flipflopping between open and concealed

whplanet · Post by **whplanet** » Sat, 16 Apr 2011 16:20:47

My guess is that this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find the right combination of search terms to pull it up...

If you have a VA CHP and you're in VA: Is there a legal reason why you should painstakingly conceal your handgun? What I mean is... what's the problem with bulging, printing, or carrying under a light jacket that flaps in the wind revealing your piece occasionally.

Let me try to answer my own question:
There may not be a law preventing you from unconcealing your concealed handgun (i.e. going from concealed to open carry). However, someone who sees you doing so or sees your gun poke out of your jacket can accuse you of brandishing your weapon.

Am I correct here?

Yarddawg · Post by **Yarddawg** » Sat, 16 Apr 2011 16:50:25

whplanet wrote:someone who sees you doing so or sees your gun poke out of your jacket can accuse you of brandishing your weapon.

Am I correct here?

Not really http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504 ... d+18.2-282

It shall be unlawful for any person to point, hold or brandish any firearm or any air or gas operated weapon or any object similar in appearance, whether capable of being fired or not, in such manner as to reasonably induce fear in the mind of another

Printing would not necessarily "induce fear", unless of course you had your hand on the weapon and were staring angrily at the other person.

Most people do not want their weapon to print because 1) no one else needs to know that you are carrying, and 2) the anti's are more than willing to place a "man with a gun" call at the slightest hint of a weapon.

gregj · Post by **gregj** » Sat, 16 Apr 2011 17:26:05

When I took my CHP class a few years ago, the instructor ( a Sheriff Deputy) was adamant that we use good holsters to minimze printing. He did not want any of his students to be victim of a bogus MWG call. He had a few stories of legal CHP holders being victims of a bogus call, because they exposed their firearm while reaching, etc, to someone and they felt "fearful". I dont know the realities of all this, but I really dont want to risk it, so when I carry, it's concealed. YEMV

Vahunter · Post by **Vahunter** » Sat, 16 Apr 2011 17:49:45

Really it depends on where you live. I would think up in NOVA printing or having the butt of your gun showing would get the cops called rather quickly. In rural area's like where I live people think nothing of it, whether printing or open carry, that is if they are from around here.
A few years ago during hunting season I went to the ABC store in the middle of the day. When I got to the counter and reached for my wallet my gun's grips showed. All of a sudden I hear " HE'S GOT A GUN." in a yankee accent coming from the back of the store. The clerk looked around and I put my hand on my gun while I was looking for the threat. Then I noticed all eyes on me.

The clerk and I started laughing at the same time and he told the 'ol yankee " I don't have to worry about getting robbed with him in here."

snatale42 · Post by **snatale42** » Sat, 16 Apr 2011 18:00:05

Vahunter wrote:All of a sudden I hear " HE'S GOT A GUN." in a yankee accent coming from the back of the store. The clerk looked around and I put my hand on my gun while I was looking for the threat. Then I noticed all eyes on me. The clerk and I started laughing at the same time and he told the 'ol yankee " I don't have to worry about getting robbed with him in here."

We come from a screwed up place! Don't you know that being in the same room as a gun MEANS YOUR GOING TO DIE!!!! oh the propaganda.

Post by **zephyp** » Sun, 17 Apr 2011 12:10:57

I CC in NOVA and am not concerned about printing or letting it be seen if I reach. If you're carrying concealed makes some people make assumptions both good and bad.

wally626 · Post by **wally626** » Sun, 17 Apr 2011 14:45:20

Legally in VA there is no issue with a concealed gun printing or being exposed. There is no place you can conceal carry that you cannot also open carry in VA. It would be very difficult to get charged with brandishing with a holstered weapon. The only possibility would be if when confronting someone you swept back a cover garment to let the person know you had the weapon, assuming you had no justification for doing so. Casual exposure or taking a jacket off leaving the gun exposed would not be brandishing.

gunderwood · Post by **gunderwood** » Sun, 17 Apr 2011 15:53:30

wally626 wrote:The only possibility would be if when confronting someone you swept back a cover garment to let the person know you had the weapon, assuming you had no justification for doing so.

