Virginia Gun Owners Forum - VGOF

If you were transporting that weapon legally and willingly told the cop about it, you should be able to get it back IMO,, The bad thing is you will have to pay a lawyer to help... Go to the VCDL website http://www.vcdl.organd look at their list of gun freindly lawyers , One will at least give you a free consult I'm sure to let ya know if you do have a case,,It does sound to me like you got the shaft

Lots of different facts here....

If you "had been at the range a few days before and forgot to take it out" you can't claim that exemption under 308. What you did a few days ago is not relevant. You would have had to be going to or from the range on the day you were stopped.

The gun in a locked case was a good start but if it was in the passenger compartment, then you were "carrying" it. If you had put it in the trunk, then you'd be "transporting" it and would have been fine. Since you were carrying it, concealed, without a permit and couldn't claim that "going to the shooting range" exemption, you are guilty.

A single violation of 18.2-308 is not enough to disqualify you from getting a CHP. If you get any other conviction though within so many years, you may be disqualified from getting a CHP.

As for your gun, the court should have indicated whether or not it was to be destroyed. The arresting officer would have to fill out an SP-181 form which turns it over to the VSP for destruction.

sorry I took so long to respond, its been a long busy weekend.

i wasnt useing the being at the gun range as an excuse at the time, just simply stating here why I had the gun unloaded in a case in the back seat of my car. I was lazy and just never took it out and that was my fault. At the time I told the officers that I did have the gun in the car because I didnt think I was doing anything wrong, and well I still dont think I did anything wrong.
It seems it was just a fine line on the whole case issue and because my lawyer was an idiot I got the bad end of it.

I talked to someone at the VCDL and he explained to me that I am still allowed to own a gun, and that I can still get a CHP. He also thinks I got screwed in the deal and that I should still use my rights to own a gun, and I will now that I know I am legally allowed to.
He did say I prob. will not be able to get my gun back from the courts.

proshooter - how do I find out if the courts destroyed the gun??

Thanks for all the help everyone

While I would agree that it seems you didnt intentionally do anything wrong, viewing the facts as you presented them, I would opine that you were in fact in violation of the law as I detailed it above. It is a fine line and your intentions seem honorable, but the fact is, you were "carrying" a concealed handgun within your wingspan and control in the car and you were not exempt based on the exemptions listed in 18-2-308 nor did you have a CHP. I'm not sure of any way that a judge could have seen it differently, which is a shame in this case.

Now, if you had a lousy attorney, well, that really can't be helped at this point. He could have appealed the guilty finding within 10 days of the trial and maybe got you a better outcome.

As far as the destruction, I'd go to the courthouse where you were tried and ask the clerk to pull the file. The judge/clerk would have noted if it was to be destroyed. If that fails, I suppose that you could always FOIA the VSP for their record.

Sorry to hear that this happened to you.

I agree, I was not sure if I was in the wrong or not. At the time I thought as long as it was in a gun case and the case was in plain view and the gun was unloaded then it was legal, I never though it would be considered concealed because it was in the case and the actual gun could not be seen.

But it is over and done with now, and when I carry for now on, I will keep it out of the case and in plain view and will have my CHP.

One of the things that I always suggest to my students is that they take our secondary class that discusses the laws. So many people place themselves in danger of arrest because they dont know what the laws are, or how to read the Code. Most people just take the minimum safety class and move on.

I hope that you can find out what happened to your gun. Best of luck to you in the future.

I have a question here, I own a truck with no trunk, just front seats and a rear bench seat, now if im pulled over on the way to or from the gun range, and my guns are in a gun bag in the rear bench seat not only are they unreachable and unaccessable while driving, in my opinion they are put away while transporting to a place to shoot or on my way home, could I still be charged for concealing my fire arms? the whole reason for putting the fire arms in the rear in the first place is not to conceal them, but to make them unreachable, in trying to keep reasonable compliance with the law....and another thing, I carry several weapons on the way to the range. do I really have to take all those guns out of the bag and lay they all in the backseat just so they are not considered concealed? how stupid have we become in our law making?

is their a big neon sign i can buy that says hey stupid im carrying guns to go to the gun range to place on my truck just in case some moron pulls me over and wants to charge me with everything he can think of and including things i never heard of?

AXEL wrote:I have a question here, I own a truck with no trunk, just front seats and a rear bench seat, now if im pulled over on the way to or from the gun range, and my guns are in a gun bag in the rear bench seat not only are they unreachable and unaccessable while driving, in my opinion they are put away while transporting to a place to shoot or on my way home, could I still be charged for concealing my fire arms? the whole reason for putting the fire arms in the rear in the first place is not to conceal them, but to make them unreachable, in trying to keep reasonable compliance with the law....and another thing, I carry several weapons on the way to the range. do I really have to take all those guns out of the bag and lay they all in the backseat just so they are not considered concealed? how stupid have we become in our law making?

