Man who claimed self-defense now charged with murder in Newp

[SgtBill]

As a retired Det. Sergeant I can only say SHUT THE -------- UP keep your mouth shut and ask for your attorney. I would not suggest that you leave the sceen unless he had a bunch of friends there and if you do go directly to the Police Department AFTER you call your Attorney.

I did read the article and I have a problem with it- nowhere in said article did it say where the perp had a knife in his hand or any other weapon. The infrence is drawn that he had a knife because he had one IN THE BAR but nothing is said about one in the parking lot only that 2 were recoverd from THE BODY at the HOSPITAL. I would think that if he had them in hand at the time he was shot then they would be recoverd FROM THE GROUND not from his person.
If the shooter shot the guy only because he was useing his mouth as a weapon and not because he was in fear for his life then he has a PROBLEM and has to be charged.

Question #1
How far away was the perp when he got shot ?
Question #2
What was the Perp saying when he got shot ?
Question #3
What do the witness's say transpired ?
These are just some of the more important questions that have to be answerd to make me decide if a Warrant for Arrest should have been issued.
Bill

[davasmith]

Ya' know this all got kicked started in a bar. I wonder if alcohol had anything to do with this incident? Maybe poor judgement due to partial intoxication, or intoxicated while carrying? This is the only issue that stands out to me, because head shots are to stop immediately, which is after all why you fire in the first place. IMHO
ps. he should've kept em' in the ten ring!

[VBshooter]

I keep thinking along that CA"s thought is the excessive force being used instead of retreating angle//This will be a very interesting case owhen and if the facts ever do come out,,,It will also one for all CHP carriers to make note of for future reference

[Tweaker]

There is no duty to retreat in VA. Our case law is superior to Castle Doctrine, which is why it is a low priority for VCDL and others.

the 21 foot concept is a myph (myth for you haters)

I missed the part about how many times he shot or where he hit, but I don't see any problem for a properly knowledgeable firearms/shooting expert to explain away that bit of armchair what iffn'.

Shooting to stop a threat very commonly results in a dead POS. No tears, no fears, even if the scum got it in the rear.

[cabrera]

I keep thinking along that CA"s thought is the excessive force being used instead of retreating angle//This will be a very interesting case owhen and if the facts ever do come out,,,It will also one for all CHP carriers to make note of for future reference

Most definitely!

RTBA Please keep this forum informed of what is ongoing.
I expect that we will never hear of this again in the media.

[RTBA]

I just got home from work. I want to answer all your questions but I have a tattoo appointment. I will get back on tonight and repost. Thanks for all the feed back !

[VBshooter]

Good Luck with your ink!!

[RTBA]

He only fled because he was scared. He stopped someone walking their dog and asked to use their phone. They said they did not have one. Charles told him he just shot someone, showed him the gun, took the clip out and laid it down. The guy pulled out his cell phone. As he was calling 911 he also flagged down a passing police officer. They took him back. Questioned everyone. Then like 2 hours later they interviewed him. Told him he was free to go but thy would like him to come downtown and answer more questions. He did, and they let him go free.
After Greg was shot his girlfriend was there immmediately and was holding him in her arms. Who is to say she did not put them away. I pray that her fingerprints are on one of those knives. Plus, if someone was waving a knife around 5 minutes before. You manage to get him to put it away. Then as you are walking towards your car you hear " Charles look out" and see this thug running at you. Are you going to take the time to inspect his hands ? It was after 11 pm . Charles was at the back door of the car because that is where he reached in and got his gun from the backseat. He said he was at the headlights when he stopped shooting because the guy finally dropped. He pointed towards the ground/leg area. He fired 6 times I think. 3 hit. If they do a full investigation of entry wounds it may tell his position when he was shot. I think it could have hit him 1st in the leg, 2nd stomach, 3rd in the head. Maybe ?!? Like as he is falling ? Charles is not a malicious person. I have know him for 10 years. Charles had 2 friends present. Greg had his girlfriend.
I can not honestly say exactly how far he was. Charles always made it sound withing 20 feet and approaching.
Charles said "Stop, or I will shoot" Greg said "Shoot me bitch".
All of the stories must have lined up because he was set free that night. He has nothing to hide. Hopefully telling the truth will set him free.
Charles hardly ever drinks and he never goes out. He went out that night because he was back in town from working out of state. He came back to try and work some problems out with his baby mamma. Well she wouldn't see him so he went out with his friend. He had 1 beer. And had just bought his second when he had to leave to go out in the parking lot. He left to watch his friends back. His friend left to watch his girlfriends back. His girlfrirend left becasue Gregs girlfriend was very scared and did not want to leave with him. This was the second bar Greg and his girl was kicked out of that night. The first bar I heard always kicks both of them out all the time because he was always jacking her up in there.
" ps. he should've kept em' in the ten ring! " What does that mean ?
WHEW that was a mouthfull.

