Landlords banning firearms?

[seanc]

ALL,

Once again I find myself in a position to consult the guru's and need some general advice on a rental I currently live in. Specifically, I'm reviewing a VIRGINIA house rental agreement and notice this clause, pertaining to firearms:

The Tenant will not keep or use in or on the premises any explosives, flammable or combustible
materials, firearms or ammunition. A fire extinguisher is provided at the start of tenancy. The
Tenant is responsible for maintaining it and replacing it if needed.

The situation: I already live here, I did't sign the lease before, moving out is not really an option, the house is not safe as is (cheap easy to break windows, easy access basement, no security system, roomates are frequently out of town).

So here are my questions:

1. Is this legal?
2. Is this legally binding?
3. What are the legal ramifications for signing and disregarding?
4. Would you engage the landlord or say nothing?

Thank you all for the feedback,

SC

[Pumbaa]

Personally, I wouldn't live in an apartment complex which was known for disarmed residents.

Seems like a criminal magnet.

I bet the tenant agreement says no pets, no smoking, no illicit drugs, and no more than one parking spot per tenant may be used long term.

How much you want to bet ll of these will be broken and none of them real world enforceable?

Screw'm... how will they find out? What's the worst they can do? Evict you.. Let them go through the process which takes a while. Hold back the rent and make their life miserable, then just before the final court date pay them.

If you are not asked directly then do not tell.

You should tell them the following...
As a service to your tenants, you should put a big sign on the front of the building with lettering easily read from the street proclaiming that the unit is unarmed. If you don't feel comfortable doing that, you should rethink your position. You might also do that for your house.

[Pumbaa]

I have been research and in another forum, someone brought up this VA law. So what is public housing vs private housing and where does an apt complex fall?

§ 55-248.9. Prohibited provisions in rental agreements.

A. A rental agreement shall not contain provisions that the tenant:

1. Agrees to waive or forego rights or remedies under this chapter;

2. Agrees to waive or forego rights or remedies pertaining to the 120-day conversion or rehabilitation notice required in the Condominium Act (§ 55-79.39 et seq.), the Virginia Real Estate Cooperative Act (§ 55-424 et seq.) or Chapter 13 (§ 55-217 et seq.) of this title;

3. Authorizes any person to confess judgment on a claim arising out of the rental agreement;

4. Agrees to pay the landlord's attorney's fees except as provided in this chapter;

5. Agrees to the exculpation or limitation of any liability of the landlord to the tenant arising under law or to indemnify the landlord for that liability or the costs connected therewith;

6. Agrees as a condition of tenancy in public housing to a prohibition or restriction of any lawful possession of a firearm within individual dwelling units unless required by federal law or regulation; or

7. Agrees to both the payment of a security deposit and the provision of a bond or commercial insurance policy purchased by the tenant to secure the performance of the terms and conditions of a rental agreement, if the total of the security deposit and the bond or insurance premium exceeds the amount of two months' periodic rent.

B. A provision prohibited by subsection A included in a rental agreement is unenforceable. If a landlord brings an action to enforce any of the prohibited provisions, the tenant may recover actual damages sustained by him and reasonable attorney's fees.

(1974, c. 680; 1977, c. 427; 1987, c. 473; 1991, c. 720; 2000, c. 760; 2002, c. 531; 2003, c. 905.)

[jdonovan]

1. Is this legal?

I believe so.

2. Is this legally binding?

If you are signing a lease, yes then you are bound to the contracts terms and conditions.

3. What are the legal ramifications for signing and disregarding?

You could be held in material breach of lease, see the lease for the terms/conditions of breaching the contract. It is usually unpleasant.
Generally you can be evicted for violation of the lease terms, usually 100% the rent for the full period becomes immediately due, and you're responsible for the landlords legal costs.

4. Would you engage the landlord or say nothing?

If its a small landlord, you might get them to negotiate a specific change. i.e not more than 2 firearms, they will be kept in a locked safe etc....

