Army giving 13,000 MRAPs to local police?

[Taggure]

I wonder how many will be given to the CT Troopers in preperation for thier gun grabs?

[dorminWS]

Well, thanks for the truth anyway. I just couldn't think of a better symbol for mismatched priorities than an old bridge collapsing under the weight of an MRAP driven by the Possum Hollar (pop. 300) PD plunging into a river.

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Dammit, Kreutz, it's a HOLLER, not a hollar. I swear, if you don't work a little harder on yer grammar you'll never be able to "pass" down here in the hills.

[grumpyMSG]

Some folks here get a 5 out of 5 on the tinfoil hat scale. In this case they should not be called MRAPs, they should be called snakes, because the knee jerk fearful reaction to them is based in the simple logic:
"We fear that which we don't understand"



The Virginia State Police have had vehicles with similar protection and in some respects better capabilities for years. The very same things that make MRAPs good for protecting Soldiers from IEDs make them not so capable for domestic law enforcement operations. As was pointed out by several folks, there are serious weight issues, some of which would be reduced by removing some of the add on armor packages intended to stop certain types of IEDs and RPGs. The V shape bottom means a very high profile and high center of gravity. As a matter of fact, toward the end of Iraq, more Soldiers were being injured in rollovers than by actual fighting.

Those old Internationals were around since before I was born. They were supplemented with some Dodge based USAF airbase security vehicles that were built in the '70s and acquired in the '80s. The airfield security vehicles ended up with the State Police because of the same program that the MRAPs are being offered through the Defense Reutilization Management Office (DRMO). The Lenco Bearcats were purchased post 9/11 with funding provided through DHS and the anti-terrorism program. There are multiple agencies throughout Virginia that have used the same program to acquire one of the Ford chassis Bearcats.You want a little more info on the Bearcat: http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/cars/ford ... tem=210834

One of the common themes on VGOF is the need for fiscal responsibility. Now put your self in the Sheriff's shoes, he is an elected official beholden to the electorate. You might be better served by a Lenco Bearcat with lower maintenance costs and get it's service at a local Ford dealer, but you can't justify $250,000 for an armored vehicle that your department might need 5 times a year and train with it 25 more times. At the same time you can pick up a Maxx Pro MRAP from the DOD's DRMO for a signature. The Maxx Pro will be more expensive to service, but you can take it to a truck stop and get it worked on by someone who knows Navistar International trucks. SWAT trucks are like an old farm truck, they might get 2,000 miles year, but you can't haul cattle to market in your car no matter how hard you try. One of the nearby agencies got one of the old State Police USAF security vehicles when offered up by the State Police. Do I view that as them trying to be more militaristic? No way, they picked up a little used vehicle, that will be used more for training than real events. They are being frugal with local tax dollars, just like the fire department that used an old Coke truck for a Hazmat truck for years.

Now look at it from the DOD's perspective, budget cuts coming every year, you are the proud owner of a fleet of trucks that don't serve a purpose to you for now. What are you going to do? Realistically, if the politicians did the right thing they would mothball them properly and save them for the next conflict, knowing they would be needed for convoy escorts in the next conflict. We didn't remember it from WWII, nor Vietnam, why would we learn from Iraq and Afghanistan? Politicians are only worried about the next election, not the next war. Just look at what was done after WWII and again after Vietnam and again after the end of the cold war. We don't learn from history, therefore we are destined to repeat it. DOD isn't trying to militarize the police forces, they are trying to give away as much of the maintenance costs for the fleet of MRAPs as possible.

[WRW]

Well, thanks for the truth anyway. I just couldn't think of a better symbol for mismatched priorities than an old bridge collapsing under the weight of an MRAP driven by the Possum Hollar (pop. 300) PD plunging into a river.

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Dammit, Kreutz, it's a HOLLER, not a hollar. I swear, if you don't work a little harder on yer grammar you'll never be able to "pass" down here in the hills.

If you look at the URBAN dictionary: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hollar
there's a hoot for your holler.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[grumpyMSG]

Well, thanks for the truth anyway. I just couldn't think of a better symbol for mismatched priorities than an old bridge collapsing under the weight of an MRAP driven by the Possum Hollar (pop. 300) PD plunging into a river.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Dammit, Kreutz, it's a HOLLER, not a hollar. I swear, if you don't work a little harder on yer grammar you'll never be able to "pass" down here in the hills.

