Gun safety classes in elementary schools

[fireman836]

One of those "stories" (I call them "literary disasters") put a child hiding in the closet of his friends parents. Not only that, but the boy snoops through the closet and finds a gun.

One, when I was that age, I assumed that every parental closet contained firearms. Two, (and more importantly) why the hell is that kid snooping through that closet, anyway? I would have slapped my friend silly if I had found him in my parents room.

At any rate, I'm more concerned with where this fictional child felt he had a right to be, as opposed to what he found while there. I'm rather annoyed that the snooping is implied to be ok.

That's part of the new homeland security don't cha know? Teach kids to snoop and report on the adults.

[fireman836]

Received a reply from Ms. Cave

Good Morning,

Thank you for your comments Mr. Xxxxxx. Thank you for reading through the curriculum. We do not intend to imply that guns are “bad.” Nor do we intend to imply that no persons can carry a gun legally except for those with concealed weapons. The General Assembly wanted children to understand what to do should they encounter a gun by accident and to understand how to act safely to avoid harm to themselves and others. Thank you for your observations. These are points we can clarify.

Cindy Cave

Cynthia A. Cave Ph.D.
Director, Office of Student Services
Virginia Department of Education
101 N. 14th Street
James Monroe Building
Richmond, VA. 23219
(804) 225-2818

I don't recall the bill that passed the state legislature or what it said. I need to research and read more of the curriculum then maybe contact her again.

[dorminWS]

I took the liberty of reporting this to the NRA. Got this reply:
............................................................................................
Thank you very much for contacting NRA-ILA and for sending this news item. These are extremely valuable to our research efforts. Rest assured that with your help, NRA-ILA will work to promote our pro-freedom agenda in Washington, D.C., and in state legislatures nationwide.

Again, thank you for sending this information and please do not hesitate to share any of your thoughts or concerns in the future.


Sincerely,
Kyle C
NRA-ILA Grassroots Division
.............................................................................

Probably come to nothing.

[AlanM]

I'm wondering why and/or how the bureaucrats decided that the NRA's Eddie Eagle program needed to be copied (badly in my opinion) instead of just using it.
Finnigan Fox instead of Eddie Eagle that's SO MUCH easier to say and remember. NOT!

Paraphrase the FOUR, not three, rules.
STOP!
DON'T TOUCH!
LEAVE THE AREA!
TELL AN ADULT!

Their versions are harder to say and remember.

Of course, the Eddie Eagle program has been successfully presented to 21 MILLION children since 1988. The program and curriculum has been polished and re-polished until it is as nearly perfect at getting the attention and participation of the K thru 3 target population.

[justsumstuff]

My email is sent to the attorney general pointing out at least one problem.

[SHMIV]

One of those "stories" (I call them "literary disasters") put a child hiding in the closet of his friends parents. Not only that, but the boy snoops through the closet and finds a gun.

One, when I was that age, I assumed that every parental closet contained firearms. Two, (and more importantly) why the hell is that kid snooping through that closet, anyway? I would have slapped my friend silly if I had found him in my parents room.

At any rate, I'm more concerned with where this fictional child felt he had a right to be, as opposed to what he found while there. I'm rather annoyed that the snooping is implied to be ok.

That's part of the new homeland security don't cha know? Teach kids to snoop and report on the adults.

Right... Just like the Hitler Youth, isn't it?

[allingeneral]

Here's the response that I received from Ms. Cave at the Virginia Dept of Education:

Good Morning,

Thank you for your comments Mr. Schmo. Thank you for reading through the curriculum. We do not intend to imply that no persons can carry a gun legally except for those with concealed weapons. The General Assembly wanted children to understand what to do should they encounter a gun by accident and to understand how to act safely to avoid harm to themselves and others. Thank you for your observations. These are points we can clarify.

Cindy Cave


Cynthia A. Cave Ph.D.
Director, Office of Student Services
Virginia Department of Education
101 N. 14th Street
James Monroe Building
Richmond, VA. 23219
(804) 225-2818

Can't say that I care for the way she says "These are points we can clarify."

[fireman836]

Here's the response that I received from Ms. Cave at the Virginia Dept of Education:

Good Morning,

Thank you for your comments Mr. Schmo. Thank you for reading through the curriculum. We do not intend to imply that no persons can carry a gun legally except for those with concealed weapons. The General Assembly wanted children to understand what to do should they encounter a gun by accident and to understand how to act safely to avoid harm to themselves and others. Thank you for your observations. These are points we can clarify.

Cindy Cave


Cynthia A. Cave Ph.D.
Director, Office of Student Services
Virginia Department of Education
101 N. 14th Street
James Monroe Building
Richmond, VA. 23219
(804) 225-2818

Can't say that I care for the way she says "These are points we can clarify."

Hey Rick looks just like the one I got! Word for Word.

[JayDT]

The discussion with the children should start with our 2nd Amendment rights and move on from there. We have a right (and duty) to protect ourselves and loved ones. This and proper training in the use of firearms (as is done with other tools) should be the foundation of the instruction.

[justsumstuff]

The discussion with the children should start with our 2nd Amendment rights and move on from there. We have a right (and duty) to protect ourselves and loved ones. This and proper training in the use of firearms (as is done with other tools) should be the foundation of the instruction.

I agree, but this goes against everything that is taught. It is the rare occasion that 2 students in a fight are not both suspended, even if one is just defending themselves. The rules are that authority is not to be questioned.

[SnakeEater]

Just seems to me any time the government or the Board of Education is involved it can never be a good thing. It always winds up lopsided or even one sided and never balanced.

