suggestions on buying a 45

[OakRidgeStars]

Sounds like someone is scared of the "Hammer of Thor"

[Kuda]

I love my S&W M&P. I have the mid size (4" barrel) only because the compact was not out. It is my carry and HP go to piece. It is heavy and a bit bulky on the carry, but you get used to it. If you are looking just for home protection, size should not be a problem and it fits into a multitude of drawer safes (perhaps another purchase to keep it from getting stolen!).

End of the day, try them all out and see what feels right.

Good luck.

[Palladin]

100 years of .45ACP - why?


It works!

[CCFan]

100 years of .45ACP - why?


It works!

Only because the 10mm wasn't around back then.

[CCFan]

I do like 1911s as well.... That being said - does anyone have any real insight into any of the high-end 1911's? I'm thinking about a new .45 as well - but maybe a Les Baer or Ed Brown... What's the deal with those, STI, Wilson Combat, Dan Wesson, Nighthawk, et al? Any of those stand out any more than the others to you? If so why?

[gunderwood]

100 years of .45ACP - why?


It works!

The 9mm was designed in 1902...so 109 years of 9mm, why because it works? Also 9mm is the most widely used and popular LE/military round in the world.

[gunderwood]

I do like 1911s as well.... That being said - does anyone have any real insight into any of the high-end 1911's? I'm thinking about a new .45 as well - but maybe a Les Baer or Ed Brown... What's the deal with those, STI, Wilson Combat, Dan Wesson, Nighthawk, et al? Any of those stand out any more than the others to you? If so why?

Each has their specialty, but many are offshoots of each other. I.e. the best gunsmiths of a well known company break off and form their own 1911 brand. My personal two favorites of the brands you listed are Les Baer and Wilson Combat, but I only own a WC. Someone had posted a history of the combat 1911 and it covered how certain custom brands got started or their major contributions to the industry. Once you are paying $2-3k for a 1911 they are all great guns, it's just a matter of what one you like.

[grumpyMSG]

Simple!


Don't




The .45 ACP is an old man's, macho, slow, overblown cartridge that is for those knuckle draggers who insist that size means everything. Modern bullet construction gets you nearly the EXACT SAME RESULTS in HP performance with 9mm or .40 or even better with .357 SIG or 10mm. .45 ACP has firepower (ammo capacity) for crap and is a slow, expensive round.

Bring the haters!

But I am a knuckle dragger!!

My experience with several Springfield 1911s and what I can tell you is if you buy one, it wil be either real good or a piece of crap, nothing in between. I have a Colt from the early '90s and it has been nothing but reliable, I can't speak to their newer pistols. I have had the pleasure of shooting 3 different Kimbers and 2 Les Baers, all 5 were very sweet shooting pistols, but a 1911 with no rattle or slop just doesn't seem right to me. I carried one made in 1918, when I was a private in 1983, I guess the first impression is always the longest lasting...

But if I had to pick a more modern design, I do like the Sig 220 family.

[Diomed]

100 years of .45ACP - why?


It works!

112 years of .38 Special - why?

It works!

[Tweaker]

Oy, I think the next shout out goes to .45 (not abnormally long) Colt.

I don't care either way, and I really like the history behind the 1911. I don't see how it is 5 times the gun that the price would indicate or agree the caliber is anything to get a chub over is all.

For the record I like most all guns. Even those favored by cave dudes like you guys!

[gunderwood]

I don't see how it is 5 times the gun that the price would indicate or agree the caliber is anything to get a chub over is all.

The high price buys you something, you just have to recognize what it is and then decide if it matters to you or not.

There are cheap 1911s which cost more or less just as much as a cheaper modern design. However, the 1911 wasn't designed with the modern manufacturing methods we use today in mind. For example, there are some assemblies that today we wouldn't think twice about making one complex part, but 100 years ago it had to be three parts with pins holding them together for manufacturing reasons. Higher parts counts mean more assembly time, inventory issues, and it is likely more expensive to make three separate parts than one complex part with todays technology. Etc.

IMHO the value proposition for handguns goes something like this (regardless of type):

Sub $300 is a hard place to be. Quality of such guns is seriously in question. Very little if any QC over the parts or assembled firearms is done. You get a significantly better firearm for not much more.

