Judge Penetration:Pics and Report

[AppleaDay]

I finally got hold of a Taurus Judge owned by a buddy and connived him into going to the range with me. He does some contract work serving court papers to nonviolent people. So far they've stayed nonviolent but he totes along his Taurus Judge as insurance (see picture).
I've tested various calibers for penetration versus old books, amassing a short table. Included is data on .410 shells fired from a Rossi break-open with a 23" bbl. I've wanted to shoot the same shells from a Judge to see how much the barrel length affects penetration. Today I got my chance.

The short version: My personal opinion is that I'd avoid the Judge as my personal self defense firearm.

The long version: I set a target out at 15 yards (the closest allowed at the range) and plied it with Winchester PDX-1 rounds, 000 buckshot, #6 shot, and some .45 Long Colt (250 grain cowboy loads).
All shells were 2.5" since that's the longest that version of the Judge could hold.
Results: see picture.
Penetration. You will notice that the copper disks from the PDX-1 shells and two of the 000 pellets are stuck in the cover of the book. Also, the BB's from the PDX-1 and #6 barely stuck into the cover. None made their way into the actual book. The .45LC rounds flattened out nicely into immense gobs of lead, were consistent, but only made it ~270 pages.
For contrast here are some of the results from other calibers below. All handgun/rifle rounds were fired at 25 yards while the shotgun shells were fired at 15. Data below is AFTER passing through the cover.
for reference:

23" barrel .410 PDX1=trio of disks: 1180 pages (through and stop)
single disks: 721 pages, 899 pages (average ~810 pages)
BB's: from 231 to 315 pages (average ~275 pages)
000 Buckshot: ~820 pages

9x19mm FMJ= 900 pages
9x19mm 115 grain HP = 500 pages
.38Spl 125g +P HP=500 pages
9x18 95g FMJ = 700 pages
.22LR 36g HP from 6" bbl= 450 pages
.22LR 36g HP from 16" bbl= 950 pages
7.62x39mm = tore through three catalogues like Obamacare and kept right on going.

Accuracy wasn't impressive, either.
Caveats:
1)I know that 15 yards is a few steps outside the intended engagement envelope for a Judge. It's the best I could do and still leaves it comparable to the conditions under which the other rounds were tested.
2) The .45 LC rounds were cowboy action loads and therefore indended to be mild loads. Stouter loads might produce better penetration but would also throw more flash and boom.
3)I didn't get a chance to try slugs. I brought along some 3" slugs but they didn't fit in his gun. Maybe I'll try some 2.5" slugs another time but at ~100 grains I don't expect they'll do as well as the .45 LCs.

As always, keep in mind that I'm just a wahido what likes to shoot things for fun. My tests are entirely unscientific. YMMV. Caveat Emptor. All statements are succeptible to terms and conditions. etc...

[AppleaDay]

Pics are too big. I will try to downsize and post later.

[Jakeiscrazy]

I always use facebook to downside my pics but there are many free sites as an alternative to attaching the images. Good post. I don't care for the Judge either because I really don't see the big advantage to it. It bulky, heavy, ugly(just saying), and limits my range if I use the round it's famous for.

[justsumstuff]

I thought the advantage of the judge shooting shot shells was not to over-penetrate? If it goes through the book isn't that over penetration? I was contemplating purchasing a judge for that reason, I live in an neighborhood so if I do have to shoot, I'd prefer it not travel to the neighbors.
Thanks!

[AppleaDay]

I thought the advantage of the judge shooting shot shells was not to over-penetrate? If it goes through the book isn't that over penetration? I was contemplating purchasing a judge for that reason, I live in an neighborhood so if I do have to shoot, I'd prefer it not travel to the neighbors.
Thanks!

Yeah, but you want to give the attacker more than a skin rash.
The 9mm and .38 hollow points both penetrated about 500 pages while the Judge didn't even make it INTO the pages.
Good luck with whatever you choose but I'd hate for anybody to be disappointed at the wrong moment.

[Reverenddel]

The only thing the Judge has done is make BETTER .410 shells. Before the Judge? There were no such things as "S/D .410 shells", the only exception might have been buckshot..

But this new S/D .410 Shot shell technology has done WONDERS for .410 LONG guns...

[RugerJoe]

I watched a hickok45 review of The Judge on youtube the other day out of curiousity and wasn't too impressed with his results. The guy appeared to be shooting 410 buckshot at spare aluminum air duct tubing and it wasn't even penetrating at distances that appeared to be a good bit closer than 15 yards. Some of the spread patterns were really wide at a fairly close distance too. I can see The Judge as a decent protection firearm if some guy starts trying to yank you out of your car window and you blast him in the face point blank or something, but that's about it.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Diomed]

Impossible! The teevee shows and commercials and magazines all say this is the most awesomest defensive weapon in the history of guns! How can they be wrong?

I mean, exploding watermelons! HOW MUCH MORE PROOF DO YOU NEED!

[AppleaDay]

attempting pic upload. Brace for impact!

[thekinetic]

Honestly all you people downing the judge can kiss the seat of my pants. Why don't you try shooting the six inch barrel version before talking about accuracy. I fired mine today and twenty feet had close clusters and I'm a horrible shot!

