In vehicle when accosted by transients

[codearachnid]

Recently my wife has been aggressively accosted at several intersections and parking lots in Richmond by the homeless/transients who are panhandling or just bumming around. Several times to the point where they have left marks on the vehicle hood and door. Fortunately, she has been inside the car with the windows up each time.

My question: is there a point at which it goes past the brandishing of a weapon when in a vehicle and after the nod of no the person continues to approach to the point of banging on the car/window? I know this can be a grey line and I'm not looking for legal advise as to the line, but rather is there a creative way to "open" carry in a car so that when someone gets right up on the car they can be more cautious especially when approaching a female?

[Diomed]

My thought is that if you're in a vehicle with the doors locked and the windows up, you're about as secure as can be hoped. Remember that it's not just a car, it's also a three-thousand pound impact weapon if you need it to be.

While it's unlikely that a bum would call the cops because you brandished while he was attempting to assault you, you may have to consider bystanders who can't mind their own business. I would note that having a pistol on the seat next to you or on the dashboard is open carry - if it's just sitting there and not being displayed with intent to intimidate (this is where it pays to be careful with one's statements), then it's not brandishing. That doesn't mean some jackbooted cop can't arrest you for it anyway, but that could happen for anything.

[jdonovan]

My question: is there a point at which it goes past the brandishing of a weapon when in a vehicle and after the nod of no the person continues to approach to the point of banging on the car/window? I know this can be a grey line and I'm not looking for legal advise as to the line, but rather is there a creative way to "open" carry in a car so that when someone gets right up on the car they can be more cautious especially when approaching a female?

You are looking to use a firearm as a 'talisman' to ward of evil. Its a GREAT way to go to jail. DO NOT DO IT.

If you need a less-lethal go-away tool get a can of pepper spray.

Or perhaps find a different route home. One with more right turns at intersections so they are more easily run if she needs to get out of an area fast.

[ProShooter]

You are looking to use a firearm as a 'talisman' to ward of evil. Its a GREAT way to go to jail. DO NOT DO IT.

If you need a less-lethal go-away tool get a can of pepper spray.

This.

Pepper Spray would be great in this situation.

http://proactiveshooters.com/sabre-pepp ... gram-csap/

[Wallace]

I would not advise my wife to "display" any weapon to an aggressor. If she is going to pull out a weapon it should be with the intent of using it. Something on display can be taken. I would advise my wife to flee, fight as last resort.

[gregj]

There's always this option. Linky, scroll down to #7




Pepper spray would probably be better though.

[Mindflayer]

Take a different route. Why keep asking for trouble?

[Roverhound]

I've always found not making eye contact to be the best start.
Usually if you don't give them an in they won't bother you. Other than that she may avoid the areas like previously noted. I don't like that option as we shouldn't be intimidated by these people.

[codearachnid]

I agree brandishing a weapon without intent to use is asking for trouble - and if the car is locked when she's in it. I feel fine. The incident in particular that concerned me the other day she wasn't carrying and at Willow Lawn in the Panera parking lot about 730 in the evening when a guy came up behind her as she was getting into the car and grabbed her on the shoulder asking for cash. She screamed at him to get away and got in the car and locked the doors and he banged on the window saying he wanted money. Fortunately she drove away just with rattled nerves.

I do like the pepper spray idea.

In any case I am reminded of the TED talk about moral dangers of non-lethal weapons http://www.ted.com/talks/stephen_colema ... quote=1325

[copfop]

I agree with the eye contact... I had a similar experience off I-10 in Fla. I stopped for gas and after filling up I pulled my vehicle about 100 yds away and made a cell phone call. As I was on the phone three individuals were staring at me and talking. About a minute later they started walking toward my car. I immediately rolled the window down and told them to take their business elsewhere ! They looked at each other and walked away. Good command presence, and a hard look usually does wonders. BTW yes, I was armed and the weapon was never taken out of the holster...

[Alex]

I went and re-read your post; was wanting to put my 2 cents in.

