Pump, semi, or revolver....

[Mindflayer]

Found a good deal on a pump shotgun (I'll not mention model to avoid that debate), and was close to buying when I considered more carefully the purpose. I want something fun to shoot for both my girlfriend and me, and also serve as a home defense weapon. Now, I have semi-automatic pistols and two carbines, so it's not really necessary... but we can always have more, right?

The thing with the pump shotgun that concerns me is that it will take some training. I know holding up a longarm gets tiring for her after a while. I also know that without training, short shucking a pump is a real possibility. The recoil from firing slugs when at the range is also a small concern.

OTOH, a revolver is easier to load than the SAs, and easy to maneuver. Hmmm...

Thoughts?

[Palladin]

From the girlfriend angle, the question would be: Has she shot before, and does she enjoy it?
If no, and you want her to learn to enjoy the sport, start with a .22 pistol, preferably an autoloader. Get her hooked first then move on from there.
If she already enjoys shooting, then she'll understand the need for a rich and varied toolkit!

[davasmith]

Get a .38 spl revolver in the lightweight configuration. She'll be able to handle the recoil and it'll pack enough of a punch to put down a purp. No matter how you go, she needs to shoot it as much as possible when no situations warrant it. Muscle memory will help her and you, if the need ever did arise.

[Jakeiscrazy]

Can you girlfriend shoot and manipulate your semis just fine?

[Vahunter]

Ruger MK11 for a semiauto, Ruger single six for a revolver ( both .22's ) and maybe a Marlin model 60 for a semiauto .22. All mentioned are about perfect for a lady and fun to shoot. Notice I didn't mention a 10-22 ?

[grumpyMSG]

Found a good deal on a pump shotgun (I'll not mention model to avoid that debate), and was close to buying when I considered more carefully the purpose. I want something fun to shoot for both my girlfriend and me, and also serve as a home defense weapon. Now, I have semi-automatic pistols and two carbines, so it's not really necessary... but we can always have more, right?

The thing with the pump shotgun that concerns me is that it will take some training. I know holding up a longarm gets tiring for her after a while. I also know that without training, short shucking a pump is a real possibility. The recoil from firing slugs when at the range is also a small concern.

OTOH, a revolver is easier to load than the SAs, and easy to maneuver. Hmmm...

Thoughts?

If it is a 20 gauge, it won't bother her a bit, if it is a 12 the recoil will be noticeable, not unbearable unless she doesn't control it properly, then it might hurt. Short shucking is easily prevented with practice. train and learn with a 20 gauge, later acquire a 12 for the home defense role. For now you have two carbines, make one of them "hers" and teach her how to use it in the defensive role.

I never have understood the whole semi-auto/revolver debate, both have their strengths and weaknesses, both can be easy to use and both can be hard to master.

[kanata67]

Found a good deal on a pump shotgun (I'll not mention model to avoid that debate), and was close to buying when I considered more carefully the purpose. I want something fun to shoot for both my girlfriend and me, and also serve as a home defense weapon. Now, I have semi-automatic pistols and two carbines, so it's not really necessary... but we can always have more, right?

The thing with the pump shotgun that concerns me is that it will take some training. I know holding up a longarm gets tiring for her after a while. I also know that without training, short shucking a pump is a real possibility. The recoil from firing slugs when at the range is also a small concern.

OTOH, a revolver is easier to load than the SAs, and easy to maneuver. Hmmm...

Thoughts?

If it is a 20 gauge, it won't bother her a bit, if it is a 12 the recoil will be noticeable, not unbearable unless she doesn't control it properly, then it might hurt. Short shucking is easily prevented with practice. train and learn with a 20 gauge, later acquire a 12 for the home defense role. For now you have two carbines, make one of them "hers" and teach her how to use it in the defensive role.

I never have understood the whole semi-auto/revolver debate, both have their strengths and weaknesses, both can be easy to use and both can be hard to master.

what he said... plus
I was sold a taurus 40cal pistol at such a price I could not refuse it that a friend bought for his wife. She hated the kick of it. She absolutely loves the walther p22 lr pistol he got her after as a replacement. He got the short barrel version. I personally have the 5 inch barrel walther p22 and love it. My favorite pistol to shoot and ammo is cheap enough for me to learn more and for my wife to learn enough to have my back. Subsonic ammo is available. Not the best for home protection if one wants pure stopping power. On the other hand most home invaders will at least go the other way after the first shot at them. Trained assassin's are a different matter and not a concern for most people. I think the quote goes... "the pistol is so I can get to my shotgun so I can get to my rifle so I can get to my tank"

[Mindflayer]

To be honest, I think I am trying to justify a shotgun or that revolver. She shoots the AR, Mini 14, and the semi-automatics just fine. I know locking the slide is an issue for her, esp. on the .45 ACP, but it's probably not as major an issue with a home invasion.

