"Practical" Gun Control in VA

[rynhere]

All,

I don't know if this is really an op-ed rant or what, but I wanted to get something off my chest. I live in Chesterfield, southside of Richmond. I know that this is a traditionally gun friendly state, right? It was billed that way. I moved into this area from out west about 15 months ago. The area I came from is likewise gun friendly, so I thought that this would be a 6's experience.

However, in practical terms I wanted to point out that we've been duped. Virginia appears to have some of the most severe gun restrictions that exist anywhere in the country. I'm sure that there's some that will send me a friendly "you're an idiot" note on this point, but it's true. Not because VA's laws close the front door. They don't keep you from getting a gun. Oh yes, you can easily buy one and easily find ammunition. Gander Mountain, Bass Pro, several specialty gun stores will all sell you everything that you need. BUT, and this is where the gun control comes into play. THERE'S NO WHERE TO SHOOT IT!!!!....and if there's no place that I can easily shot the darn thing - that's gun control in my book.

Some will say, "Hey wait now, there's Dominion range in Midlothian". That cruddy little basement should be condemned. Half the lane target hangers don't even work, are you kidding me? I feel like I should get tested for lead poisoning every time I've been in there. That's the only place that's available?! How did this happen?! How did we all let county and city ordinances come up that would prevent the building of ranges? There's a scant few private ranges that will charge you an arm and a leg, require you to put in more hours of community service then most criminals and then wait for 3 months to 3 years to get in. Insane!

Where's the uproar on this? Why hasn't anyone developed a 100 yd range in the local area in the last 30 years? Why haven't we elected leaders that would help us with this? I can't believe it.

Does anyone agree? Should we be pushing for ordinance changes and grant variants to allow for the building of more ranges in this state? The shooting sport is suffering guys and gals and I just wanted to point out that I appear to be the only one who sees it - and that scares me. Anyone with me?

[Jakeiscrazy]

There is a new range opening up http://www.colonialshooting.com/
suppose to be really nice.

But there is a shortage of places to shoot. Also check out Fort Lee POW Range.

[rynhere]

So, why is that the case? The key ingredients couldn't be more simple .. and cheap:

1. 150 yards of land, relatively well graded
2. A good mound of dirt, shaped into a "U"
3. Wooden posts buried at regular intervals
4. A kid willing to pick up spent brass at the end of the day
5. A guy who likes to show noobs how to clear FTE's ... er rangemaster

...and voila! a range is born.

This range you mention that's in the construction phase, looks like another indoor....so that'll be great for pistols - might put Dominion out of our misery and leave us with one nice pistol range, instead of one cruddy one. But that's not a net improvement of the situation. Fort Lee POW...you mean that range that's open 6 hours a week? That's just sad.

Why are there so few in the area? Seems to me that ordinances are keeping new ones from opening. That's a problem. One that we should fix.

[SHMIV]

Hmm... I just posted a similar concern....

Incidentally, finding "a kid to pick up spent brass" is easy.... Just clean up after yourself, lol. I think that that would fall under "responsible gun ownership".

[rynhere]

LoL, quite true. Forget the zitty teenager and tell range users that their mother doesn't live there. Good idea.

So what do we do? There appear to be some and perhaps many that simply don't see this as a problem.

I came from a state where I was within 30 minutes or less of 5 public ranges, including rifle. Here, I have one pistol range that should just have a grenade dropped into it, to finish it off (Dominion) and one rifle something....I hesitate to call it a range since it's only open for a few weeks to sight-in for hunting season (Amelia, sp?).

Everything else is private, which appears to mean that you're waiting in line for someone's great-great grand pappy to pass on because he got a membership when he swapped spit with the original settlers in Jamestown. . .and this is gun friendly?

[SHMIV]

Well, I just made a case, apparently at the same time you voiced your concern, for petitioning state parks to open firing ranges. But that's something that would take a while. I want to shoot now! I'm sitting here with a weapon that's never been fired. Should I need to defend myself, I'd like to be confident that it actually works, lol.