Firstly, it's unfortunate that your wife is put into these types of situations. I know that if my girlfriend were in a similar set of circumstances, it would bother me greatly.

Here is my advice/thoughts on the matter:

1. One should not expose a firearm they do not intend to use. If you need to draw down on someone, your next step is to fire. There's no other reason to present your weapon against a potential threat. Does the situation warrant an armed response? Can't say, I wasn't there.

2. The Logistics. Shooting from inside my car is a losing situation for almost everyone involved. Shattered glass, permanent hearing damage, not to mention the guy who's actually getting shot. (.357mag from a 2 inch barrel in a car cabin, )
I'd much sooner just run them over if I truly felt that threatened. Or even better, I'd run the red light. If I got pulled over, I'd explain the situation.

In short, my opinion is that there are better options available to your wife.

I would throw my vote in with the following solutions:

-Pepper/OC spray:
Being that I work in Armed Security, I have been hit with OC Spray a few times. It burns. Badly. I cannot explain how uninterested I would be in continuing an attack after being sprayed. In fact, I've actually taken to carrying my work spray off-duty in addition to my carry weapon. In my line of work, I've never met someone who wanted to press the issue very much once I had sprayed them. Obviously, YMMV. We are limited in my company on the type and % of spray we can carry. As a Civilian though, I would spring for the nastiest, most painful stuff you can get your hands on.

-Avoiding the Route:
On this topic, I can see both viewpoints. I can understand not wanting to "Run away" from the threat or to be "Intimidated" by these individuals. However, I am of the opinion that you're not really running away, so much as you are avoiding a potential threat. I don't routinely walk through bad areas of town, simply because it's my right. If you know that taking a certain route is more dangerous or presents potential threats that one does not reasonably need to face, I really couldn't justify continuing to use that route. Why put yourself in unnecessary danger?

That's my opinion for what it's worth. Personally, my being armed has made me extra aware of avoiding potential conflicts whenever possible.

Remember: When you're armed, theres a gun in every fight.

[mamabearCali]

I gotta go with the pepper spray and different route. I try to stay away from areas that exude latent negative potential.

On visual deterrence of low-lifes. This is what I do. Now I am a mom with 4 kids with me 99% of the time, so I already look like a nice juicy target, and quite simply sometimes my situational awareness is compromised by the fact that I am try to keep my four year old from dancing in the street. So I try to put in a little visual deterrence too. I wear my NRA hat just about everywhere now, and in my pocket with the clip clearly visible is a pocket knife. Extremely lady like? Not really, but how many girls do you see wearing a NRA hat. If you were in a parking lot and you wanted to accost someone do you chose the girl with the NRA hat, and the pocket knife or the one with the designer purse and heels. No guarantee a thief will see the hat or knife, but I know people notice, because I have gotten comments (both good and bad). I have stuff to back up that NRA hat (both pepper spray and a .45 hand cannon), so you can't just rely on deterrence, but it is a start.

[jmicheals1984]

Is it considered "brandishing" if a Pistol is kept on the front seat for legal open carry purposes? The law states that the Pistol needs to be in broad view, so the dash, console, seat, etc seems to be a reasonable place to keep it.

[allingeneral]

Is it considered "brandishing" if a Pistol is kept on the front seat for legal open carry purposes? The law states that the Pistol needs to be in broad view, so the dash, console, seat, etc seems to be a reasonable place to keep it.

What you just described is Open Carry. it would only be considered brandishing if you used its location to attempt to instill fear into someone - i.e., you point at it and tell someone that they need to move away from you, or you pass a guy on the interstate and gesture toward the gun on your dashboard (or worse, you pick it up).

Recently, Virginia law has changed so that even if you don't have a concealed Handgun Permit, you can still store a firearm in your glove compartment or center console. That way, you don;t have a missile hazard sitting in your passenger seat or on your dashboard.

[jmicheals1984]

Is it considered "brandishing" if a Pistol is kept on the front seat for legal open carry purposes? The law states that the Pistol needs to be in broad view, so the dash, console, seat, etc seems to be a reasonable place to keep it.

