Opinions Sig P238

[Jakeiscrazy]

Anyone have experience or opinions on the Sig P238? I have a friend that is asking about about it as a possible summer pocket gun.

[gunderwood]

It seems like a decent little gun, but I don't own one. My only real complaint with the design (it basically is a Colt mustang) is the whole safety bit. IMHO, a pocket pistol should have a heavy DAO trigger pull with no safety. Even with a holster that safety is likely to disengage in your pocket IMHO.

[Reverenddel]

It actually IS the COLT MUSTANG... Sig bought the patent when Colt in their "infinite wisdom" decided to get out of the pocket pistol business.

I have carried the Colt Mustang in Condition 2 for years. In an uncle mike inside the pant holster no less.

I have enjoyed the pistol very much.

[dorminWS]

My SIG P238 is a great little gun, and amazingly accurate for such a small pistol. In spite of the short barrel and short grips (I can pretty well cover it with the palm of my hand) it shoots right where you point it. 6 fast shots into a 4" circle at 40 yards with no sweat.

[gunderwood]

My SIG P238 is a great little gun, and amazingly accurate for such a small pistol. In spite of the short barrel and short grips (I can pretty well cover it with the palm of my hand) it shoots right where you point it. 6 fast shots into a 4" circle at 40 yards with no sweat.

Yards? I'm going to call BS without proof of that one! Unless you meant feet, that I could possibly see with some practice.

[dorminWS]

I meant yards. It shoots like it has a 6"barrel.

[Chasbo00]

I have to agree with gunderwood. A 4" group at 40 yards with a SIG 238 is something I would have to see, especially if shot quickly. Of course quickly is relative. Quickly to me means 6 shots in less than 2 seconds, and .33 seconds between shots at the same target is actually slow by some competition shooters' standards.

I would be thrilled If I could consistently and quickly shoot four-inch groups at 25 yards with my 5" barreled competition gun.

[Reverenddel]

One thing I would suggest?

A extended magazine... makes it 7+1. gives a pinkie rest, and it stablizes the gun VERY well. As to the accuracy? I cannot speak to 40 yards. I know that in a gun range at 7 yards, and can hit the "target pictures" gun hand, his elbow, his shoulder, two in the heart, and both eyes...

Of course... he's just standing there taking it...

[gunderwood]

I meant yards. It shoots like it has a 6"barrel.

I have to agree with gunderwood. A 4" group at 40 yards with a SIG 238 is something I would have to see, especially if shot quickly. Of course quickly is relative. Quickly to me means 6 shots in less than 2 seconds, and .33 seconds between shots at the same target is actually slow by some competition shooters' standards.

I would be thrilled If I could consistently and quickly shoot four-inch groups at 25 yards with my 5" barreled competition gun.

Forget the speed and the short sight radius and the relatively poor sights (which is true of pocket pistols in general). Consistently holding a 4" group would win you most NRA Bullseye matches! The 10 ring is 3.3" and they shoot 25/50 yards.

The slow-fire course gives shooters fits. It places more stress on shooter and gun than the other two courses and is often the deciding factor in a match. At 50 yards the l0-ring-only 3.3 inches in diameter-seems minuscule. Inside of the 3.3-inch l0-ring is a 1.7-inch X-ring used to break ties. The mental fortitude required to concentrate on the sight and trigger squeeze while at the same time holding the gun steady with one hand is substantial.

http://www.bullseyepistol.com/getinto.htm

A 4" group would be like shooting nothing but 9s and 10s on a bullseye course...with a pocket pistol! With a shooter/gun like that you could do very well at Camp Perry! In fact, since the bullseye is 3.3" and you're claiming 4" group, it's fair to say at least 75% of your shots would be 10s...which means you would have been the 2010 National Champion! Congrats.

[Chasbo00]

I would be thrilled If I could consistently and quickly shoot four-inch groups at 25 yards with my 5" barreled competition gun.

Forget the speed and the short sight radius and the relatively poor sights (which is true of pocket pistols in general). Consistently holding a 4" group would win you most NRA Bullseye matches! The 10 ring is 3.3" and they shoot 25/50 yards.