Right now, I am debating between the pump or a revolver... of course, my friends are of great help and say, "Both! Oh, and a Saiga 12, too!"

[kanata67]

how about a judge? Technically it's both.

[gunderwood]

Trained assassin's are a different matter and not a concern for most people."

Trained assassins? No, but determined criminals? Absolutely.

IMO, if your planning your SD around the other guy deciding to run away you're setting yourself up for failure.

[newdovo]

My pick is a .357 magnum. Nice shooting milder .38's through it, too.

[kanata67]

Trained assassin's are a different matter and not a concern for most people."

Trained assassins? No, but determined criminals? Absolutely.

IMO, if your planning your SD around the other guy deciding to run away you're setting yourself up for failure.

I was thinking in terms of common thieves and looters. A determined enemy is an entirely different situation as you point out. In such a case one should be prepared as the situation accords. IE if I was going to pick a fight with the federal gov't I would have a tank and diplomatic immunity. As I don't, I pay my taxes and stay within the law. In the case of foreign/alien/zombie invasion you should be prepared enough to acquire an enemy weapon at earliest convenience.

[Jakeiscrazy]

Trained assassin's are a different matter and not a concern for most people."

Trained assassins? No, but determined criminals? Absolutely.

IMO, if your planning your SD around the other guy deciding to run away you're setting yourself up for failure.

I was thinking in terms of common thieves and looters. A determined enemy is an entirely different situation as you point out. In such a case one should be prepared as the situation accords. IE if I was going to pick a fight with the federal gov't I would have a tank and diplomatic immunity. As I don't, I pay my taxes and stay within the law. In the case of foreign/alien/zombie invasion you should be prepared enough to acquire an enemy weapon at earliest convenience.

Gunderwood is trying to say you should never base your action plan on the guy running away because your screwed if he doesn't. Sure that is the great best case situation but you should always "Pray for the best and prepare for the rest!"

[kanata67]

Trained assassins? No, but determined criminals? Absolutely.

IMO, if your planning your SD around the other guy deciding to run away you're setting yourself up for failure.

I was thinking in terms of common thieves and looters. A determined enemy is an entirely different situation as you point out. In such a case one should be prepared as the situation accords. IE if I was going to pick a fight with the federal gov't I would have a tank and diplomatic immunity. As I don't, I pay my taxes and stay within the law. In the case of foreign/alien/zombie invasion you should be prepared enough to acquire an enemy weapon at earliest convenience.[/quote]
Gunderwood is trying to say you should never base your action plan on the guy running away because your screwed if he doesn't. Sure that is the great best case situation but you should always "Pray for the best and prepare for the rest!"[/quote]

I think it is boy scout (always be prepared) or better yet (plan for the worst or only the best can happen). For most situations the sound of a pump action shotgun being chambered will make most folk go out the window faster than they entered it, at least if they are smarter than a watermelon. Crack heads and meth heads are an exception, as are certain folk who just get pissed off when shot with small caliber (read marines), thankfully I don't have such in my neck of the woods regarding crack/meth heads, and I try REAL hard to never piss off a marine. squid that I am/was LOL. Be aware of your surroundings and situation and plan accordingly. Most folk need only simple defenses as what would attack is also simple. Others have numerous firearms with a Variety of ammo types. Some probably have full auto's or even tanks. (I wish I has a tank ). Planning on an enemy to run away is always a bad idea I agree, but expecting every foe to have level 4 kevlar and be sporting a 408 chy is also silly. While having claymores at every entrance to your house offers protection it can cause hyper labradors all sorts off grief, which invariably annoys the wife, which causes you grief.
One should never pull out a firearm unless the intent is to kill. While I think it good to take out somebody's kneecaps and make them suffer, it is strategically unsound. A dead enemy is a known factor, a wounded enemy may come back to haunt you. Also dead folk can't sue. Again I stress (normal) situations here in domestic US, not war time/revolution/etc. SHTF is entirely different in all aspects. And yes it can be argued that SHTF prepared folk are ready for your average intruder and the reverse is not true, most folk don't have the resources to be really SHTF prepared. I would bet money that everybody who reads this board has at least one item not yet acquired that they would like if SHTF.

[gunderwood]

Gunderwood is trying to say you should never base your action plan on the guy running away because your screwed if he doesn't. Sure that is the great best case situation but you should always "Pray for the best and prepare for the rest!"

