Holding for friend

Duskin · Post by **Duskin** » Sun, 27 Feb 2011 12:42:10

Hi everyone at vagunforum.net, this is my first post. I've recently been asked by a friend to hold onto his 2 pistols because he is moving into a house where the owner disallows guns. He bought the guns in Arizona, and has a CCW permit from the state of Arizona. I do not have a CCW, but there's no reason I can't go and buy a handgun. I do already own a rifle, and have a gun safe where I plan on keeping all the firearms locked up. He plans on stopping by every few weeks to go shooting with me also. He hasn't moved into his new place yet, so currently is a resident of AZ.

Would there be any reason I shouldn't be holding them? Is it legal to have in possession someone else's pistols? What if I decided to go ahead and get my CCW in VA, would it be legal to carry one of his handguns?

Thanks in advanced guys.

Post by **zephyp** » Sun, 27 Feb 2011 12:47:14

Assuming you live here in VA and you can legally posses a firearm (not a felon, etc) there is no requirement to have a license or registration for any normal weapon. You may carry a handgun openly without a permit. A CHP merely allows you to carry one concealed. Hope this helps.

Duskin · Post by **Duskin** » Sun, 27 Feb 2011 12:59:39

What about if I wanted to buy one of them from him. He has a really sweet Springfield 1911 TRP, and I would love to have it as my own. Would it be better if I waited until he became a resident before we write up a bill of sale, or can I just go ahead and get it done with now?

Post by **zephyp** » Sun, 27 Feb 2011 13:04:45

Legally you must be a resident to purchase a HG here in VA. If you are a resident and can establish such then you should have no issue. Otherwise, if you can legally posses the weapons and presently have them whats the rush to buy them. I'd wait until you can do that on legal ground. By the way, AFAIK nothing about being a resident says you can or cannot simply posses a HG...but IANAL.

neoexodus · Post by **neoexodus** » Sun, 27 Feb 2011 14:30:44

What kind of crazy newspeak is AFAIK and IANAL?

ETA: should have thought about it a bit more: As Far As I Know and I Am Not A Lawyer ?

Duskin · Post by **Duskin** » Sun, 27 Feb 2011 14:45:46

I am indeed a VA resident and have a state ID, but he is not a legal resident yet, so I don't know if there will be any complications in the buy/sell process because of it. But you are right about why rush to buy them if I already legally possess them, it would just be nice to modify it how I see fit.

Thanks for all the great info zephyp!

Post by **zephyp** » Sun, 27 Feb 2011 14:46:11

neoexodus wrote: ETA: should have thought about it a bit more: As Far As I Know and I Am Not A Lawyer ?

Yep...

Yarddawg · Post by **Yarddawg** » Sun, 27 Feb 2011 18:14:40

Duskin wrote:I am indeed a VA resident and have a state ID, but he is not a legal resident yet, so I don't know if there will be any complications in the buy/sell process because of it. But you are right about why rush to buy them if I already legally possess them, it would just be nice to modify it how I see fit.

Thanks for all the great info zephyp!

If your friend is not a VA. resident, the only legal way to transfer ownership to you would involve using the services of an FFL. I'm not sure, but I think that I have seen anywhere from $25 - $50 as typical charges for an FFL transfer.

Again, your most economical option would be to wait until your friend establishes VA residency. BTW, there is no time limit that your friend must be a VA resident prior to making the transfer. Theoretically, he could get his VA driver's license, and sell you the weapon all in the same day!

Post by **zephyp** » Sun, 27 Feb 2011 18:19:03

Yarddawg wrote:
Duskin wrote:I am indeed a VA resident and have a state ID, but he is not a legal resident yet, so I don't know if there will be any complications in the buy/sell process because of it. But you are right about why rush to buy them if I already legally possess them, it would just be nice to modify it how I see fit.

Thanks for all the great info zephyp!
If your friend is not a VA. resident, the only legal way to transfer ownership to you would involve using the services of an FFL. I'm not sure, but I think that I have seen anywhere from $25 - $50 as typical charges for an FFL transfer.

Again, your most economical option would be to wait until your friend establishes VA residency. BTW, there is no time limit that your friend must be a VA resident prior to making the transfer. Theoretically, he could get his VA driver's license, and sell you the weapon all in the same day!

Hey YD, he already has possession of the weapons so I dont see a need to go through an FFL...

neoexodus · Post by **neoexodus** » Sun, 27 Feb 2011 18:49:59

Ah, you had lost me on the possession part, but I think I just figured out what you mean zeph; my reading of the OP was that he will have (and safeguard) them for his buddy, not that he already does. If he does already have them, then yes, there are no FFL worries; however, if he doesn't, and wanted to buy one of them right this minute (I suffer from a disgusting lack of patience, so I could see that happening), then he would need to go the FFL transfer route. Depending on how long the wait would be, I'd just suggest waiting for him to move and save the $27 (fee + background check), despite what I said above about patience.
Do as I say, not as I do, right?

