I just shot myself video

[Chasbo00]

I suspect most have seen this video by now. It has been on nearly every gun related board and blog. But, I suspect few have seen the second (previously done) video by the same fellow addressing SERPA holsters and their potential leading to shooting yourself in the leg. In my view, this guy has no business making and distributing videos about using firearms. Unfortunately, there is nothing to alert inexperienced shooters to incompetents like this. These guys are out there and there are more than a few of them.

Language caution: Has some strong language in first video

[zephyp]

From watching the regular speed and slo mo and hearing his explanation of what happened the two do not jive. If what he says is true and he disengaged the safety with the first hit of his thumb he still had to re-engage the thumb release on the holster, draw, and fire...he should have noticed something was amiss when he felt the click and the gun didnt move...my assessment...the guy is a moron. Too bad he didnt hit a little farther left so he cant make little morons...

[Jamie]

Nah, it was the Serpa that he was using when he shot himself. He hit the safety with his thumb when he went to disengage the thumb drive (which he didn't have) and then hit the trigger with his index after hitting the Serpa's release.

This video worries me. I've got better than average training, but it's dated and I've never had to draw in a real self-defense situation. And I don't even use an external safety.

So now I'm wondering if I should skip the Serpa for fear that I'll do the same thing when amped up.

[Chasbo00]

This video worries me. I've got better than average training, but it's dated and I've never had to draw in a real self-defense situation. And I don't even use an external safety.

So now I'm wondering if I should skip the Serpa for fear that I'll do the same thing when amped up.

There is an old one-liner that I like; "Armatures train until they get it right; professionals train until they can't get it wrong". The SERPA holster needs the latter approach.

I think there are better and safer retention holsters choices than the SERPA. In addition to the potential safety issue with the trigger finger, the SERPA mechanism is subject to becoming jammed with snow, mud or debris, and then rather effectively locking your pistol in the holster.

[ProShooter]

"After I shot myself, my training took over"

Really, you trained yourself to say "I just f*** shot myself!" ????

[allingeneral]

"After I shot myself, my training took over"

Really, you trained yourself to say "I just f*** shot myself!" ????

LOL Nice one Jim

[southpaw02]

From watching the regular speed and slo mo and hearing his explanation of what happened the two do not jive. If what he says is true and he disengaged the safety with the first hit of his thumb he still had to re-engage the thumb release on the holster, draw, and fire...he should have noticed something was amiss when he felt the click and the gun didnt move...my assessment...the guy is a moron. Too bad he didnt hit a little farther left so he cant make little morons...

I couldn't agree more!

[Jakeiscrazy]

The problem isn't the Serpa. If you disengage lock, even if you continue to press as you draw your finger ends up on the frame of the gun just like a draw with any holster is taught. The button is NOT over the trigger or trigger guard. If you can't keep your finger straight as your drawing you have not business using any holster. To Tex's credit he didn't blame the holster(although many have for him).

(Skip to 1:50 to see what I am talking about.)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5EMk3PLb3A

[grumpyMSG]

There is an old one-liner that I like; "Armatures train until they get it right; professionals train until they can't get it wrong". The SERPA holster needs the latter approach.

I think there are better and safer retention holsters choices than the SERPA. In addition to the potential safety issue with the trigger finger, the SERPA mechanism is subject to becoming jammed with snow, mud or debris, and then rather effectively locking your pistol in the holster.

I hope you train and shoot better than you spell, unless I am the mistaken and you are an electric motor part.

As for the Serpa, he didn't blame the holster, he blamed himself and using several different pistols and holsters with different retention releases. All holsters are capable of having problems with dirt and mud. If you go crawling around in the mud and pack it up in the hood of a Safariland, it won't unlatch either. There is no perfect holster design. That said I never saw or heard of issues from the folks in my unit who carried a Serpa in Iraq other than they grew to hate drop-legs pulling their pants down pretty quickly, but that was all drop-legs, not just the Serpas or Safarilands.

[Chasbo00]

There is an old one-liner that I like; "Armatures train until they get it right; professionals train until they can't get it wrong". The SERPA holster needs the latter approach.

I think there are better and safer retention holsters choices than the SERPA. In addition to the potential safety issue with the trigger finger, the SERPA mechanism is subject to becoming jammed with snow, mud or debris, and then rather effectively locking your pistol in the holster.

I hope you train and shoot better than you spell, unless I am the mistaken and you are an electric motor part.

I obviously need to train better with the spell checker.

As for the Serpa, he didn't blame the holster, he blamed himself and using several different pistols and holsters with different retention releases.

If you shoot yourself in the leg during a draw, you're incompetent. But I suspect he would not have done so had he been using a holster other than a SERPA.

Larry Vickers no longer allows SERPA holsters in his classes and he is not alone here. SERPA holsters are banned by some trainers and schools, for example Gunsite, and they are discouraged by others. Some trainers and schools don't care. If I were responsible for training lots of folks, I would discourage their use and I would consider prohibiting them.

All holsters are capable of having problems with dirt and mud. If you go crawling around in the mud and pack it up in the hood of a Safariland, it won't unlatch either. There is no perfect holster design.

True, but I think the Safariland holsters are much less likely to jam and severely trap the pistol.

[Reverenddel]

Um...Doesn't matter what training, what holster.

You shoot yourself. You lose. Period. End of Game, Toys taken away.

God loves idiots, hence why they breed so often.

[Jakeiscrazy]

If you shoot yourself in the leg during a draw, you're incompetent. But I suspect he would not have done so had he been using a holster other than a SERPA.

