Viriginia is really a gun hating state - here's why

[rynhere]

All,

I don't know if this is really an op-ed rant or what, but I wanted to get something off my chest. I live in Chesterfield, southside of Richmond. I know that this is a traditionally gun friendly state, right? It was billed that way. I moved into this area from out west about 15 months ago. The area I came from is likewise gun friendly, so I thought that this would be a 6's experience.

However, in practical terms I wanted to point out that we've been duped. Virginia appears to have some of the most severe gun restrictions that exist anywhere in the country. I'm sure that there's some that will send me a friendly "you're an idiot" note on this point, but it's true. Not because VA's laws close the front door. They don't keep you from getting a gun. Oh yes, you can easily buy one and easily find ammunition. Gander Mountain, Bass Pro, several specialty gun stores will all sell you everything that you need. BUT, and this is where the gun control comes into play. THERE'S NO WHERE TO SHOOT IT!!!!....and if there's no place that I can easily shot the darn thing - that's gun control in my book.

Some will say, "Hey wait now, there's Dominion range in Midlothian". That cruddy little basement should be condemned. Half the lane target hangers don't even work, are you kidding me? I feel like I should get tested for lead poisoning every time I've been in there. That's the only place that's available?! How did this happen?! How did we all let county and city ordinances come up that would prevent the building of ranges? There's a scant few private ranges that will charge you an arm and a leg, require you to put in more hours of community service then most criminals and then wait for 3 months to 3 years to get in. Insane!

Where's the uproar on this? Why hasn't anyone developed a 100 yd range in the local area in the last 30 years? Why haven't we elected leaders that would help us with this? I can't believe it.

Does anyone agree? Should we be pushing for ordinance changes and grant variants to allow for the building of more ranges in this state? The shooting sport is suffering guys and gals and I just wanted to point out that I appear to be the only one who sees it - and that scares me. Anyone with me?

[ProShooter]

Are you aware that there is The Smoking Gun in Colonial Heights, the Range in Fredericksburg, and in February, the Colonial Shooting Academy will open the largest indoor range on the East Coast (if not the U.S) in Henrico County?

Oh, and I forgot the Fort Lee POW range....

[rynhere]

I'll grant you the Colonial Heights one. Only 7 lanes, but its never full and it's pretty nice. One point for you.

Fort Lee POW - You just included a range that's open 6 hours a week as your point that we have viable options. No score there.

Colonial - Um. Its not open. Soooo how does that help me? I challenge! (football season is coming up, I'm getting ready). I've got to take a point away from you on that one. A range that's not open isn't an option.

Fredericksburg. I don't know about you, but I live 1+ hour away from that -- and I have a life. Kinda keeps me busy. Can't see blowing nearly 3 hours round trip before I even put a round downrange. If you live up there, then you have a suitable number of public options that we should have here in the central part of the state. You have NOVA, NRA, Blue Ridge and Quantico all within 30 minutes of each other. No score there either.

We're still at net zero, cause I had to take one away from ya with that one that's not open yet.

[clayinva]

Certainly no public ranges north of the river. Although I belong to Black Creek, it will be nice to have someplace to go in bad weather. From the prices I have seen projected for Colonial ($20 an hour, and I think a $100 annual fee) it definitely won't be cheap, especially if they charge the kinds of ammo prices I have seen at Dominion. Maybe Dominion will spiff themselves up a bit if they have serious competition.

[Kreutz]

All,
Does anyone agree? Should we be pushing for ordinance changes and grant variants to allow for the building of more ranges in this state? The shooting sport is suffering guys and gals and I just wanted to point out that I appear to be the only one who sees it - and that scares me. Anyone with me?

I strongly disagree. I moved here from New York....metropolitan New York. No, you know nothing of gun hating states.

Virginia is under no obligation to "provide" places to shoot. Nor is this some conspiracy. If there is enough of a need, someone (or even you!) can or will open and operate a range.

