VA private sales with Military

[huge1911fan]

With lots of Military members in the state. How does the sale of private long guns/handguns work with this?

All I could find was on the VA state police website


Military Personnel

Active military personnel permanently stationed in Virginia (including the Pentagon as of July 1, 2011) are treated as Virginia residents for the purchase of a handgun. Identification and residency are established by the following:

A military photo-identification card issued by the United States Department of Defense and proof that Virginia is the permanent duty station via current military assignment orders is acceptable identification and residency documentation to establish military personnel as residents of Virginia.

If permanently assigned to a mobile unit in Virginia, and the homeport is listed as Virginia; the transaction may be processed as a Virginia resident the same as any other permanent military assignment to Virginia supported by military assignment orders. The individual is treated as a non-Virginia resident if the homeport is listed as any place other than Virginia.

Individuals retired from military service are subject to the same identification and residency requirements as any other person wishing to purchase a firearm; i.e., a primary and secondary form of ID.

http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_VFTP.shtm


I have a friend in FL, non Military, if he came here to buy a used longgun/handgun from me that is a no no. We must use a FFL. But if he WAS Military and on orders to VA more than 90days TAD/ this okay and is correct?

[Diomed]

I have a friend in FL, non Military, if he came here to buy a used longgun/handgun from me that is a no no. We must use a FFL. But if he WAS Military and on orders to VA more than 90days TAD/ this okay and is correct?

As far as I know, yes. Permanent change of station orders for VA make you a VA resident for gun law purposes.

[jdonovan]

as an FFL holder...

Orders indicating PCS for 90+ days, plus military ID = Virginia resident.

Note they MUST be active duty. Not guard/reserves.

For us FFL's they also need the same additional ID's that any other resident would have to produce. Secondary ID, plus proof of citizenship for assault firearms.

Do note, that non-citizens may join the military. Officers (commissioned/warrant) must be citizens, but someone who hands you an ID indicating they are an E2 might not be a citizen.

[rromeo]

Is it required for a private seller to be sure the buyer is a citizen?

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[huge1911fan]

Is it required for a private seller to be sure the buyer is a citizen?

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

I would think so! thats why you show your DL when you buy in private sales.

[rromeo]

Is it required for a private seller to be sure the buyer is a citizen?

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

I would think so! thats why you show your DL when you buy in private sales.

A driver's license does not prove citizenship, only residence.
LEGAL immigrants are allowed to own guns, and can get a driver's license. If a service member wanted to buy a gun from me, even though he isn't a citizen, I would be inclined to sell as long as it's legal.

[Diomed]

Is it required for a private seller to be sure the buyer is a citizen?

The only "requirement", at least in Virginia, is that the seller have no reason to believe the buyer is a prohibited person.

[jdonovan]

Is it required for a private seller to be sure the buyer is a citizen?

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

Read the WHOLE line I posted.

For us FFL's they also need the same additional ID's that any other resident would have to produce. Secondary ID, plus proof of citizenship for assault firearms.

[rromeo]

Read the WHOLE line I posted.

I was reading this line.

Do note, that non-citizens may join the military. Officers (commissioned/warrant) must be citizens, but someone who hands you an ID indicating they are an E2 might not be a citizen.

Since we were discussing private sales, I wasn't sure if you were implying that WE had to verify citizenship too.

[jdonovan]

Since we were discussing private sales, I wasn't sure if you were implying that WE had to verify citizenship too.

Ah, following you now.

so the relevant code is here.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... 2-308.2C01

It looks like it is only an offense for the possessor, not the provider.

[huge1911fan]

Military Personnel

Active military personnel permanently stationed in Virginia (including the Pentagon as of July 1, 2011) are treated as Virginia residents for the purchase of a handgun.

Federal law prohibits the sale or transfer of a handgun to a nonresident of the state in which the handgun is being purchased.

http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_VFTP.shtm

I am confused.