$300-$500 you start getting into mass produced firearms with real QC. Parts are generally made better, but that is what you get. You're paying for more expensive tools and personnel to run those tools.

$500-$1000 you starting seeing some very well made parts using the best tools. E.g. a 4-axis CNC mill and the resulting product costs much more than castings, MIM, etc...although you do still see a good bit of the cheaper parts being used by some manufacturers (inflation is pushing most of them this way). QC programs are pretty high (six sigma process or whatever the flavor of the month is), but the average worker assembling the firearm is still just a trained worker who could just as well be assembling a car or a sewing machine.

$1000-$2000 cheap parts quickly become non-existent in most models. Everything becomes forged/CNC, etc., although as I noted before we are seeing more such manufacturers reduce the quality with parts that "are just as good," rather than raise prices. The average assembler usually has much more experience, probably not a gunsmith (definitely not the mass produced offerings), but their training is significantly better. QC has finally reached a point where there really isn't much else you can do for function. You see things like magnetic particle inspections after proof testing, accuracy tests, whole guns which function fine are sent back for rework because they are too close to being out of spec.

$2k+ most of these guns are built by someone with at least a minimal level of gunsmith training...higher priced models may exclusively be built by one person. Parts can't really get any better, but hand fitting and individual parts fitting are common.

When you are paying that much it isn't that the firearm will be 5x more accurate or 5x more reliable or whatever. Much of the high cost is a well trained craftsman actually taking the time to work on one part or a whole gun to get it just right. It isn't just grab a slide out of the bin, install other parts out of the bin, attach it to the frame and ship it. IMHO, with modern manufacturing processes and tool, once you reach $500-$1000 you are usually getting something which may shoot just as accurate or reliable as a $3k custom...may is the key word. Inflation is pushing that number higher and soon will be over $1k, but the point is that you get a very good functional firearm for that much money.

If you want every small part to be perfect just like the exterior, it costs money. If you want the strongest parts possible, regardless if that retaining pin needs to be forged and turned on a CNC lathe, it costs money. If you want an expert to take the time to make sure your specific gun is just right rather than merely functional, it costs money. Its the difference between a really nice production luxury/sports car (take your pick) and a hand made Ferrari. Both are really nice, but the Ferrari had an expert leather craftsman make those seats and interior. The luxury/sports cars engine was assembled by a trained worker, while the Ferrari's was done by an engineer on rotation from the F1 division (made up example).

Is the Ferrari worth 5x? Maybe...definitely if I had that kind of money, but mostly drive a civic so...

[Tweaker]

That is a good comparison. I love cars. Now I know how my friends who see them as simply a way to get from A to B feel. They don't understand the emotional aspect or the appreciation for the technical skill involved or the racing history.

I get it now, but I still ain't inerested. Diff'rent strokes (whatchu talkin' bout, Gooch?) and what not.

[gunderwood]

That is a good comparison. I love cars. Now I know how my friends who see them as simply a way to get from A to B feel. They don't understand the emotional aspect or the appreciation for the technical skill involved or the racing history.

I get it now, but I still ain't inerested. Diff'rent strokes (whatchu talkin' bout, Gooch?) and what not.

I like nice cars too (autocross my S2000 a while ago), but the S2000 is as much as I'm willing to pay for one right now. It's plenty of car and it is the type of car I like (a drivers car, more lotus like than rolling couch). Sure I could probably afford a nice BMW or similar, but then I couldn't buy all of the nice firearms gear. Can't have everything.

To each his own.

[CCFan]

I get it now, but I still ain't inerested. Diff'rent strokes (whatchu talkin' bout, Gooch?) and what not.

Have you shot one much? I only ask because I didn't really used to be one of those "1911 guys" but lately - every time I head out, I reach for my Colt Delta Elite... There's a completely different feel to it - the heft of it, the feel of it, watching small, tight groups appear - something my tupperware guns simply cannot do as far as the overall feel and enjoyment of shooting.

Now I'm looking to add a few 1911s to the collection... Call me hooked! Believe it or not, I don't have a .45 - so I'm all about the excuse "But I *need* one of all the major calibers..."

[zephyp]

Yes I be a knuckledragger too...my favorite carry gun is a Baby Eagle in .45 ACP... 11 man stoppers in there bud...