As long as they are cased and unloaded in the back you should be fine. I went through the gate at Quantico one day with a boatload and delcared them cased and unloaded in the back of my truck. No problems.

Thanks Zephyp, I still am not sure of the difference between my situation and the Danial who opened this discussion..his firearms were actually consficated...with jail time...im trying to stay on the right side of the law...they say ignorance of the law is no excuse, thats why im trying to clear up the questions.

AXEL wrote:Thanks Zephyp, I still am not sure of the difference between my situation and the Danial who opened this discussion..his firearms were actually consficated...with jail time...im trying to stay on the right side of the law...they say ignorance of the law is no excuse, thats why im trying to clear up the questions.

No prob. The fundamental difference between us and the original poster is we have trucks and it looks like he was in a car. He would have been in a much more defensible position had he locked the gun (cased and unloaded) in the trunk and not been speeding. I think it evident for us with trucks and extended cabs that the only sensible thing we can do is make sure they are cased unloaded and behind the seat.

Btw, I also try to make sure I give LE no reason to stop me when I carrying which is most of the time. It pays to try and follow the laws. Some of the people I see driving, esp on 95, need to be stopped as they are clearly a danger. For one of those folks, if a LEO finds more reason to lean on them they most probably will. Like a cased gun on the back seat rather than the trunk. Kind of like busting Capone for tax evasion rather than all the more heinous crimes he comitted.

Am I obligated to inform the officer after being pulled over, lets say for a rust spot on the license plate, or dirty mirrors, that i am transporting firearms to the range?

No you don't unless they ask... Looking at Daniels issue again I wonder how much this had to do with his arrest. That little thing of ammo stored with the gun IMO may have been the clincher for the cop to look correct in court and push for a concealed weapon rather than a simple transport.The clip was not in the gun, nor was the clip loaded but the empty clip and some ammo were in the case along with the gun.

VBshooter wrote:No you don't unless they ask... Looking at Daniels issue again I wonder how much this had to do with his arrest. That little thing of ammo stored with the gun IMO may have been the clincher for the cop to look correct in court and push for a concealed weapon rather than a simple transport.The clip was not in the gun, nor was the clip loaded but the empty clip and some ammo were in the case along with the gun.

The ammo had nothing to do with it.

It was the fact that he was carrying the gun concealed without a permit or an exemption under 18.2-308

It was just thought, I do agree on the concealed carry, Sometimes in a situation where LE could cut someone a break there's a small circumstance that stops them from doing it.

Looks like this discussion has evolved into something similar that I've brought up in my post - http://vagunforum.net/virginia-laws/cod ... t2111.html

I'm curious now what would it take to get the law changed in VA so that CHP holders are exempt from section A of 308.

This would allow the long rifles to be carried concealed "within reach" inside a car/cab. Other concealed weapons to be carried - like knifes, swords, etc...

I'm gonna bet that had the case had a lock on it, that would have made enough of a difference that the case may not have gone that far. It seems a bit of a stretch to say that somebody with an unloaded firearm in a locked case in the back seat was up to no go. But certainly, if you have a trunk, put the firearm there.

I have a truck with a bed cap. I have to put mine there when transporting to the range. I hate that, because under heavy rain it gets wet back there and the lock is flimsy.

It honestly seems that many of these laws are "gotcha" laws. They really aren't on the books to stop crime, just jam people up when the authorities would otherwise have nothing to charge.

Gott-cha laws....hummI bet the framers to our constution never heard of one of those. I can see it now. Now
Mr Adams please sign here that you are to appear in court for carrying firearms illegally. And you Mr. Hancock are his accomplice, therefore your court date is right after Mr Adams. I think it was the very gott-cha laws that those guys wrote the second amendment to our consitution for. you know, that little fine print clause in there that says (this right shall not be infringed upon.) Now Mr. Adams and Mr Hancock, we have a quota of tickets to write to meet our Christmas bonus, you know its nothing personal. you probrably wont see any jail time just pay the fine.

Constitution is spelled like this....lol

AXEL wrote:Am I obligated to inform the officer after being pulled over, lets say for a rust spot on the license plate, or dirty mirrors, that i am transporting firearms to the range?

In VA you are not required to inform LE if you are CC or transporting firearms or otherwise. Most of us do inform when CC out of courtesy. They know you are a CHP when they do the DL check. Other states have diff laws and some you must inform even if you stop one on the corner to ask directions.