At major bullseye matches, multiple competitors often clean (all 10s) timed and/or rapid fire which is done at 25 yards. Rapid fire timing in bullseye competition is a maximum of 2 seconds per shot. This is really, really slow compared to action pistol timing. But, the action pistol equivalent of the bullseye 10 ring is 8" (IDPA target), and the vast majority of targets in most action pistol shooting are at distances of 15 yards and closer. IDPA's maximum allowable target distance is 35 yards.

A 4" group would be like shooting nothing but 9s and 10s on a bullseye course...with a pocket pistol! With a shooter/gun like that you could do very well at Camp Perry! In fact, since the bullseye is 3.3" and you're claiming 4" group, it's fair to say at least 75% of your shots would be 10s...which means you would have been the 2010 National Champion! Congrats.

75% would not be enough. The 2010 National Champion's winning score was 2650 with 134x; hence, at least 81.5% of his shots had to be 10s.

[gunderwood]

I would be thrilled If I could consistently and quickly shoot four-inch groups at 25 yards with my 5" barreled competition gun.

Forget the speed and the short sight radius and the relatively poor sights (which is true of pocket pistols in general). Consistently holding a 4" group would win you most NRA Bullseye matches! The 10 ring is 3.3" and they shoot 25/50 yards.

At major bullseye matches, multiple competitors often clean (all 10s) timed and/or rapid fire which is done at 25 yards. Rapid fire timing in bullseye competition is a maximum of 2 seconds per shot. This is really, really slow compared to action pistol timing. But, the action pistol equivalent of the bullseye 10 ring is 8" (IDPA target), and the vast majority of targets in most action pistol shooting are at distances of 15 yards and closer. IDPA's maximum allowable target distance is 35 yards.

A 4" group would be like shooting nothing but 9s and 10s on a bullseye course...with a pocket pistol! With a shooter/gun like that you could do very well at Camp Perry! In fact, since the bullseye is 3.3" and you're claiming 4" group, it's fair to say at least 75% of your shots would be 10s...which means you would have been the 2010 National Champion! Congrats.

75% would not be enough. The 2010 National Champion's winning score was 2650 with 134x; hence, at least 81.5% of his shots had to be 10s.

Sue me; I rounded off to 75%. Bringing the target closer would only increase the score and no one has ever shot a perfect 2700/2700 or even a 900/900. Rapid fire is done at shorter ranges, but I said forget about the rapid fire...slow, aimed, methodical Bullseye fire (which is 50 yards, quote below to back it up), its hard to hold a 4" group with a match gun, let alone a pocket pistol.

I'd buy that someone somewhere has shot a 4"/40 yard group with a pocket pistol, but its' a fluke. A single, stellar group that can't be repeated.

The standard 90-shot course of fire begins with 30 shots of slow fire. In the slow-fire stage the target is placed at 50 yards and you're given 10 minutes to fire 10 shots. The targets are scored and repaired after each string of 10 shots.
http://www.bullseyepistol.com/getinto.htm

Edit: 81.5% is also wrong as that would require 220.05 of his shots be 10s...which is impossible. It really should be 220/270 for a tie (Xs would break it) which would be more like 81.48148...%.

[srwg9mm]

Edit: 81.5% is also wrong as that would require 220.05 of his shots be 10s...which is impossible. It really should be 220/270 for a tie (Xs would break it) which would be more like 81.48148...%.

you are such a shmuck

[Chasbo00]

Sue me; I rounded off to 75%. Bringing the target closer would only increase the score and no one has ever shot a perfect 2700/2700 or even a 900/900. Rapid fire is done at shorter ranges, but I said forget about the rapid fire...slow, aimed, methodical Bullseye fire (which is 50 yards, quote below to back it up), its hard to hold a 4" group with a match gun, let alone a pocket pistol.

Can't sue - if you were only talking slowfire, you may have been right.

When shooting slowfire, the gun's caliber makes a big difference. Both 22 caliber and 45 caliber pistols are used. The 22 caliber pistols are more accurate and easier to shoot than the 45 caliber pistols. 75% 10s with a .45 caliber for just the slowfire portion of the course would likely be much better than shot by the 2010 champion. However, the champion likely shot much better than 75% 10s with the 22 caliber pistol for the slowfire portion of the match. For example, here are the results for the .22 and 45 national standalone slowfire matches:

.45 Cal: http://www.nrahq.org/compete/natpdf/cp143-10.pdf

.22 Cal: http://www.nrahq.org/compete/natpdf/cp135-10.pdf

[ChicagoGuy]

Anyone have experience or opinions on the Sig P238? I have a friend that is asking about about it as a possible summer pocket gun.