[Jakeiscrazy]

Certainly no public ranges north of the river. Although I belong to Black Creek, it will be nice to have someplace to go in bad weather. From the prices I have seen projected for Colonial ($20 an hour, and I think a $100 annual fee) it definitely won't be cheap, especially if they charge the kinds of ammo prices I have seen at Dominion. Maybe Dominion will spiff themselves up a bit if they have serious competition.

+1 to that last half! BTW what's Black Creek cost a year and can you bring visitors or is that a no no? Are the facilities good? What distances?

[m4a1mustang]

All,
Does anyone agree? Should we be pushing for ordinance changes and grant variants to allow for the building of more ranges in this state? The shooting sport is suffering guys and gals and I just wanted to point out that I appear to be the only one who sees it - and that scares me. Anyone with me?

I strongly disagree. I moved here from New York....metropolitan New York. No, you know nothing of gun hating states.

Virginia is under no obligation to "provide" places to shoot. Nor is this some conspiracy. If there is enough of a need, someone (or even you!) can or will open and operate a range.

I agree.

If there is enough demand for a range in a certain area, one would likely be built.

[ProShooter]

I'll grant you the Colonial Heights one. Only 7 lanes, but its never full and it's pretty nice. One point for you.

Fort Lee POW - You just included a range that's open 6 hours a week as your point that we have viable options. No score there.

Colonial - Um. Its not open. Soooo how does that help me? I challenge! (football season is coming up, I'm getting ready). I've got to take a point away from you on that one. A range that's not open isn't an option.

Fredericksburg. I don't know about you, but I live 1+ hour away from that -- and I have a life. Kinda keeps me busy. Can't see blowing nearly 3 hours round trip before I even put a round downrange. If you live up there, then you have a suitable number of public options that we should have here in the central part of the state. You have NOVA, NRA, Blue Ridge and Quantico all within 30 minutes of each other. No score there either.

We're still at net zero, cause I had to take one away from ya with that one that's not open yet.

Wow....I think most people would have just said "Thanks for the suggestions", and left it at that.

[gunderwood]

All,
Does anyone agree? Should we be pushing for ordinance changes and grant variants to allow for the building of more ranges in this state? The shooting sport is suffering guys and gals and I just wanted to point out that I appear to be the only one who sees it - and that scares me. Anyone with me?

I strongly disagree. I moved here from New York....metropolitan New York. No, you know nothing of gun hating states.

Virginia is under no obligation to "provide" places to shoot. Nor is this some conspiracy. If there is enough of a need, someone (or even you!) can or will open and operate a range.

Normally I would agree, but if you've ever looked at what it takes to open a range you'll change your mind. Many of the localities purposefully make it near impossible to setup a new range. Good luck getting permits, etc.

[zombiekiller57]

I agree on the Range side. The regulations are tuff and the ranges are few but as far as gun rights go Virginia is not half bad, and it keeps getting better. Now we work on the regulation, Or go but 10 acres in the country

[seeknulfind]

When I comes to range shooting, I know next to nothing. The last time I did much shooting was when I lived in Western New York where just about every township has a private Rod and Gun club. They all had ranges. Not many were set up for pistol ranges that I remember - NY is VERY unfriendly concerning handguns - you had (have) to have a permit to OWN one. I don't think they were hard to get in my county but I never went through the hassle.

Back on the range - the Rod and Gun clubs were cheap to join. A friend of mine, nearly as frugal as I am and not any wealthier, belonged to at least 3 that I know of. Funny thing, we'd go the the range to shoot together and we were often the only ones there.

So please, keep my own limited experience in mind as I comment here.

From what I've read, it seems a range master is often desired, if not required. For a busy range, I'd think this may be a good idea. But people cost money. So this would add significantly to the cost of any range.

Now about those regulations...

I don't know what they are but may I propose that no matter what they are we should not only be aware of them (and I'm sure some here are) but also be committed to working towards making it as easy as possible for someone to start, own and operate a good, safe range. I think this should be well within the interest of all citizens. Here's why:

We all know it's important to be comfortable and familiar with our weapons of choice. Few things are more dangerous than something that is easy to operate and easy to mishandle - an automobile, for example. BTW, IMO, automobiles are a much greater danger to society than firearms.