[Tweaker]

It means make perfect hits, and you are free to ignore that joke/unrealistic suggestion

[davasmith]

I was simply implying that his shots should have been purposeful. Simply firing to stop in a general direction such as at the ground without knowing the back drop situation is often grounds for a felony called shooting into an occupied building or crowd. As you stated, there were people out there in the parking lot. It was not simply a joke, but a thought. If the bullets were put directly into the chest area, he shot with purpose and not fear. This is still a viable self defense means, look at common police shootings. They dont shoot at the ground, they shoot center mass. They shoot to stop. Period. I feel for your friend, I hope our justice system does as well. Time will tell.

[davasmith]

Tweaker, it's called gun control.

[scott9050]

IMO, what would a reasonable person do in this situation?
The man threatened to do bodily harm to him and displayed a weapon.
The individual waited for him in the parking lot ofter being kicked out of the bar, and this was the immediate interaction after the threat.
The individual advanced toward him and would not stop when challenged.
The knife being displayed IMO has little merit as many knives are easily concealed, by the side or up a shirt sleeve. This fact and the fact that the guy was violent and the victim knew this makes this completely justified from the little details I have heard about the case. IMO, I would have done the exact same thing.
As the old saying goes, rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

[cabrera]

As the old saying goes, rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

I just hope the 12 who judge him don't walk around with their head up their a$$!
If nothing else this has convinced me to join Armed Citizen's Legal Defense Network!

[SgtBill]

IMO, what would a reasonable person do in this situation?
The man threatened to do bodily harm to him and displayed a weapon.
The individual waited for him in the parking lot ofter being kicked out of the bar, and this was the immediate interaction after the threat.
The individual advanced toward him and would not stop when challenged.
The knife being displayed IMO has little merit as many knives are easily concealed, by the side or up a shirt sleeve. This fact and the fact that the guy was violent and the victim knew this makes this completely justified from the little details I have heard about the case. IMO, I would have done the exact same thing.
As the old saying goes, rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

I am not going to get long and drawn out on this but here goe's.
Nothing was stated that he was again threatened out in the parking lot.
How do you know that he was waiting for the guy out in the parking lot.
The knife has little merit in YOUR opinion. That's nice but YOU were not there and can't have an opinion without first hand knowledge.
Just because the victum was ALLEDGED to be VIOLENT won't make anything completely justified. You would have done the same and you could possibly share a jail cell with him.

Judged by 12 than carried by 6 , you can rest assured that you would in fact be judged by 12 and if you were unlucky enough you might spend the rest of your life in jail.

All it would take is for the shooter with some backup from witnesses to state that the guy that got shot had a KNIFE in his hand. No problem, bust your caps and wait for the law to show up.
Bill

[scott9050]

I am not going to get long and drawn out on this but here goe's.
Nothing was stated that he was again threatened out in the parking lot.
How do you know that he was waiting for the guy out in the parking lot.

It says so right in the first post of the page:

Police say witnesses saw Arsenault approach Crist as he went to his car and that’s when Crist pulled out a gun.