Why?

[Chasbo00]

The SERPA requires that you press your index finger towards the gun to release it from the holster. If you keep your finger extended, no problem and your finger will end up above the trigger guard and along the frame. But, if you curl your finger and activate the SERPA release with your finger tip while you are struggling to get the gun out of the holster and a get a shot of very quickly, you run the risk of having your finger slip into the trigger guard and onto the trigger prematurely.

Most retention holsters have a thumb-activated release. Many consider the SERPA a poor design because the release is located just millimeters from the trigger and requires use of the trigger finger to activate. It facilitates a speedy draw when activated correctly with an extended finger; but, curl your finger and use your finger tip to press the release and you may have a problem.

[Pumbaa]

Give me good leather with a thumb snap....

[Jakeiscrazy]

The SERPA requires that you press your index finger towards the gun to release it from the holster. If you keep your finger extended, no problem and your finger will end up above the trigger guard and along the frame. But, if you curl your finger and activate the SERPA release with your finger tip while you are struggling to get the gun out of the holster and a get a shot of very quickly, you run the risk of having your finger slip into the trigger guard and onto the trigger prematurely.

Most retention holsters have a thumb-activated release. Many consider the SERPA a poor design because the release is located just millimeters from the trigger and requires use of the trigger finger to activate. It facilitates a speedy draw when activated correctly with an extended finger; but, curl your finger and use your finger tip to press the release and you may have a problem.

So you just admit the problem is the the shooter and not the holster. Even in the SERPA if you curl your finger it just ends up curled against the frame not in the trigger guard.

[WRW]

The SERPA requires that you press your index finger towards the gun to release it from the holster. If you keep your finger extended, no problem and your finger will end up above the trigger guard and along the frame. But, if you curl your finger and activate the SERPA release with your finger tip while you are struggling to get the gun out of the holster and a get a shot of very quickly, you run the risk of having your finger slip into the trigger guard and onto the trigger prematurely.

Most retention holsters have a thumb-activated release. Many consider the SERPA a poor design because the release is located just millimeters from the trigger and requires use of the trigger finger to activate. It facilitates a speedy draw when activated correctly with an extended finger; but, curl your finger and use your finger tip to press the release and you may have a problem.

So you just admit the problem is the the shooter and not the holster. Even in the SERPA if you curl your finger it just ends up curled against the frame not in the trigger guard.

As well, why would someone curl their finger to activate the release when that only makes it harder to accurately find said release without looking down at the holster?

[Chasbo00]

So you just admit the problem is the the shooter and not the holster. Even in the SERPA if you curl your finger it just ends up curled against the frame not in the trigger guard.

I disagree. Recall that he incorrectly tried to activate the holster release first with his thumb. This did not work plus it took his gun's manual safety from on to off. He then finds himself struggling to get the gun free. It's no longer a smooth draw and his finger ends up in the trigger guard and not on the frame and he now has a light single-action trigger with the safety off. Bang!

If you shoot yourself, it's your problem. Neither the gun or the holster shot him. But, the SERPA's design and trigger-finger operated release helped to set him up for the event. Like most accidents, there is seldom just one specific cause factor. In this case, the accident probably could have been prevented by:

- Not practicing with thumb-activated holster before using the SERPA for a quick-draw drill
- Not using a SERPA holster for a quick-draw after practicing with a thumb-break holster
- Following his own advice (see second video) that speaks to the potential of shooting yourself in the leg with a SERPA holster unless very well trained - obviously he was not that well trained in using a SERPA.
- Using only retention holsters that have thumb activated releases.

[Chasbo00]

As well, why would someone curl their finger to activate the release when that only makes it harder to accurately find said release without looking down at the holster?

Curling your finger can result from inadequate training with the SERPA - it's a natural tendency most of us have when activating a press type release. Most likely, it's a subconscious act that occurs when one is highly stressed and/or having difficulty activating the SERPA's release while trying to draw and fire very quickly.

[Jakeiscrazy]

So you just admit the problem is the the shooter and not the holster. Even in the SERPA if you curl your finger it just ends up curled against the frame not in the trigger guard.

I disagree. Recall that he incorrectly tried to activate the holster release first with his thumb. This did not work plus it took his gun's manual safety from on to off. He then finds himself struggling to get the gun free. It's no longer a smooth draw and his finger ends up in the trigger guard and not on the frame and he now has a light single-action trigger with the safety off. Bang!

If you shoot yourself, it's your problem. Neither the gun or the holster shot him. But, the SERPA's design and trigger-finger operated release helped to set him up for the event. Like most accidents, there is seldom just one specific cause factor. In this case, the accident probably could have been prevented by:

- Not practicing with thumb-activated holster before using the SERPA for a quick-draw drill
- Not using a SERPA holster for a quick-draw after practicing with a thumb-break holster
- Following his own advice (see second video) that speaks to the potential of shooting yourself in the leg with a SERPA holster unless very well trained - obviously he was not that well trained in using a SERPA.
- Using only retention holsters that have thumb activated releases.

If you look at the finger he did not curl his finger he just put it on the trigger as soon as he drew. He did bobble drawing and I guess that stressed him out, he rushed and made a mistake. They can happen with every holster. If anything the SERPA reinforces a constant draw with your finger on the frame just as it is designed.

[Chasbo00]

If anything the SERPA reinforces a constant draw with your finger on the frame just as it is designed.

Guess you and I will just have to disagree on this Jake.