More or less yes. Properly preparing your mind and thinking through scenarios (particularly how the limited knowledge you will have when they happen) is an important part to effective self defense. The firearm is just one part of that system and far too often that's what people put their trust in. The failure in thinking is often this...they assume their attacker thinks like them. e.g. If someone pointed a gun at them they would run away...or at least "normal" people would run away. Therefore, that's is their mindset going in.

The problem is that mindset gets people killed. There are plenty of police killed every year with their own firearm, despite being trained against that mindset. I'd have to go find it again, but there was a well publicized episode in the 90s IIRC where a police officer was killed with his own gun after putting a 12ga slug center of mass through the threat. You could see daylight through the threat, but he retained the capacity to overpower the shocked officer and then kill him with his own gun. The threat died tens of yards away from that scene, but that's little condolence to the officers family. This episode was publicized in the LEO community exactly because the officer was killed because of that mindset. IIRC, the threat was not on drugs or anything else...he was just determined to kill that officer. The mind can overcome a lot of things (only CNS damage is 100% effective right NOW!). Don't believe it? Consider soldiers who commit acts of bravery...or how far a deer with a fatal shot can run...or how many dangerous game hunters die because their game attacked despite being fatally wounded multiple times. Blood loss takes time...it's not like the movies at all.

It's dangerous and I don't know any respected instructors pushing it. Warning shots, shoot-em in the leg, intimidation, etc. are all pop culture, Hollywood myths propagated by those with limited knowledge and experience. If you're justified in doing any of those things you should be emptying your firearm, center of mass/head, until that threat stops. At that point there is no middle ground; any middle ground that existed did so before you were justified in using lethal force.

The enemy is not you, they may not behave rationally like you would in such a situation as evidenced by the fact that they are already not doing so by attempting to commit an act of violence against you. Consider the kind of person it takes to purposefully break into a home with the intention of rape, murder, etc...knowing all along and perhaps waiting for the people to return home. That kind of threat is prepared, they know what their getting into before hand...those aren't some kind of mythical trained assassin or whatever, those are real criminals that you and I potentially face everyday...don't underestimate the threat!

I've started preparing a new thread to address this, but it's going to be long to cover all the background material required to justify the position.

[gunderwood]

For most situations the sound of a pump action shotgun being chambered will make most folk go out the window faster than they entered it, at least if they are smarter than a watermelon. Crack heads and meth heads are an exception, as are certain folk who just get pissed off when shot with small caliber (read marines), thankfully I don't have such in my neck of the woods regarding crack/meth heads, and I try REAL hard to never piss off a marine.

There are a lot of dead LEOs because of thinking just like that. Their partners swore up and down that such acts and craziness were not possible without drugs and then the tox-screens come back negative. I pump my shotgun all the time and don't recall jumping out any windows...its a myth.

[Mindflayer]

I ended up buying a pump - the deal was too good. I am still lusting for the SP101, though. Something about them wheelguns....

I agree with Gunderwood. Equally as important as the training to handle the firearm well is the the mental preparation to do what is necessary to protect yourself and your loved ones.

[zephyp]

@Garrett - spot on with blood loss...if thats the only significant damage of a fatal shot...in cases like this the threat stops due to loss of blood flow to the brain because it gets no more oxygen...how long can you hold your breath? Adrenalin can work wonders. A buddy of mine hit a running buck dead in the heart. It kept running flat out for more than a 100 yards until it stumbled and crumpled...physiologists have determined that the death is sometimes via shutdown command from the brain. With a mortal wound where there is only blood loss the brain might not send that signal until its sure there is no recovery possible...and then its not always instantaneous death but unconsciousness first.

In life or death SD situation the rule is you shoot until the threat stops...not merely until you are sure you plugged em through the heart...

[Jakeiscrazy]

I ended up buying a pump - the deal was too good. I am still lusting for the SP101, though. Something about them wheelguns....

I agree with Gunderwood. Equally as important as the training to handle the firearm well is the the mental preparation to do what is necessary to protect yourself and your loved ones.

What pump and how do you like it?

[Mindflayer]

I ended up buying a pump - the deal was too good. I am still lusting for the SP101, though. Something about them wheelguns....

I agree with Gunderwood. Equally as important as the training to handle the firearm well is the the mental preparation to do what is necessary to protect yourself and your loved ones.

What pump and how do you like it?

Benelli Nova. I'll tell you how this one shoots when I find time to get out!

Of course, I also found a smokin' deal on a Ruger SP101 as well. Double temptation....