[rynhere]

Great idea! State parks might be able to pull it off faster than federal parks, but your right, there'll be red tape that will take time, even if people like the idea.

But that's just one example of where we need it to open up. Why don't we have ordinances to allow for existing, unused land to be rezoned to be a range? From plans to completion shouldn't take any longer than 3 months to build one and then we have an outdoor, public range. Zoning restrictions need to change.

Another example, why can't Chesterfield county - a rural county by all accounts, allow it's citizens the same rights as residents of other rural VA counties have, where some areas allow shooting in their own backyard?

[SHMIV]

In many cases, I can fully understand why you can't shoot in your back yard, and it has to do with whatever is on the other side of the property line. I'm not too familiar with Chesterfield. I've driven through the county more times than I could count, and I may have even stopped for gas in that county, but that's about it.

I know that I grew up in the 80's and 90's, and I learned shooting in my back yard. But, then, you also found ashtrays in the aisles at grocery stores, too. The popular mindset has changed since then.

Right now, we have a gun-friendly Governor in Virginia. We may want to start talking to him while he is still in office.

[rod]

I shoot on private property and get the cops called on me every time. I'd like to see more ranges too. I'm pretty sure the liability insurance costs are a factor in opening more ranges.

[jdonovan]

You moved to the wrong corner of the state. Up here in NoVA there are quite a few ranges... if you are into hand guns.

If you want to shoot rifles, outdoors, well, you're going to have to drive a while to find a range.

The state does have a number of nice public, free ranges, but they are not co-located with the population centers.

[newdovo]

Another example, why can't Chesterfield county - a rural county by all accounts, allow it's citizens the same rights as residents of other rural VA counties have, where some areas allow shooting in their own backyard?

Chesterfield isn't the rural county that it was 40 years ago. There are some rural areas still around, but there are lots of suburban areas, too. And as development continues in what was rural Chesterfield, areas to shoot tend to get sqeezed out.
There used to be an Isaac Walton League in the Midlothian area a few decades ago. There's a neighborhood there now, Walton Park. From my understanding, the range was under increasing pressure to sell off some of the (increasingly valuable) land. Once houses started going up, no one wanted a range in their back yard. Eventually the place closed, though it had been there long before the neighborhood.
I think zoning rules in the county have a lot to do with where one can shoot and where one can not. For example, agricultural zoned areas have different rules than commercial or residential.

[Reverenddel]

Agreed. I think more, and more handgun places are opening up, but MORE state forest, and parks need to facilitate RIFLE ranges..

But some dumbass will use "tracers", set it on fire, and the range go bye-bye.

Society as a whole has a bad habit of punishing the many for the stupidity of the few.

It's why I cannot purchase, and carry an auto-knife, but I can purchase, and carry a 9mm.

It's why I cannot just BUY an SBR, I have to pay someone $200 for their "permission".

It's why I cannot own a radar detector, even though the flow of traffic passes my lowflying driving Honda.

Society... is a contridication of itself. Hypocritical till the end, a "Do as I say, not as I do" democracy of sorts.

I just realized typing this. I am no longer a Republican. I am a Libertarian. I need to change my voting registration.

[rynhere]

You moved to the wrong corner of the state. Up here in NoVA there are quite a few ranges... if you are into hand guns.

If you want to shoot rifles, outdoors, well, you're going to have to drive a while to find a range.

The state does have a number of nice public, free ranges, but they are not co-located with the population centers.

Sage-like wisdom my friend. Your right, I moved to the wrong spot it seems. It's just strange to me that within relative proximity to DC -- one of the toughest places to get a gun in the United States -- there's something like 6-8 ranges - some of them world class. But down here where there's relative ease to obtain a gun and a population that supports its ownership/rights, you have few range options. Does something seem backwards to anyone else?

