Blow Out Kits-Who Keeps One?

[zephyp]

I got the 'being prepared" bug about a week ago and that let to the "first aid" bug. From there I started looking into a "Blow Out Kit". For those who don't know a Blow Out Kit is a refers to a medical kit to treat life threatening wounds. I definitely like the concept but get would like to get basic training in the use of one. Does anyone know were I could find said training? Also how many of you guys have BOKs that you keep handy?

Join the Marines or Army...

[gunderwood]

I got the 'being prepared" bug about a week ago and that let to the "first aid" bug. From there I started looking into a "Blow Out Kit". For those who don't know a Blow Out Kit is a refers to a medical kit to treat life threatening wounds. I definitely like the concept but get would like to get basic training in the use of one. Does anyone know were I could find said training? Also how many of you guys have BOKs that you keep handy?

Join the Marines or Army...

From what I understand the don't spend much time on first aid as it is. IIRC the hardest thing is an IV? Blow out kits are basically this:

1. Put on gloves if you can.
2. Remove clothing that is around the wound...don't be afraid to cut it up.
3. Assess wound...if it is life threating execute step 4, otherwise proceed to step 5.
4. Open and poor anti-clot powder directly on wound or apply a treated bandage.
5. Finish bandaging up the wound.

Alternatively there are tourniquets. Basic training field medic training is very little.

[WRW]

Never heard of it! But i was a basic trauma life support EMT and can honestly say an unskilled person can seriously exacerbate a situation by rendering improper aid.

I assume it would have things like suture kits, antibiotics, syringes, IV bags etc? Not all of these can be purchased legally...in theory one could try a vet that likes cash and hates asking questions for antibiotics and anesthetics. Same drugs usually but you're on your own for changing the dosages to human weights.

You can buy suture kits and scalpels online or from a surgical supply store maybe?

We practiced suturing on meat, flat steaks to simulate flat areas like the abdomen or back, pork tenderloins for curved areas like the forearm or fingers.

You can practice IV lines with a straw filled with grape juice and crimped on both ends I guess, we had a prosthetic arm to practice on before using each other as guinea pigs.

As for training...beats me. Becoming a volunteer EMT wouldn't help because they don't do IV lines or suture. Paramedics do...different class.

If you need to insert a PICC line to get sodium bicarb into your heart you're probably beyond self-aid anyway lol.

Blow out kits are not that fancy and the skills required to use the parts of the kit are minimal. The whole purpose of a blowout kit is to prevent somebody's death and stabilize the victim. If you are looking for a good idea do a google search for IFAK and you will see a good idea of the contents. Almost all of the focus is on stopping bleeding and keeping the injured breathing. Surgical gloves,a field dressing, something to pack a wound with to help control bleeding, and a tourniquet. Maybe a chest seal in case a lung is punctured. That is about it. It is all about keeping a person alive until they can receive medical treatment.

You must be careful with these! Do not use them unless you are sure you need them.

The quick clotting powders and bandages (which are just treated) will cause tissue loss. Most of them harden and must be surgically removed. I.e. you poor them on the wound and they are absorbed by the surrounding tissue, you loose the tissue! However, that is better than being dead. Also, most them are exothermic so it isn't a pleasant experience. They have contributed a great deal to soldiers surviving on the battle field, but they do complicate later medical treatment. Also, the clotting powders do go old so you must rotate them. Do some research as not all quick clot is created equal.

It isn't a bad idea to have one in your range bag (something I've been meaning to do), but only use them if you must. If you are not at risk of bleeding out, don't use them. These are suppose to be decent, but I haven't tied them yet.
http://www.cavalryarms.com/medical/medical.html

That right there is a damned fine point and one I didn't know about. In the States there is a "Golden Hour" to get to a trauma center for all but the worst of injuries. In fact, there are only a few "immediate surgical care" injuries out there. While I maybe could be talked into purchasing a clotting agent, I'd be very reserved in it's use.

[OakRidgeStars]

Does a box of tampons count?

Why, because you always have them handy in your purse?

Used in the field to plug wounds from a large caliber round.

[gunderwood]

That right there is a damned fine point and one I didn't know about. In the States there is a "Golden Hour" to get to a trauma center for all but the worst of injuries. In fact, there are only a few "immediate surgical care" injuries out there. While I maybe could be talked into purchasing a clotting agent, I'd be very reserved in it's use.

Shame my grammar was a FAIL today.

[WRW]

That right there is a damned fine point and one I didn't know about. In the States there is a "Golden Hour" to get to a trauma center for all but the worst of injuries. In fact, there are only a few "immediate surgical care" injuries out there. While I maybe could be talked into purchasing a clotting agent, I'd be very reserved in it's use.

Shame my grammar was a FAIL today.

Did I miss something? If so, it did not tarnish the nugget.

On the subject of tissue damage, tourniquetes should be a last resort as well and the time of application should be written in the vicinity of the tourniquete.

[zephyp]

Tourniquets are quite effective and can be life savers if applied and managed correctly...and I would much rather loose an arm or leg to tissue damage than die because someone was afraid of using one...also, in addition to the time put a big T on the forehead...plus loosen slightly every 10-15 minutes until bleeding is controlled or stopped...

[Jakeiscrazy]

I got the 'being prepared" bug about a week ago and that let to the "first aid" bug. From there I started looking into a "Blow Out Kit". For those who don't know a Blow Out Kit is a refers to a medical kit to treat life threatening wounds. I definitely like the concept but get would like to get basic training in the use of one. Does anyone know were I could find said training? Also how many of you guys have BOKs that you keep handy?

Join the Marines or Army...

I was thinking maybe a shorter class lol. I respect all those who serve and could never repay the debt they payed. However it just isn't my thing.