Z is military works in VA, on VA oders but is from FL lives in a home in VA has orders in VA = va resident = legal private sale/handguns long guns?

But Z is not military works lives in va but is from FL = illegal?

It says purchased not transfer/sale?

Because Z is on orders/works/lives in VA = VA resident?

Because if Z lived in NC and was not military that is illegal.

[huge1911fan]

"any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to
believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business
entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the
licensee's place of business is located"

So its legal? because if you show orders to ffl its would be same as private because you follow federal guide lines?

But A confuses me

(a) It shall be unlawful -
(1) for any person -
(A) except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer,
to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms,
or in the course of such business to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in
interstate or foreign commerce; or

So is ffl's except not private sales? I am confused. You are a resident of VA because you are on orders.


://www.savedbyagun.com/files/gca68.pdf
922. Unlawful acts
(a) It shall be unlawful -
(1) for any person -

any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to
believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business
entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the
licensee's place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not
apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State
other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if the
transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the
sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both
such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed,
for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to
have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both
States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person
for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

[jdonovan]

It says purchased not transfer/sale?

You can not conduct a transfer on a firearm you do not own. You must purchase first.

[huge1911fan]

What do you mean?
Is it legal for military to buy sell handguns privately with orders or not? I am getting confused.

[huge1911fan]

Q: What constitutes residency in a State?
The State of residence is the State in which an individual is present; the individual also must have an intention of making a home in that State. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she commutes each day, then the member has two States of residence and may purchase a firearm in either the State where the duty station is located or the State where the home is maintained. An alien who is legally in the United States is considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in that State and has resided in that State continuously for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale of the firearm. See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,” in the General Information section of this publication.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicen ... -residency

Then its legal? please clear this up. Because I am getting confused on the fact it states purchase a firearm, but doesn't say sell? but it says that are a residence and in this state that means FTF sales are legal if one is a residence if your state(va-va)

[jdonovan]

Then its legal? please clear this up.

You seem to be all over the place... what SPECIFICALLY is your question.

[huge1911fan]

The question is, is it legal for va residents to buy from, military who are on orders to va. The 1968 GCA confused me, but ATF website defines (EDITED I HAD TO FIX )


": What constitutes residency in a State?
The State of residence is the State in which an individual is present; the individual also must have an intention of making a home in that State. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she commutes each day, then the member has two States of residence and may purchase a firearm in either the State where the duty station is located or the State where the home is maintained. An alien who is legally in the United States is considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in that State and has resided in that State continuously for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale of the firearm. See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,” in the General Information section of this publication.
"
So then by reading this it is legal, because the service member is on orders to va which = va resident = legal ftf sales. Because he/she is treated is a resident of the state in which his or her pcs is located.

[jdonovan]

The question is, is it legal for va residents to buy from, military who are on orders to va. The 1968 GCA confused me, but ATF website defines (EDITED I HAD TO FIX )

So then by reading this it is legal, because the service member is on orders to va which = va resident = legal ftf sales. Because he/she is treated is a resident of the state in which his or her pcs is located.

Active duty military, who have PCSed to a new duty station are residents of the state they have been assigned to.

[huge1911fan]

The question is, is it legal for va residents to buy from, military who are on orders to va. The 1968 GCA confused me, but ATF website defines (EDITED I HAD TO FIX )

So then by reading this it is legal, because the service member is on orders to va which = va resident = legal ftf sales. Because he/she is treated is a resident of the state in which his or her pcs is located.

Active duty military, who have PCSed to a new duty station are residents of the state they have been assigned to.

Okay then so its legal, if Bob is from FL who PCSed to VA is a VA resident for sales.

[Diomed]

You can not conduct a transfer on a firearm you do not own. You must purchase first.

Not true. Whenever someone receives a firearm on behalf of a legal entity (corporation, LLC, trust, etc.), they are taking possession of a firearm they do not own. There are other situations where it can happen as well.

Ownership and possession are not inextricably linked.