You need to get it right too, Everybody know the actual name of the town would be Opossum Hollow and the locals would pronounce it the way you spelled it just like Stanton, Bewna Vista, and Wiffle. That is how you identify locals...

[Viper21]

You need to get it right too, Everybody know the actual name of the town would be Opossum Hollow and the locals would pronounce it the way you spelled it just like Stanton, Bewna Vista, and Wiffle. That is how you identify locals...

My personal favorite is "Bot-i-tot" from Botetourt.

[dorminWS]

Well, thanks for the truth anyway. I just couldn't think of a better symbol for mismatched priorities than an old bridge collapsing under the weight of an MRAP driven by the Possum Hollar (pop. 300) PD plunging into a river.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Dammit, Kreutz, it's a HOLLER, not a hollar. I swear, if you don't work a little harder on yer grammar you'll never be able to "pass" down here in the hills.

If you look at the URBAN dictionary: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hollar
there's a hoot for your holler.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
<sigh>....

FIRST, WHY would you expect something called an URBAN dictionary to be right about the proper pronunciation OR spelling of a southern Appalachian usage that dates back for generations? Ain't a damn thang urban about it.

SECOND, I don't NEED to consult the urban (or any other dictionary) about this, IT'S MY NATIVE DIALECT: I'M A FOOKIN' EXPERT.

[dorminWS]

You need to get it right too, Everybody know the actual name of the town would be Opossum Hollow and the locals would pronounce it the way you spelled it just like Stanton, Bewna Vista, and Wiffle. That is how you identify locals...

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That's the thing, gMSGT, I DID get it right. The way the locals say it IS the RIGHT way, because it's their'n; don't you see? It's them furriners that are sayin' it wrong. I'm just trying to learn them better.
....................................

By the way, folks; y'all DO realize I was pullin' Kreitz's leg about being a transplanted yankee who needs to learn some "hillbilly" for his own safety down here, don't you? OF COURSE I know that the valley between two ridges appears in the dictionary as a HOLLOW. That wasn't the freakin' point.. Ah, hell, never mind, dammit.

[dorminWS]

You need to get it right too, Everybody know the actual name of the town would be Opossum Hollow and the locals would pronounce it the way you spelled it just like Stanton, Bewna Vista, and Wiffle. That is how you identify locals...

My personal favorite is "Bot-i-tot" from Botetourt.

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Yeah, or "Behfud" for Bedford.
or, down here, "Osakie" for Osaka, "Konie" for Kona and "Norie" for Nora. Not sure why they turn a terminal "A" into an "ie", but it's very common out here in far SW VA and eastern KY.

and, the way some of the locals pronounce CHILHOWIE defies phonetic spelling. Something on the order of "chiw-howl-eee". But like I said, there's no way to do it justice in print.

[WRW]

@ dorminWS, My point was merely that you could consider the source, and I admit to being miffed that you would think that I consider an URBAN dictionary to be an authoritative data source.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[dorminWS]

@ dorminWS, My point was merely that you could consider the source, and I admit to being miffed that you would think that I consider an URBAN dictionary to be an authoritative data source.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

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I stand corrected, sir.

[RWBlue01]

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I think the concern is that some of them might be misused/overused as was the case with Mr. Geer in Fairfax, VA.

That is the same argument that Anti-gun people make about general population having guns. Even if the majority of people who have guns don't harm other with them........some will.

It is not a good argument. It fear.


How many M16 have been "loaned" to police departments since the LA shootout?
Hell of a lot.
How many cases of misuse have been in the news for these M16s?
None

I have worked with the police in the past. (Not as an officer) I know where they keep an armored vehicle. It doesn't get used for much outside of training. So...no having it doesn't mean it gets used for every day stuff.

SWAT means Special Weapons and Tactics. I am not surprised SWAT "raids" are up. Do you really want Molly the meter maid serving warrants on people who may take a shot at her? Has the number of people gone up since 1980? Have the number of violent drug dealers gone up since 1980? (BTW, My Local police dept. didn't have a SWAT team in 1980. They had a group which acted as a SWAT team, but they didn't have the title.)

NOW....Do some police forces think they are above the law and go over board and .... HELL yes. And when they do, they get in the news and then have to deal with the consequences. The good news about local police is they are being watched by state police. The good thing about state police is they are being watched by the Federals. AND the best thing over all is that the News Media and everyone with a cell phone is video taping the police day in and day out. When they screw up, they are front page news.

