history and wonders why the voters are not getting behind him? WTF is it gonna take to make this man and his group of trolls back the hell off and try to do it right? More and more everyday the people are speaking up louder and clearer and telling him that his politics suck! We all know we can;t sustain a country on give aways, Someone has to actually work to pay for stuff, Preferably their own stuff and not his midguided notion of Utopia.Stop the frivolous lawsuits , get the pharamcuticals under control, and actually find and prosecute fraud in Medicare and Medicaid and I would venture they could cut costs 50%,,, I have spoken to several docs and they all say the malpracice insurance costs are so bad some can barely get by, So in the next weeks this should be regular bare knuckle slug fest in both houses that it will be wise to pay very close attention to so they don;t pass some lame bill at 3AM just to get one done.

[Moccasin]

Sounds like you saw the Meredith Viera interview. Did you catch that he refused to use the word "surtax", claiming instead that his healthcare plan my require "increased revenues" or some such trash. The only time the word "tax" came out of his mouth was when he said the only thing he'd done with taxes was to cut them.

[OakRidgeStars]

As we speak, Obama has the conservative Dem's out in the woodshed for a heart-to-heart chat. I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that conversation.

[zephyp]

This is precisely why Kalifornia is on the brink of bankruptcy. Social giveaways like medical care. I also saw the MA news bit. News to me too. I only hope the bozos in congress watch and heed what's going on around them. This business about providing care to illegals really has me riled. I guess I shouldn't be surprised though. If enough of us across America scream loud enough and let them know their jobs are in jeopardy they will listen.

BTW, I had a thought today on how we can possibly run illegals out of our country. It will take time, effort, coordination, and sacrifice. The reason they are here is to make a buck. A lot of that gets sent back to their home countries so more can come in illegally. Since our government wont do anything here's one thing we can do.

1. Day workers (aka illegals, yes I realize they arent all probably illegal buts thats not my problem) gather at various places looking for work. You know where these places are. People looking for short term cheap workers hit these places for help.
2. Many Americans are unemployed. They need not only jobs but more importantly money.
3. Spread the word. Unemployed Americans can start sitting at these same places. When the boss man appears they need to be first in line and make sure they - not the illegals - are the ones hired for the day. Even if they have to do it cheaper.
4. The word will spread among the illegals. Yes there may be some trouble but they will begin to see that the Norte Americanos mean business and they will be out of jobs.
5. If the illegals know they cant work here they will eventually leave and try someplace else.
6. This needs to be a grass roots movement for Americans to keep American dollars here, get that money for their families, and run the illegals off.
7. As I said this will take time, effort, coordination, and sacrifice. Spread the word. Light a small fire and let someone else feed it. See where it might lead.
8. I realize there arent many folks out there who wants to work for peanuts but any money is better than none. Besides this one may get us a double bonus. Also, its not like they get locked into some long term low paying job. Its day by day and they can still look for regular work.
9. If anyone has Rush Limbaugh's or Glen Beck's ear - tell them too.
10. IANAL so I have no clue about the legalities of someone getting paid for working on a day to day basis nor about me even suggesting this. Anyone know? Bottom line is I've had it and think this might be at least one thing we can do to start cleaning things up around here and put money into American pockets where it belongs - not funding the ongoing flood of illegals into our country.

[VBshooter]

Day workers have been around a long time.. Now the ones you see standing around Home Depot almost always work for cash, The temporary labor halls usually take out Social Security and pay them at the end of the day in cash with the deduction made to cover their ass, As far as hiring them, I know several contractors that can;t get Americans to do the jobs,,And this is semi and skilled labor,, We have allowed the system to literally place such a stigma on working with your hands that the youngsters won;t do it, and they think they are supposed to get top dollar if they do . Everything you see and hear is college this and that, Parents spoiling the crap out of the little dears is not helping one bit either,,A swift kick in the butt can work wonders.
Since the Clinton era has anyone noticed that careers at McDonalds are a freaking reality, THank NAFTA and other tax breaks for that. IMHO the only real effective way to deal with the illegal issue is to refuse to hire them, send their sorry asses back to where they came from ,and cut off any and all services, No medical,employment,welfare ,,Zip,NADA,, And build that fence and use the National Guard to man it 24/7.