He said he had a knife, two were found on the suspect.

The knife has little merit in YOUR opinion. That's nice but YOU were not there and can't have an opinion without first hand knowledge.
Just because the victum was ALLEDGED to be VIOLENT won't make anything completely justified. You would have done the same and you could possibly share a jail cell with him.

And possibly not. I was not there but can have an opinion on the matter. But one thing is for damn sure, I sure as hell will not let someone who in my knowledge has a weapon get anywhere close to me. With that knowledge and you advancing toward me, I would have dropped him as well. I've been in the situation twice in my civilian life and luckily the perps stopped.

Judged by 12 than carried by 6 , you can rest assured that you would in fact be judged by 12 and if you were unlucky enough you might spend the rest of your life in jail.

And that could happen to any one of us here, make a split decision that is poured over by prosecutors who decide to make a possible political statement on a split second life or death decision.

All it would take is for the shooter with some backup from witnesses to state that the guy that got shot had a KNIFE in his hand. No problem, bust your caps and wait for the law to show up.
Bill

Again, prior knowledge of a weapon can make all the difference as well as the intent of the perp and we have no idea if a jury will convict based on evidence. He was not having friendly intentions coming toward him, and his prior criminal record is admissible. IMO, and it is only my opinion, he will be found not guilty and let go. But then again, a man could carry his weapons legally in New Jersey and be sent to prison for 7 months, so who knows.

[SgtBill]

Just because he was again approached out in the parking lot may not mean that the deceased was in fact waiting for him.

Yes 2 knife's were found ON the suspect at the Hospital. I should think that as the guy was dying he would not have had the presence of mind to put the knife's in his coat or pants pocket's.

Yes I have made those split second decisions and had Preoscutors pour over it for several months. One might say that I speak from first hand knowledge.

I am sorry but unless your friend can read minds he has no knowledge of the perps intent.How would anyone know what his intentions were while he approached your friend.
For your sake I hope he is found not guilty and let go, but I don't know as I don't have all the fact's in the case in front of me. Oh ! and his prior record may or may not be admissable that will be decided by the judge.
Bill

[scott9050]

I went on trial in 1997 for basically the same thing but with a split second saving me from pulling the trigger, so you can say I have a little first hand knowledge on the subject as well. I faced a deputy D/A and luckily made her look silly on the stand with the help of a good attorney. I've been there with a witness arriving a few seconds too late and misinterpreting what had just happened. Luckily I was found not guilty by a judge with some sense. It propelled me to complete B.L.E.T. in North Carolina and later take a job with the N.C.D.O.C. and some years later get my bachelors in Criminal Justice from Western Michigan University. I still carry a weapon daily in my job as the site supervisor of security on a sensitive government contract in NOVA and am thankful I did not have to pull the trigger that day in 1997. But had he come at me another step, I most certainly would have.

[RTBA]

His next court date is April 13. Its a bond hearing. I will keep you guys posted. Some of your statements give me hope for him. I just don't have much faith in our judicial systems. And I am affraid they are going to try and make some political case/statement out of this.

[scott9050]

His next court date is April 13. Its a bond hearing. I will keep you guys posted. Some of your statements give me hope for him. I just don't have much faith in our judicial systems. And I am affraid they are going to try and make some political case/statement out of this.

Have you set up a legal defense fund for him yet? A good lawyer makes all the difference. You absolutely do not want a public defender on the job when stakes are so high.

[Tweaker]

Davas, we are in complete agreement about to ill advised decision to "shoot at the ground in front of him." You shoot to stop a threat, not to kill, and anything less than that is begging for prosecution. You never fire warning shots, shots to wound or to scare. I was trying to keep it simple for this guy who seems very young and inexperienced, but has the right idea and the good thinking to try to learn more here and hopefully elsewhere as well.

Sadly, I also have very little faith in the judicial system. I am seriously considering NRA legal defense insurance. Does anyone have any experience or advice about this service?