BTW, When you get concerned and think the government is having a conspiracy .....remember they can not agree on a budget...they can not agree on foreign policy....they can not agree on anything.

BTW2, Be concerned with small incremental changes in the law. The police implement the law. They shouldn't ignore laws they don't like. PUSH to simplify the law. i.e. If they legalize pot, then it needs to be completely legal (state and fed). Not some half ass plan where having pot is legal, but selling it is not, or you can have 2 oz, but not 3 oz. i.e.2 IF we want to drive 80MPG, then set the speed limit at 80MPG, not set it at 65MPG and have the cops ignore those not pushing 85MPG.

[Kreutz]

Well, thanks for the truth anyway. I just couldn't think of a better symbol for mismatched priorities than an old bridge collapsing under the weight of an MRAP driven by the Possum Hollar (pop. 300) PD plunging into a river.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Dammit, Kreutz, it's a HOLLER, not a hollar. I swear, if you don't work a little harder on yer grammar you'll never be able to "pass" down here in the hills.

Furthest west I've been is Radford; I haven't even come close to the hills.

[WRW]

RWBlue01, why would anybody shoot a process server? Unless it is a warrant for arrest, why any concern?
Despite the bad publicity (and lawsuits) associated with the Geer type incidents, are we seeing any decline in those types of incidents? As I stated earlier in this thread, government agencies DO appear to be experiencing a level of paranoia that had not been seen previously.
BTW, I do not trust the media to be capable of honestly reporting misuse of an M16.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[dorminWS]

@RWBlue01:

I don't think there's necessarily any conspiracy to militarize the police. But I think that it is very clearly happening. That's the thing about government; it screws stuff up even without trying/conspiring to. As my old Pappy used to say, "The road to hell is paved with noble intentions". I also think that a lot of people in government do not deserve credit for noble intentions. Experience has shown that if a capability is developed in any level of government, some bureaucrat will, in the process of exerting every ounce of power and authority they can get by with exerting, find a way to abuse and misuse it. The country has seen a lot tougher times and got by without militarizing the domestic police force; and we don't need it now.

[widefat]

For the record,
The real Possum Hollow runs from Conrad Brothers Marina to Rt. 99 along Old Route 100 in Pulaski County, Va.
This is fact because The VDOT refers to the bridge across Peak Creek as the "Possum Hollow" bridge.
And, at one time, I drove a school bus along that route and part of the official, documented route was " through Possum Hollow". I rode my bike around/in and fished there.
Also for the record, it was and forever will be pronounced "possum holler".
Any other "Possum Hollows" are posers and pretenders.

[dorminWS]

Brand new MRAP apparently making a run to McDonald's

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2014/03/11/ ... age-105698

[Reverenddel]

Maybe grumpMSG is okay with militarized police.

I am not.

I am not a cop. I am just a regular guy. As should ever cop be, and hope to stay. When you make an "Us vs Them" mentality, and make it "Cops vs Criminals, with Civilians in the middle as potential criminals."

That's bad for the public.

[grumpyMSG]

I am just a regular guy too, I don't have as many issues with the Police or Sheriff's Department as so many folks seem to have. I have even testified at a trial that many folks would say the wrong person was charged in a vehicle accident. However I was the first person on the scene, after a driver T-boned a minivan. I was one traffic light's time behind the car that hit the van. The van driver said he never saw the car, it was for good reason, the car's headlights were off at night. I could have done like so many would, make sure the folks involved were OK and moved on but I believe we do have a civic duty to assist both motorists and the officer investigating an accident. If I hadn't told the officer about the person passing me with no lights on, my flashing the lights trying to get her to turn hers. The gentleman who just had his minivan totaled would have been blamed for the accident.

It is my not so humble opinion there are two reasons that law enforcement officers get the us versus them mentality. The first reason is they interact with people with poor judgment or criminals more often than anybody except for tow truck drivers and the second is so many people are taught to be suspicious/ have animosity toward the officer. If I immediately treat you with distrust and no respect it won't take two moments for you to start doing the same to me.

Maybe it was because I spent so much time in the National Guard serving with a bunch of LEOs or it was training every couple of years with the State Police on civil disturbance training. They are just another guy like you or me, They put their pants on just like me. They just wear a pistol, a vest and a campaign hat at work. Maybe if you started B.S.ing with one at the local gun shop, your opinion would change. Most of the ones I know like to pull the trigger just like me. Most of them don't want anything to do with gun control.