What you just described is Open Carry. it would only be considered brandishing if you used its location to attempt to instill fear into someone - i.e., you point at it and tell someone that they need to move away from you, or you pass a guy on the interstate and gesture toward the gun on your dashboard (or worse, you pick it up).

Recently, Virginia law has changed so that even if you don't have a concealed Handgun Permit, you can still store a firearm in your glove compartment or center console. That way, you don;t have a missile hazard sitting in your passenger seat or on your dashboard.

I get real nervous going down I-95 with an unsecured handgun and I heard from someone that around here, some Cops prefer it be in your glovebox while traveling at high speeds due to the risk of a Firearm going off should you slam on your breaks.

[SchultzLD]

Continuum of Force.

[speezack]

I had an incident on the way home one nite... a driver stayed behind me with his high beams on for a long way... finally he passed me and I put my high beams on him for about 15 seconds then dropped them to low... he slowed... I passed again and he sped up and rolled down his window and flipped me off.... when he did that, I pointed my index finger at him... did not do any more than that.... pointed at him and made a gesture like you cock your thumb like you are "shooting"... you know what I am saying I am sure... well, he pulled into a service station and told a cop I pointed a gun at him... I know this because, as I continued home the cop pulled me and started asking me questions... I told him exactly what had happened and that I absolutely did not point a weapon.... only my finger... after a minute or two the cop ask me if I had a firearm in the vehicle... well, it so happens I have a CCP and I guess he knew this when he ran my plate.... I did have a weapon but luckily it was in an overnite bag in the trunk and it would have been impossible to get to it so the cop says "let me see it"... I did... he told me that if the gun had been inside the car... he would have charged me with "brandishing" .... even though it was only my word against the other.... my point is that if you have a gun in your car... you had better make damn sure of what you are doing if you get into any type of confrontation, because it will escalate the situation immediately... even if you don't show it and LE gets involved, it will quickly come into the picture... and you will be the one that has to do the explaining and will probably be the one that is arrested.... after 13 years as a licensed Virginia bondsman... I can tell you... sadly, this is very true.

So... my advice would be... drive off if possible.... get some pepper spray, but if you have a firearm... you better be damn sure of what you are doing if it is in the car..... I know from experience. There is an old saying...."what's right is not always right"....

[Jakeiscrazy]

Call the police. This kinda this thing is there job. Hang around and file a report, document the damage, all that good stuff. Never confuse yourself for a 1 man police force.

[zerodown1]

Recently my wife has been aggressively accosted at several intersections and parking lots in Richmond by the homeless/transients who are panhandling or just bumming around. Several times to the point where they have left marks on the vehicle hood and door. Fortunately, she has been inside the car with the windows up each time.

My question: is there a point at which it goes past the brandishing of a weapon when in a vehicle and after the nod of no the person continues to approach to the point of banging on the car/window? I know this can be a grey line and I'm not looking for legal advise as to the line, but rather is there a creative way to "open" carry in a car so that when someone gets right up on the car they can be more cautious especially when approaching a female?

This might be a time to implement good situational awareness. Try to avoid areas where these low lifes hang out. Always leave room when stopping behind another car at a light to be able to pull out and escape. When approaching a traffic light that is turning red, slow down,approach it slowly without stopping,you don't need to race up to a red light and stop. You want to spend as little time stopped at the light as you can manage.approach slowly,keep moving,play the light if its possible until it turns. Drive around a little in the parking lots and look around. If you see these creatures, don't stop. look for a safe place to park close to the entrance after you have driven through the lot to see who's "hanging out". If it dosen't look safe,don't stop. In these cases you car is secured,doors locked,windows up. There are laws to prevent crowds from hanging out on private property (parking lots). Call the police. Tell the owner you will hold them liable for your safety and that they need to provide security. Use everything tactic you can think of,The firearm is the last thing you want to use.

[speezack]

IMHO, "zerodown1" just gave the best advice in this thread..... Very level headed, solid and to the point.