You can look it up on youtube. There are lots reviews and more than a few suggest it jams somewhat often. Once is more than I care to experience if I was defending my life!!!

[gunderwood]

Sue me; I rounded off to 75%. Bringing the target closer would only increase the score and no one has ever shot a perfect 2700/2700 or even a 900/900. Rapid fire is done at shorter ranges, but I said forget about the rapid fire...slow, aimed, methodical Bullseye fire (which is 50 yards, quote below to back it up), its hard to hold a 4" group with a match gun, let alone a pocket pistol.

Can't sue - if you were only talking slowfire, you may have been right.

When shooting slowfire, the gun's caliber makes a big difference. Both 22 caliber and 45 caliber pistols are used. The 22 caliber pistols are more accurate and easier to shoot than the 45 caliber pistols. 75% 10s with a .45 caliber for just the slowfire portion of the course would likely be much better than shot by the 2010 champion. However, the champion likely shot much better than 75% 10s with the 22 caliber pistol for the slowfire portion of the match. For example, here are the results for the .22 and 45 national standalone slowfire matches:

.45 Cal: http://www.nrahq.org/compete/natpdf/cp143-10.pdf

.22 Cal: http://www.nrahq.org/compete/natpdf/cp135-10.pdf

I think at this point we've overdone the comparison. However, I stand by 81.48148...% for a tie.

[wpoppert]

I'm not going to engage in the 40 yard debate, but I would suggest renting one if possible before buying. I carried a P228 (M11) when I was with NCIS, and I liked it a lot. When I was in Tampa last year I rented a P238 and could barely hit paper at 10 yards. I swapped it out for a CZ-75 and shot nice groups around the center of the target with that. Maybe the P238 grip didn't fit my hand well? I don't know, but that particular gun didn't suit me.

[DobeMan]

I got one earlier this year, on consignment at Guns and Ammo Warehouse in Nokesville.

At first, it didn't perform very well - it kept on jamming one way or another - Failure to eject, stovepipes, and failure to go back into battery. I did some research online, and many suggestions were made to replace the recoil spring with a 12-lb Wolff spring. In comparing the 2 springs, the Wolff is longer and significantly stiffer. I'm assuming that the original sprig was well beyond its servicable life. Lo and behold, all the problems got solved and now she shoots flawlessly. I had to get a set of Sarge's Grips in Pomelle Bubinga because the light grey plastic grips straight up suck in the looks department. I currently carry in a Galco pocket holster, still waiting for my CrossBreed MiniTuck. Still, even with just the pocket holster, the safety has never snapped off by itself - it takes quite a concerted effort to disengage it (even more so to engage it).



I really like the way it carries and feels. Weight is good. Not ultralight to the point there is a lot of muzzle flip, not so heavy that you don't want to carry it. I have relatively small hands and this little puppy feels pretty good. 90 - 95 grain standard load cartridges has just a little snap to them, nothing unmanageable. Between 3-4 yards, I can empty the 6-round magazine into center mass easily as fast as I can pull the short reset trigger. I can hit accurately as I can out to about 7-8 yards.

The stock night sights are good, just as good as the Glock 17 with standard Trijicon 3-dot sights. I have a pair of Sig stainless magazines and a pair of Mustang magazines. While the Colt magazines work, they hang up every so often, so they are for range use only.

[xjohnx]

http://vagunforum.net/handguns/finally- ... t8660.html

[Palladin]

Edit: 81.5% is also wrong as that would require 220.05 of his shots be 10s...which is impossible. It really should be 220/270 for a tie (Xs would break it) which would be more like 81.48148...%.

you are such a shmuck

Spoken by one who knows!

no rebuttal, no cross examination

[gunderwood]

Edit: 81.5% is also wrong as that would require 220.05 of his shots be 10s...which is impossible. It really should be 220/270 for a tie (Xs would break it) which would be more like 81.48148...%.

you are such a shmuck

Spoken by one who knows!

no rebuttal, no cross examination

Can't argue with the truth...