So how can responsible citizens become comfortable and familiar with firearms? It's a no-brainer - shooting. Thus to that end, ranges should be encouraged if not downright demanded by a sane society.

Two ways this can be accomplished is by requiring localities to provide safe ranges to practice or by easing up on regulations, paving the way for a proliferation of private ranges.

A third way would be to go the private Rod and Gun club route. This would've been easier to accomplish 50 years ago when property was more affordable.

Andy

[rynhere]

All,
Does anyone agree? Should we be pushing for ordinance changes and grant variants to allow for the building of more ranges in this state? The shooting sport is suffering guys and gals and I just wanted to point out that I appear to be the only one who sees it - and that scares me. Anyone with me?

I strongly disagree. I moved here from New York....metropolitan New York. No, you know nothing of gun hating states.

Virginia is under no obligation to "provide" places to shoot. Nor is this some conspiracy. If there is enough of a need, someone (or even you!) can or will open and operate a range.

Kreutz,

First, I get that there are states that close the front door (New York, California, etc) -- which I defined in my original post as making it tough to even get a gun / ammo. Your right, Virignia isn't that. However, and I'll use you as an example - your profile indicates that you have a 30.06. If you have no where that you can shoot it, what'd you buy it for? To sit on a shelf and let the gun oil dry out?

State of Virginia isn't obligated to build a range. Your right. I'm not asking our tax dollars to go to such an effort, but just as you point out that this state is supposed to be "gun friendly", why are city and county ordinances so restrictive to making new ranges? Effectively, these ordinances are a form of gun control in their own right -- if you can't use the weapon, you basically bought a $1000 walking stick.

Perhaps I'm making an assumption here. Do you know what the process is to get approval for a gun range in Virginia? Let me map it out for you, because I have tried. First, you have ATF documents that you have to submit and the usual background checks for FFL. No biggie there. Next, you have to find land that is zoned Commerical, UC-3. Good luck. Then, you have to get special land-use permits part 300, part 700 and the entire 008 series. Then you have wait for Department of Planning and Development Review
Land Use Administration Division to vote on your variance. Guess what the review board vote is going to be?

There is a problem here. This isn't an issue of no one wants one so that's why they haven't built a new one in 30 years. This is an issue that local government here in Virginia has discovered that they can effectively squash the use of guns if there is no place to shoot them. So that leaves us with the scant few ranges that it takes an hour to get to, 1-2 year waiting lists to get on, $500 initiation fees to pay, or suffer along with the table scraps of ranges that are open 6 hours a week or completely falling apart.....and this doesn't concern you one bit eh? Ok, agree to disagree.

[Kreutz]

First, I get that there are states that close the front door (New York, California, etc) -- which I defined in my original post as making it tough to even get a gun / ammo. Your right, Virignia isn't that. However, and I'll use you as an example - your profile indicates that you have a 30.06. If you have no where that you can shoot it, what'd you buy it for? To sit on a shelf and let the gun oil dry out?

Yes, thats exactly what it does. Then again, I have no desire to shoot it either. I bought in while I lived in NY and it was very cheap, I've fired it there (Brookhaven town rifle range) but never here.

State of Virginia isn't obligated to build a range. Your right. I'm not asking our tax dollars to go to such an effort, but just as you point out that this state is supposed to be "gun friendly", why are city and county ordinances so restrictive to making new ranges? Effectively, these ordinances are a form of gun control in their own right -- if you can't use the weapon, you basically bought a $1000 walking stick.

Ordinances and zoning laws can be changed. County legislators will generally do what their constituents want them to do. Again, if theres a big enough demand, it can get satisfied.

Perhaps I'm making an assumption here. Do you know what the process is to get approval for a gun range in Virginia?

I do not.

Next, you have to find land that is zoned Commerical, UC-3. Good luck. Then, you have to get special land-use permits part 300, part 700 and the entire 008 series. Then you have wait for Department of Planning and Development Review
Land Use Administration Division to vote on your variance. Guess what the review board vote is going to be?

Wouldn't developing any commercial structure have similar burdens?