Will

[justsumstuff]

Just seems to me any time the government or the Board of Education is involved it can never be a good thing. It always winds up lopsided or even one sided and never balanced.

Will

yup. It just raises my hackles that the "educated" always think they know best.

[dorminWS]

Sorry to keep kicking sleeping dogs, but I've been out of town since last Saturday.

I'm bemused by Ms. Cave's statement in her (apparently) form letter that "The General Assembly wanted children to understand what to do should they encounter a gun .......".

That language implies there was a statute passed. But I never heard about one, and I'd be surpised if they did - unless perhaps they passed one they didn't realized could be used for this. Did anybody find out what bill or other governmental action authorized this activity by the BOE? If I knew, I'd like to bend the ear of a few Virginia legislators about this issue. But I need to know exactly whose toes I'm treading upon first.

[TenchCoxe]

Received a reply from Ms. Cave

Wow, good on ya. I didn't hear back from her at all. Maybe after a few replies, she got fed up with replying.

[TenchCoxe]

By the way, the law was enacted in 2010.

CHAPTER 859
An Act to amend the Code of Virginia by adding a section numbered 22.1-204.1, relating to firearm safety education.
[H 1217]
Approved April 21, 2010

Be it enacted by the General Assembly of Virginia:

1. That the Code of Virginia is amended by adding a section numbered 22.1-204.1 as follows:

§ 22.1-204.1. Firearm safety education program.

Local school boards may provide firearm safety education programs for students in the elementary school grades. To assist local school boards electing to provide firearm safety education programs, the Board of Education shall establish curriculum guidelines for a standardized program of firearm safety education for the elementary school grades to promote the protection and safety of children enrolled in the public schools. The curriculum guidelines shall incorporate, among other principles of firearm safety, accident prevention and the rules upon which the Eddie Eagle Gunsafe Program offered by the National Rifle Association is based. Local school boards electing to provide firearm safety education shall offer instruction pursuant to the Board's curriculum guidelines and shall integrate firearm safety education into appropriate subject areas, if feasible, to ensure that every elementary grade student completes the course of study in firearm safety education

That is the entire statute.

All it says is that local school boards "may" provide firearm safety education programs for students in the elementary school grades. This is optional, not mandatory. But it then says that To assist local school boards electing to provide firearm safety education programs, the Board of Education "shall" establish curriculum guidelines for a standardized program of firearm safety education for those local schools to use. So the B of E is required by state law to develop this curriculum, but no local school is required to use it, unless they elect to have a firearm safety program.

[ProShooter]

Received a reply from Ms. Cave

Wow, good on ya. I didn't hear back from her at all. Maybe after a few replies, she got fed up with replying.

She didnt respond to me either.

[seeknulfind]

Now that I think about this, they should issue a certificate upon successful completion so the kids can qualify for a ccp when they turn 21.

[ProShooter]

Now that I think about this, they should issue a certificate upon successful completion so the kids can qualify for a ccp when they turn 21.

I would not consider the Finnegan the Fox, or even the Eddie Eagle program sufficient to qualify as gun safety towards a CHP.

[seeknulfind]

Now that I think about this, they should issue a certificate upon successful completion so the kids can qualify for a ccp when they turn 21.

I would not consider the Finnegan the Fox, or even the Eddie Eagle program sufficient to qualify as gun safety towards a CHP.

Yeah but wouldn't it be sweet to force the folks behind this to stand up and make it count? It's the irony I'm going for here - not your livelihood.

Andy

[AlanM]

I realize that this is a nearly 4 year old thread but I'm curious.
Does anybody know how to find out how well this program has been accepted.

I know for a fact that here in Albemarle county the Albemarle County Sheriff's Office runs several NRA safety programs.
See: http://www.albemarleso.org/
including:
Eddie Eagle Gun Safety
Refuse to be a Victim
First Steps Course for CCW
Home Firearm Safety
Hunter Education and Safety
and (not NRA) the McGruff Crime Prevention Program

Is there some where that I can find out how many schools have used the VA DOE developed program?

I was a Navy instructor when my first child was just learning to talk and around that time the Children's Television Workshop, through EXTENSIVE research, developed a preschool learning system that became Sesame Street.
I was quite impressed with the concepts that CTW came up with.
Some are obvious but apparently the "esteemed educators" that produced the VA "Freddie Fox" program missed that lecture.

Their unabashed copying of the Eddie Eagle materials and catch phrases is truely sad.
For example, which rolls off the tongue easier and is more memorable for a 5 year old?
Stop!
Don't touch!
Leave the area!
Tell an adult!

OR
See a gun?
Leave it alone!
Leave the area!
Let an adult know!

OH, and "Finnigan Fox" is SO MUCH easier on the tongue than "Eddie Eagle". NOT!

I just found this editorial that was posted in 2011 and I had arrived at the same conclusions back then.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/0 ... sed-by-pc/

The NRA has had over 150 years of experience at teaching gun safety and the Eddie Eagle is a finely tuned, well researched, polished program that has worked well for decades to teach basic gun safety to somewhere around 30 MILLION children.

RE: costs to the schools:
I do know that the Eddie Eagle costume has to be paid for but what about the handouts and workbooks?
OK, I just found the answer to the above question. https://eddieeagle.nra.org/resources/program-materials/
It looks like it costs less than 50 cents per year per student for the materials.

In the case of the Eddie Eagle costume this page has that information and is VERY specific about NOT using Eddie Eagle to promote gun usage. https://eddieeagle.nra.org/resources/mascot-costume/

I really want to know what the tax payers of Virginia got for their money.