If this is Acme rentals of Northern Virgina, with 200 properties.... not a frickin chance they will change their contract to suit you.

So what is public housing vs private housing and where does an apt complex fall?

If the government isn't paying your rent, or subsidizing the housing to you at below market cost then its not public housing.

What the gov't can restrict is different than what private rental agreements can enforce. A private lease assumes that you have the freedom not to rent from persons making unreasonable demands. A public housing tenant, by definition is assumed to have no choice in their housing situation and therefore must accept the terms, conditions and locations put forth by the government. That lack of bargaining power restricts what conditions may be part of the rental agreement.

Another question:

I already live here, I did't sign the lease before, moving out is not really an option

So are you an under the table sub-let not approved by the landlord?

moving out is not really an option

Are you nailed to the floor? Compelled by court order not to move? More of a PITA than you want to deal with? If there is some duress situation it can change the legal situation concerning the lease.

[Pumbaa]

Since you are already there cross out the provision and sign it. See what the Landlord says then...

[seanc]

@ jdonovan et all,

Breach of the lease "may" result in our eviction and covering of costs related to attorney fees and rent due. I think I would be willing to fight that, being that I would not consider violating one provision as "material."

I took over someones lease but I didn't sign any paperwork. Never would unless until the renewal issue just came up. As to moving out, the rent is SO cheap and the location is just right, its just not be financially smart right now.

Thank you all for the feed back. Anyone have any more definitive legal answers?

[zephyp]

Denying second amendment rights are expressly forbidden in VA code for public housing only...public housing = gubment subsidized...apartment complexes where regular folk live are private property and the owners may restrict you at will.

A caution though if you choose to ignore it, the landlord has expressed permission to enter your residence for inspections and repairs even when you arent home...

[jdonovan]

Breach of the lease "may" result in our eviction and covering of costs related to attorney fees and rent due. I think I would be willing to fight that, being that I would not consider violating one provision as "material."

Having seen friends go through tenant/landlord disputes, I'd suggest you get professional legal advice regarding material breach of contract.

I took over someones lease but I didn't sign any paperwork. Never would unless until the renewal issue just came up.

It would be unusual if the lease was silent with regard to sublets and a proper procedure for subletting. You may already be on shaky ground as you are not on the lease.

Anyone have any more definitive legal answers?

Now with the recent heller decisions, that the 2nd is a fundamental right, it would be interesting to see a test case like this make its way through the courts.... not suggesting that you be that test case. I don't believe you can via contract sign away a fundamental right in its entirety.

I think any more official answers will have to come from someone with a JD, who is willing to stand next to you, in front of a judge if need be. Armchair advice is a good place to begin, but rarely a good place to stop.

It might be worth a $100 consult to know what the law says on this. We all can read the State code, but don't have ready access to the case law, which is often much better at clearly defining the bounds, and conditions of the statutory law.

[seanc]

Jd et all,

The advice here has been very comforting, even if the response I was hoping for never came.

If there is anyone out there that can recommend a good JD to speak to, I am all in.

Again, thank you.

[jdonovan]

http://www.virginialegaldefense.com/

[Tweaker]

OP, it sounds like you have come to the conclusion that your best course of action is inaction. I would agree with you, given the facts as you stated them. Best advice here, given that was by DK to run silent and run deep and keep them under lock and key.

The current housing market is very much in favor of the owner and not the tenant at this time. I agree with JDonovan, that you are unlikely to get any relief.

Save your sheckels and keep your powder dry for the next time, when you actually sign the lease.

Up side, is that since you are not on the lease, if push comes to shove, you can pack your crzap into your Plymouth Super Bird and go live down by the river. You have no financial obligation. Your mates, however, may get the brown end of the stick tho!

[Reverenddel]

If ever there was a DADT moment, it's right there...

If I saw that in the lease of an apartment I was about ready to rent? I would definitely point it out, and ask if it can be removed. What's the harm in a request?