There is a problem here. This isn't an issue of no one wants one so that's why they haven't built a new one in 30 years. This is an issue that local government here in Virginia has discovered that they can effectively squash the use of guns if there is no place to shoot them. So that leaves us with the scant few ranges that it takes an hour to get to, 1-2 year waiting lists to get on, $500 initiation fees to pay, or suffer along with the table scraps of ranges that are open 6 hours a week or completely falling apart.....and this doesn't concern you one bit eh? Ok, agree to disagree.

Perhaps you should have done due diligence and researched the area you moved to before you got there? That way you could be closer to a public or affordable private range?

This is obviously a very important issue for you, so I can't help but think you should have looked into it before moving.

[rynhere]

Next, you have to find land that is zoned Commerical, UC-3. Good luck. Then, you have to get special land-use permits part 300, part 700 and the entire 008 series. Then you have wait for Department of Planning and Development Review Land Use Administration Division to vote on your variance. Guess what the review board vote is going to be?

Wouldn't developing any commercial structure have similar burdens?

Answer, "no".

[Yarddawg]

it seems to me that the issue lies primarily with the local gubmint, not the state level from your arguments.

[nothalfbad]

I have to say that I felt the same way as rynhere when I first moved into NOVA from Oklahoma 16 years ago. Compared to OK there aren't many places to shoot in VA, and the ones closest to me are costly and usually crowded.

I don't think it's a conscious effort to set up laws to stop people from target shooting; I think it's more the overall higher cost of living in the east coast and the higher population density. The end effect is the same. I don't shoot nearly as often as I did in OK.

It's all comparative. I worked in Rockville MD for several years and the laws in Montgomery county make NOVA look good. It took Gilbert Gun Range about 3 years to get set up in Rockville, and then you had to buy your ammo there by county ordinance. That doesn't make the situation in NOVA any better but it does give context.

[gunderwood]

it seems to me that the issue lies primarily with the local gubmint, not the state level from your arguments.

Yes, VCDL has been fighting the various localities who have tried to enact such restrictions. It's not really general zoning either, it's specific regulations and restrictions on gun ranges which are all but impossible to meet.

[gunderwood]

Here's a recent example from Sussex County (thanks VCDL 7/12):

Here are some of the more egregious requirements on ranges that are still in the proposed ordinance. As I've said before, it would be easier to open nuclear power plant in Sussex:

* Anytime the range is being used there shall be a CPR specialist present (!!!!!!!) This is enough to give a range owner a heart attack! Uh-oh - is there a CPR specialist in the House?

* A fully stocked industrial grade first aid kit shall be maintained on site (unfunded mandate)

* A minimum liability insurance policy of $100,000 per individual and $500,000 for each occurrence (another unfunded mandate)

* A zoning permit will be required before operating a range and a bunch of stuff required to apply for that permit (bureaucratic red tape to run up expenses and time)

* The range must be designed and constructed by a licensed civil engineer (sounds like someone on the Planning Commission has a relative who is a civil engineer) and various plans and documentation to be filed with the Planning Department (another unfunded mandate and lots of bureaucratic red tape)

* Signs every 100 feet of the range's boundary with the words "Firing Range" and "Do Not Enter" on each sign. I like the wording "Another stupid idea brought to you by the Sussex Board of Supervisors" much better

* The range must be at least 500 feet from the highway AND any property line (unnecessary limits on where a range can be placed)

* Any buildings on that range must be at least 300 feet from any highway right-of-way and any property line

[Jakeiscrazy]

* The range must be designed and constructed by a licensed civil engineer (sounds like someone on the Planning Commission has a relative who is a civil engineer) and various plans and documentation to be filed with the Planning Department (another unfunded mandate and lots of bureaucratic red tape)

This one is my favorite! As if no one else is smart enough to design and build range!

[SHMIV]

A previous poster opined that the state has no obligation to set up firing ranges. I agree that the obligation does not exist. However, I still feel that it is worthwhile to petition for public ranges in state parks. The land exists on each park, and a range does not run contrary the mission statement of the state park system.

Further, there exists public libraries, public swimming pools, public tennis courts, workout facilities, etc., etc. Why not a public firing range?