[Jericho01]

I had a Ruger 45 that got stolen from my house. The police found the gun but, are keeping it as evidence and I won't get it back for a LONG time. I would like to hear from owners on different makers and feedback for purchasing a new one. I am leaning towards a Springfield.

I'm going to try to stick to your original issue.

I currently own a M1991A1 Colt Commander. It's one of my favorite CC due to its size and it has the firepower. I used to own a SA 1911 and I had no issues with it; in fact I like it and a good alternative if you find the price of the Colt and Kimber out of reach. You'll never go wrong with either a Colt or SA.

BTW, I also have a Colt .38 Super and a Colt Cobra snubby. I just love 'em.

[M1A4ME]

I've read about problem 1911 type pistols but I've never shot one. The raggedy old (maybe almost worn out 1911A1's we had in the US Army would rattle like a can of nuts/bolts when you shook one hard and still knock the pop ups down at 50 meters time after time.

I realize the didn't have hollowpoints back when the smaller round were developed but let me ask a question. Alvin York killed a squad of German soldiers coming towards his position with a 1911 and he used one round per soldier. Thomas Baker killed 8 Japanese soldiers with 8 rounds on Saipan with a 1911A1. If anyone has an account of a similar feat with a wonder 9 please share it so I don't go on thinking the 9mm can't do what the .45 acp has done.

I've shot enough groundhogs, deer, stacks of wet magazines and newspaper, etc. to know that you cannot depend of two bullets (even of the same type from the same gun) to react the same when they hit the target. Expanding bullets are great, when they actually expand. Just remember the .45 acp was developed/tested back in a time when bullets didn't expand and it still got the job done.

I bought a double stack 9mm awhile back. Its a neat little pistol (I brought it to Sgt. Bill's get together last summer so some here may have seen it) but the first time I shot it I was sick at what a lousy shot I'd become (through lack of practice) over the last few years. Then I picked up my old Colt 1911 and shot a nice group. Darn, was it me or that Browning 9mm, or the Winchester ammo? I'm not the shot I used to be but the 1911 sure makes me feel better than the 9mm.

Darn, this is turning in to a long post and not answering the OP's questions.

I'm a 1911 guy. I have been since the first time I shot one of those raggedy old 1911A1's in the Army in 1978. Other than a Ruger Mk1 5.5" .22 every semi auto pistol I've ever owned has been a 1911 or 1911A1 (until I bought that Browning). However, if I were about to "get into" shooting semi auto pistols today I sure would take a hard look at those Springfield XDs. Everything I read about them is good and I've even picked one up at a gunshow or two, but they just don't fit my hand right.

Whatever you pick, consider magazines (availability and cost). Consider holsters (same issues).

I'd also recommend rather than spending big bucks on a "custom" maker handgun I'd buy a good Colt or similar quality pistol and lots of ammo to practice with (or a good .22 conversion kit to put on the frame to practice with). I've seen more people develop accurate habits than buy them.

[gunderwood]

IAlvin York killed a squad of German soldiers coming towards his position with a 1911 and he used one round per soldier. Thomas Baker killed 8 Japanese soldiers with 8 rounds on Saipan with a 1911A1. If anyone has an account of a similar feat with a wonder 9 please share it so I don't go on thinking the 9mm can't do what the .45 acp has done.

LOL. The general shooting skill is no where near what it was then. You many never ever hear of such shooting skill in combat again even if the military readopted the .45ACP. I'd put my money on skill vs. round every day.

[gunderwood]

100 years of .45ACP - why?


It works!

Only because the 10mm wasn't around back then.

Problem is that most 10mm Auto loads are not much more than .40S&W (there are some hunting loads though). The 10mm would be awesome if there widespread availability of real 10mm SD ammo, not a wimpy 40S&W like cartridge.

[Tweaker]

Full disclosure:

I have only shot 1911 type guns on 4 occasions.

I admit that some of the reason I am apprehensive about getting attracted to one is the high cost of aquiring, tuning and feeding one. I just don't want to want it!

I have been around 1911's quite a lot though, at IDPA type matches for years, and I remain unimpressed with their reliability.

A Ferrari is mighty attractive to me, but I do not want to sponsor my mechanic and pay for his kids to go to a better college than I did! Too finicky and expensive for the return on the investment is my take on them.