Post by **zephyp** » Sun, 27 Feb 2011 18:53:07

@Duskin - where do you currently reside and do you have possession of the weapons?

gunderwood · Post by **gunderwood** » Sun, 27 Feb 2011 19:03:21

Yarddawg wrote:
Duskin wrote:I am indeed a VA resident and have a state ID, but he is not a legal resident yet, so I don't know if there will be any complications in the buy/sell process because of it. But you are right about why rush to buy them if I already legally possess them, it would just be nice to modify it how I see fit.

Thanks for all the great info zephyp!
If your friend is not a VA. resident, the only legal way to transfer ownership to you would involve using the services of an FFL. I'm not sure, but I think that I have seen anywhere from $25 - $50 as typical charges for an FFL transfer.

Again, your most economical option would be to wait until your friend establishes VA residency. BTW, there is no time limit that your friend must be a VA resident prior to making the transfer. Theoretically, he could get his VA driver's license, and sell you the weapon all in the same day!

+1

Technically, you are simply providing a storage location for your friend.

Yarddawg · Post by **Yarddawg** » Sun, 27 Feb 2011 19:08:06

Possession is not necessarily the same as ownership. He asked about buying a gun from his friend.

Duskin wrote:What about if I wanted to buy one of them from him. He has a really sweet Springfield 1911 TRP, and I would love to have it as my own. Would it be better if I waited until he became a resident before we write up a bill of sale, or can I just go ahead and get it done with now?

If I am not mistaken, there are two ways to complete the sale:

1. Go through the services of an FFL to complete the transfer due to his friend is not a resident of VA.
2. Do as you and I both suggested by waiting until his friend establishes residency.

From the Virginia State Police website:

The seller and buyer of a handgun must be a resident of the state in which the transfer occurs.

http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms.shtm

Post by **zephyp** » Sun, 27 Feb 2011 19:41:24

Yarddawg wrote:Possession is not necessarily the same as ownership. He asked about buying a gun from his friend.

Duskin wrote:What about if I wanted to buy one of them from him. He has a really sweet Springfield 1911 TRP, and I would love to have it as my own. Would it be better if I waited until he became a resident before we write up a bill of sale, or can I just go ahead and get it done with now?
If I am not mistaken, there are two ways to complete the sale:

1. Go through the services of an FFL to complete the transfer due to his friend is not a resident of VA.
2. Do as you and I both suggested by waiting until his friend establishes residency.

From the Virginia State Police website:

The seller and buyer of a handgun must be a resident of the state in which the transfer occurs.
http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms.shtm

Ah yes, both seller and buyer...

Diomed · Post by **Diomed** » Mon, 28 Feb 2011 00:53:39

Probably the easiest way around it is to lock the firearms in a container to which only the owner has a key. No transfer takes place.

If it's good enough for NFA stuff...

t33j · Post by **t33j** » Mon, 28 Feb 2011 02:06:37

Yarddawg wrote:Possession is not necessarily the same as ownership.

Absolutely.

In some cases people prohibited from possessing a firearm may own one. I can't think of any case where the opposite would be true.

Anyway, if the OP can possess a firearm in Va then there is no reason he cannot possess his friend's firearms here. Keeping the OP's friend's guns in his safe is not the same as transferring ownership.

+1 on both parties needing to be VA residents to avoid a FFL for a sale. A VADL is not required to establish residency. I've heard of FFLs taking bills with VA addresses on them for instance.

Duskin · Post by **Duskin** » Mon, 28 Feb 2011 04:54:59

Hey guys sorry for not replying sooner, I'm a bookkeeper and it's tax season

It's not currently in my possession, he'll be flying in March 2nd and I'll be picking him up from Dulles and transporting them to my house in Gainesville (Prince William County). He plans on getting his VA DL within a few weeks so I'll just wait until he gets it and then purchase it then. The reason I want to purchase it is because I've always wanted a 1911, and he wants to sell it so he can have some extra cash until he gets a steady income, and plans to buy a Les Baer 1911 later on down the road (he stated he regretted not getting a Les Baer initially).

So basically I'll just be storing it for him for a few weeks, and then transferring ownership once he has residency.

gunderwood · Post by **gunderwood** » Mon, 28 Feb 2011 07:46:22

Les Baer, eh? Your friend has good taste. My first high end 1911 was a Wilson Combat, but a Baer is definitely on the list.

Duskin · Post by **Duskin** » Mon, 28 Feb 2011 17:47:58

The 1911 I'm buying from him is a Springfield 1911-A1 TRP in Armory Kote with Trijicon night sights. He's had over 10 different 1911s, so he definitely knows his way around 1911s.

Diomed · Post by **Diomed** » Tue, 01 Mar 2011 04:01:01

Duskin wrote:So basically I'll just be storing it for him for a few weeks, and then transferring ownership once he has residency.

If he's flying the guns in with him, he'll need a locking case with a real (non-TSA) lock on it. My suggestion would be for him to just give you the locked case, and once his residency is straightened out and you've handed him money for the guns, he can just give you the key to the container.

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