As for penetration, news flash PEOPLE AREN'T BOOKS! Why not shoot a pig carcass or ballistic jelly and then talk.

I don't care who you are a .45 long colt WILL kill you as will the other bullets it fires, and they don't you either lucky or in a lot of pain!

[clayinva]

thanks for doing the reseearch. I wondered if the Judge and the S&W Governor might be 'all hat no cattle'; looks like that is the case. I would not volunteer to get shot with one, but it looks doubtful how much it might do in an extreme situation. And, only really applicable to home or vehicle, it seems to me; it would be a royal pain to carry.

[baz]

Thanks for the pictures! salivating...

[AppleaDay]

thekinetc,
I'm sure a 6" barrel would produce better results, especially wtith the .45LC but I'd still be a little dubious about the shotgun shells. You can see from my chart that buckshot was impressive out of a 23" barrel. Slugs out of a 23" barrel were devastating (see pic in second post below). I'd love to test slugs from a 6" barrel. If you're in the neighborhood some time come on by and we'll try it. I'll supply the slugs.

As for the pig carcasses and gel, feel free to test your own gun out, take pics, and get back to us. The ball is in your court.

Below are pics taken using PDX-1 shells from a 23" barrel at 15 yard. You can see the difference in effect compared to the same shells from a 2" barrel.

[AppleaDay]

Bottom pic of the pattern out of the 23" barrel. The drawn circle was 11 inches in diameter.
The top pic was using 1/4 oz, 3" slugs from the 23" barrel. Catastrophic damage.

[thekinetic]

In my gun yesterday I fired branneke slugs which from the feel of the recoil where stronger than the long colts, and way more fun. Now I will say the long colts in a gun that fires only long colts would probably be stronger, lord knows my uncle's ruger kicks like mule, but in the judge it does lose some gases due to having to pass through a bit of cylinder before the barrel but the slugs fill the entire 2 1/2 inches of the cylinder.

Unfortunately I haven't been able to fire shot shells from it but I'm sure due to the rifling in the barrel the pattern will be tighter than a shotguns.

All in all it'll do it's job if needed and in most situations you're too close for distance to matter and probably already have it drawn or have time to draw. Yes it is heavy but in a life or death situation you're adrenaline will do two things 1. make the weight negligible and 2. make aiming hard so having those shot shells in a hand gun becomes an asset more than a liability.

And if I ever am you're welcome to try it.

[AppleaDay]

I don't know about the pattern being tighter because of the rifling. The rifling causes the shot/cup/buffer mass to spin. Centrifugal force (inertia for the purists) due to the spin should make the shot separate more quickly. Patterns from the 3" rifled barrel were definitely bigger than from the smoothbore 23". I don't know if that was due to the spin or the longer barrel. Hmmmmm.
I really need to nab my buddy and drag him back to the range with those 2.5" slugs to see how well they pan out.

[Reverenddel]

All I know? The S/D .410 shells out of an 18" bbl are NICELY grouping, and WELL penetrative!

[thekinetic]

I don't know about the pattern being tighter because of the rifling. The rifling causes the shot/cup/buffer mass to spin. Centrifugal force (inertia for the purists) due to the spin should make the shot separate more quickly. Patterns from the 3" rifled barrel were definitely bigger than from the smoothbore 23". I don't know if that was due to the spin or the longer barrel. Hmmmmm.
I really need to nab my buddy and drag him back to the range with those 2.5" slugs to see how well they pan out.

You're probably right about the shot shells, but I did watch a video of a guy shooting clays with the judge so it can't be that bad.

Now I don't know exactly how accurate the slugs are as they were the first shots I fired from my gun since it was fixed and I was a bit nervous so they ended up lower on the target than I would have liked. Then the cases got jammed in the cylinder, I've heard it happens with certain makes, so I didn't fire anymore of them. I'll have to bring something to dislodge them next time or find some federals which are not supposed to get stuck due to the fact they make rounds just for the judge. In particularly an unusual .410 9 pellet 4 buck.

[davasmith]

"What were dealing with here is a matter of personal opinion". Rifling cannot help buckshot accuracy, once the pellets leave the nest they spread from air pressure and gravity. A judge is a decent personal defense weapon that beats a wooden knife hands down everytime! The one aspect here not mentioned is its a great little weighted item to pistol whip the hell out of a criminal. Now this is creative thinking!
ps. we need a pistol whipping "face" to post here lol.

[AppleaDay]

In particularly an unusual .410 9 pellet 4 buck.

AHA! One thing I wanted to do was try some Brown Bear brass-cased #4 buckshot in my buddy's Judge but they're too long for his. Did you try some of these? They seem to have pretty hard primers and don't always work with my long gun. Half the reason I wanted to try his Judge was to see if it would work with the Brown Bear #4 buck (I somehow ended up with several boxes of it). If they did I'd have handed him the lot and said "Merry Christmas, you can have these!" I didn't get the chance, though.
Has anyone with a 3" chambered Judge tried these? Did they work reliably for you?