If you have reason to do so it is because they are a threat to you and you fear for your life...why aren't you shooting? Don't hesitate because the other guy won't.

wally626 wrote:Casual exposure or taking a jacket off leaving the gun exposed would not be brandishing.

+1

Jakeiscrazy · Post by **Jakeiscrazy** » Sun, 17 Apr 2011 19:02:13

gunderwood wrote:
wally626 wrote:The only possibility would be if when confronting someone you swept back a cover garment to let the person know you had the weapon, assuming you had no justification for doing so.
If you have reason to do so it is because they are a threat to you and you fear for your life...why aren't you shooting? Don't hesitate because the other guy won't.

Many times the of presence of a gun alone will diffuse the situation. There are plenty of accounts were just such a move has been enough to deter a crime.

gunderwood · Post by **gunderwood** » Sun, 17 Apr 2011 21:37:25

Jakeiscrazy wrote:
gunderwood wrote:
wally626 wrote:The only possibility would be if when confronting someone you swept back a cover garment to let the person know you had the weapon, assuming you had no justification for doing so.
If you have reason to do so it is because they are a threat to you and you fear for your life...why aren't you shooting? Don't hesitate because the other guy won't.
Many times the of presence of a gun alone will diffuse the situation. There are plenty of accounts were just such a move has been enough to deter a crime.

The display of a firearm to intimidate or threaten is brandishing, which is illegal. You should not brandish under any circumstances...if you aren't brandishing you should be shooting, otherwise your firearm should remain as it was and you should go about your business.

ProShooter · Post by **ProShooter** » Sun, 17 Apr 2011 21:57:23

wally626 wrote: There is no place you can conceal carry that you cannot also open carry in VA.

Not 100% true. Your gun must stay concealed in your vehicle while on school property in the parking lot, bus loop, etc. You can't OC.

whplanet · Post by **whplanet** » Mon, 18 Apr 2011 11:26:15

The law linked in the second post regarding brandishing specifically exempts self defense. So, it is legal to brandish when you feel your life threatened. If the theat disappears at that point, I don't see how you would be obligated to shoot to avoid a brandishing charge.

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gunderwood · Post by **gunderwood** » Mon, 18 Apr 2011 12:58:01

whplanet wrote:The law linked in the second post regarding brandishing specifically exempts self defense. So, it is legal to brandish when you feel your life threatened. If the theat disappears at that point, I don't see how you would be obligated to shoot to avoid a brandishing charge.

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It's a matter of tactics. Why would you draw a gun if you didn't intend to fire it? If you feel your life is in danger and are justified in using lethal force, why do you pause and make a threat? It's bad form and the other guy won't hesitate.

It puts you in a mindset where you may consider drawing your firearm for anything less than a situation which warrants it. We've seen this play out with LE and less lethals. One could ask why you had time to make a threat with a firearm if you life were really in danger?

The short time between when I make the decision to draw and the first round goes off isn't sufficient time to re-evaluate the threats actions or to make a counter threat. The only way I'd have that time is if I drew before I was justified in shooting you or I hesitated upon drawing (excluding HD for obvious reasons). Drawing before I'm legally justified is brandishing and hesitating is likely to get me killed; ones illegal and the other is bad form and should be avoided. If you are not ready to do what is necessary and without hesitation, perhaps you shouldn't carry.

whplanet · Post by **whplanet** » Mon, 18 Apr 2011 14:09:39

I see your point. I agree with you in a scenario where your attacker is armed with a firearm and situations where there is a swift attack regardless of weapon. However, there are still situations where you'd be better off drawing before deciding to shoot. I think Gerald Ung is a perfect example. We can argue all day as to whether he drew too early or hesitated too long, but I believe his reluctance to shoot was justified as well as brandishing his weapon.

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wally626 · Post by **wally626** » Mon, 18 Apr 2011 19:26:25

ProShooter wrote:
wally626 wrote: There is no place you can conceal carry that you cannot also open carry in VA.

Not 100% true. Your gun must stay concealed in your vehicle while on school property in the parking lot, bus loop, etc. You can't OC.

Good catch, a pistol would have to stay concealed, but you could open carry a long gun in your vehicle if it was unloaded.

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