[dorminWS]

Well, it's just my opinion, but I'd say that generally speaking there ain't really any overwhelming specifically anti-gun sentiment that's doing what you complain about. It's basically 3 things:

First, regulation. Zoning and land use laws as well as the "NIMBY" (Not In My Back Yard) syndrome. People tend to be afraid of stray bullets, careless shooters, lowered property values, or maybe just crowds and traffic, and just don't want to live near a range. There may also be some level of legitimate safety concern. So you get support for "zoning" and "land use" restrictions. When you reach a certain population density, you just can't find a place without such people.

Second, concerns over legal liability. This would be on the part of both folks who wanted to locate a range and perhaps also regulatory people whose approval may be needed. Our society today is so litigious and so preoccupied with making the Big Score with some kind of lawsuit so you can retire that everybody is 10 to 100 times more concerned about being sued than they were 20 years ago.

Third, the ever-lovin' invisible hand of the free market. As an area becomes more densely populated and developed, the price of real estate soars. Things that take a lot of land and generate only modest income simply get priced out of the market. It's a down side, in this case, of the free market most of us believe in. Buy the fleas, get the dog.

[mamabearCali]

This is why I am looking for at our next home at least 10 acres of woods.

[Reverenddel]

Agree with Christie.

I'm three years from being done with Suburban/Urban living... I would like to have some sembalance of being partiall OTG, using solar/wind/water for electricity, and pumping water off my own sources...

Not being a "disaster-sooth sayer", just saying I'm tired of paying for things that I could probably do myself.

[rynhere]

Well, it's just my opinion, but I'd say that generally speaking there ain't really any overwhelming specifically anti-gun sentiment that's doing what you complain about. It's basically 3 things:

First, regulation. Zoning and land use laws as well as the "NIMBY" (Not In My Back Yard) syndrome. People tend to be afraid of stray bullets, careless shooters, lowered property values, or maybe just crowds and traffic, and just don't want to live near a range. There may also be some level of legitimate safety concern. So you get support for "zoning" and "land use" restrictions. When you reach a certain population density, you just can't find a place without such people.

Second, concerns over legal liability. This would be on the part of both folks who wanted to locate a range and perhaps also regulatory people whose approval may be needed. Our society today is so litigious and so preoccupied with making the Big Score with some kind of lawsuit so you can retire that everybody is 10 to 100 times more concerned about being sued than they were 20 years ago.

Third, the ever-lovin' invisible hand of the free market. As an area becomes more densely populated and developed, the price of real estate soars. Things that take a lot of land and generate only modest income simply get priced out of the market. It's a down side, in this case, of the free market most of us believe in. Buy the fleas, get the dog.

You're likely more right then I am. There is one thing that perplexes me which flies in the face of your "NIMBY" argument however. As I pull out Google Maps and plot where the gun ranges are in the north end of the state, I see areas of high population density that have gun ranges in close proximity. Why would population density in the lower end of the state be any factor if it's not in the upper end of the state?

[jdonovan]

Many the ranges up NoVA way tend to be located in industrial areas, where somewhat noisy building occupancy are the norm.

We also have sufficient population density, and affluence here that most of these ranges are somewhat expensive ($20-$25+/hour) and ususaly 50-75% full, even mid-day. Most weekend times there is a bit of a wait.

The nearest public outdoor range in NoVA is in Warrenton, which is 60-90 min drive for the Virginia side of the DC metro area.

[dorminWS]

Many the ranges up NoVA way tend to be located in industrial areas, where somewhat noisy building occupancy are the norm.

We also have sufficient population density, and affluence here that most of these ranges are somewhat expensive ($20-$25+/hour) and ususaly 50-75% full, even mid-day. Most weekend times there is a bit of a wait.

The nearest public outdoor range in NoVA is in Warrenton, which is 60-90 min drive for the Virginia side of the DC metro area.

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Yes, and without knowing this, I would hazard a guess that many of those NoVa ranges have been there a while, and are "grandfathered" in on zoning/land use. I'd have to wonder whether they could get one started up today in tha same place..

[jdonovan]

Yes, and without knowing this, I would hazard a guess that many of those NoVa ranges have been there a while, and are "grandfathered" in on zoning/land use. I'd have to wonder whether they could get one started up today in tha same place..

Silver eagle is < 5 years old.