[Moccasin]

VBshooter is right about the system placing a stigma on working with your hands but I think there is more to it than that. Kids would rather play computer games (be a programmer or game tester) than perform manual labor, it's like getting paid to play so there is a big incentive in it. I read an interview with Jay Leno about his car collection around 10 years ago, he complained then that finding good mechanics and machinists was becoming harder and harder because nobody wanted to learn those trades anymore.

I'm not aware of any labor halls around my area but I know if you try to go to the Culpeper Tractor Suplly you'll get mobbed by what are most likely illegal aliens. It's too bad to because there was a fairly nice asian buffet in that shopping center. We won't go to it anymore because at lunch time the "illegals" that are still in the parking lot take over the buffet, a new pan of food hits the buffet and they empty it immediately.

[zephyp]

That's too bad. We're slowing being ran out of our own country. So I guess we're just going to give up and let them do it. These things really tick me off. There are American dollars going to illegals that help bring more in and we gripe about unemployment and the illegals. Either we suck it up and quit griping or we do something about it. Maybe I'll hit the 7-11 down the street this Saturday for a day job. I could use a few extra bucks. Maybe even work on my tan so I fit in a little better...

[VBshooter]

With Obama;s election it has become evident to a lot of people that they made a mistake~~ THe up side of that, If there is one, is that so many more are very aware of the real problems in this country are being brought to light, One of the worst things in our society is far too many people have gotten lazy and either want the government to handle it or because it doesn;t effect them they don;t care. The bad thing IMHO is this is what it took to get a lot of them to start paying attention. There are a hell of a lot of people out there who are getting more involved daily, Many for the first time in their lives,,Time will tell how far we can take this,,Momentum is gaining slowly, but it is gaining. Lately more often we see Obama and Congress do a double take when pressured than a few months ago. Let;s keep the pressure on and I think we can reach the goals we need to achieve to set the governmnent on a better track. Doing nothing will guarentee we lose!!

[OakRidgeStars]

Funny, but true....

[logistixz]

id have to agree about this not saving anybody any money except for the people that would use such a system. obama said last night that this would create competition for the existing health insurance companies and premiums would go down, perhaps thats true but then you would get hit with a higher tax bill for the gov't to cover this "plan." why anybody would want more gov't control is beyond me, what happened to land of the free?

[Fordmechanic]

I like the pic, Oak Ridge.....

[zephyp]

A nice summary of why EVERYONE should be against obamacare. Read the second half (1-6) carefully.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2009/07/ ... alth-care/

[wbtrunx]

I hadn't thought of that part before:
Nationalized health care paid for with our taxes could include abortion and euthanasia.

[VBshooter]

Elective stuff should most definitly be off the table..However I bet if you dig into that POS it will only apply to some of the people, My biggest peeve is that the people who have to pay for it will get the least benefit from it, Personally I don;t want to pay for a group of dirt bags sitting on the couch munching potatoe chips and watching TV all day, Or for that lovely little group of individuals that feel our borders are just a minor inconvenience to their trip to the US for their free lunch. Build the damn fence!! If they stopped giving trinlkets out to outfits like ACORN they would have the money and a surplus to pay for it ,THe amount of waste since Obama got elected has gone thru the roof, Barney Frank thinks the treasury is his own lprivate credit union to hand out money to people who should not get it as he sees fit,,He and a lot like him should be indicted and jailed for embezzlement and fraud,2010 can;t get here soon enough,

[zephyp]

Spence, once the GOP gains control again - and they will - I am certain there will be payback. I dont mean out of spite but rather from investigations. The dems are shouting down the GOP at every turn for no good reason. I read today where Pelosi is pushing ahead for a vote on health care anyway. I for one, am tired of these people running their own agenda when its clear that Americans are against something. I am thinking there will be investigations of Acorn and any members of congress associated with them, election and campaign fraud, illegal contributions, and maybe even some legislation overturned. I think after this session that the dems will be finished for good. The GOP doesnt look too good right now as a group but I am convinced they will assume control merely because Americans see now that a dem controlled congress is an out of control congress. No doubt they will only be left with the minority votes during the next election - and there are enough congressional seats up for grabs to turn the tide.