From what I understand the don't spend much time on first aid as it is. IIRC the hardest thing is an IV? Blow out kits are basically this:

1. Put on gloves if you can.
2. Remove clothing that is around the wound...don't be afraid to cut it up.
3. Assess wound...if it is life threating execute step 4, otherwise proceed to step 5.
4. Open and poor anti-clot powder directly on wound or apply a treated bandage.
5. Finish bandaging up the wound.

Alternatively there are tourniquets. Basic training field medic training is very little.

Yeah that's the basic idea but there are plenty of other things that need to be learned. Also taking a class gives you an official certification that you could put on a resume and is a level of legal protection in the event of a civil lawsuit. I haven't seen any kits with IVs in them. I could use an education in that area. I'm not all that positive on when you may need to apply one. Is it really a needed life saver for a kit like these?

You must be careful with these! Do not use them unless you are sure you need them.

The quick clotting powders and bandages (which are just treated) will cause tissue loss. Most of them harden and must be surgically removed. I.e. you poor them on the wound and they are absorbed by the surrounding tissue, you loose the tissue! However, that is better than being dead. Also, most them are exothermic so it isn't a pleasant experience. They have contributed a great deal to soldiers surviving on the battle field, but they do complicate later medical treatment. Also, the clotting powders do go old so you must rotate them. Do some research as not all quick clot is created equal.

It isn't a bad idea to have one in your range bag (something I've been meaning to do), but only use them if you must. If you are not at risk of bleeding out, don't use them. These are suppose to be decent, but I haven't tied them yet.

I completely agree. In your opinion what do you prefer, the sponge version or powder and why? Also I notice some are "X-Ray detectable". Is that something I should look for?

[TheGearGuy]

From what I understand the don't spend much time on first aid as it is. IIRC the hardest thing is an IV? Blow out kits are basically this:

1. Put on gloves if you can.
2. Remove clothing that is around the wound...don't be afraid to cut it up.
3. Assess wound...if it is life threating execute step 4, otherwise proceed to step 5.
4. Open and poor anti-clot powder directly on wound or apply a treated bandage.
5. Finish bandaging up the wound.

Alternatively there are tourniquets. Basic training field medic training is very little.

Anti-Clot? Why would you want a wound to NOT clot up?

I think what you're referring to is introducing a hemostatic agent to the wound. (QuikClot, Hemcon, Celox, etc.)

[TheGearGuy]

Tourniquets are quite effective and can be life savers if applied and managed correctly...and I would much rather loose an arm or leg to tissue damage than die because someone was afraid of using one...also, in addition to the time put a big T on the forehead...plus loosen slightly every 10-15 minutes until bleeding is controlled or stopped...

Never loosen a tourniquet after it's been applied. Tourniquets should be removed by trained medical personnel only.

[Jakeiscrazy]

Tourniquets are quite effective and can be life savers if applied and managed correctly...and I would much rather loose an arm or leg to tissue damage than die because someone was afraid of using one...also, in addition to the time put a big T on the forehead...plus loosen slightly every 10-15 minutes until bleeding is controlled or stopped...

Never loosen a tourniquet after it's been applied. Tourniquets should be removed by trained medical personnel only.

Interesting, why is that?

[tursiops]

Interesting, why is that?

this is why you should take at least an intro class....

Blood rushes to the site and shock is possible/likely.
If you don't know what shock is, you should take at least an intro class....

[gunderwood]

From what I understand the don't spend much time on first aid as it is. IIRC the hardest thing is an IV? Blow out kits are basically this:

1. Put on gloves if you can.
2. Remove clothing that is around the wound...don't be afraid to cut it up.
3. Assess wound...if it is life threating execute step 4, otherwise proceed to step 5.
4. Open and poor anti-clot powder directly on wound or apply a treated bandage.
5. Finish bandaging up the wound.

Alternatively there are tourniquets. Basic training field medic training is very little.

Anti-Clot? Why would you want a wound to NOT clot up?

I think what you're referring to is introducing a hemostatic agent to the wound. (QuikClot, Hemcon, Celox, etc.)

Yes, there is the body's natural clotting action and then there are artificial "enhancers." I have been half asleep today with many posts!

[gunderwood]

I completely agree. In your opinion what do you prefer, the sponge version or powder and why? Also I notice some are "X-Ray detectable". Is that something I should look for?

I don't know; thankfully I've never had an occasion to need one. I think they are a good idea, but I just never have gotten around to buying one. The reason X-Ray detectable is important is because they must surgically remove the clot. Complications can arise later if you are left with essentially dead tissue/clot after they seal you back up. I'm sure there are people who actually work in this field who could provide some great advise, my knowledge just comes from reading them. Sorry I can't help more.

[zephyp]

Tourniquets are quite effective and can be life savers if applied and managed correctly...and I would much rather loose an arm or leg to tissue damage than die because someone was afraid of using one...also, in addition to the time put a big T on the forehead...plus loosen slightly every 10-15 minutes until bleeding is controlled or stopped...

Never loosen a tourniquet after it's been applied. Tourniquets should be removed by trained medical personnel only.

We be assuming here that you are that trained medical personnel...and they should indeed be slightly loosened every 10-15 minutes...else that tissue damage we been talking about is far more likely...

Edit: I consider things like this relatively basic first aid...something we should all be somewhat familiar with...anyone carrying a gun should know basics about treating shock and stopping the bleeding...just my $0.02.

[Jakeiscrazy]

Interesting, why is that?

this is why you should take at least an intro class....

Blood rushes to the site and shock is possible/likely.
If you don't know what shock is, you should take at least an intro class....

Yes know what shock is and yes I plan on taking a the minimum of one or more classes.

[TheGearGuy]

Tourniquets are quite effective and can be life savers if applied and managed correctly...and I would much rather loose an arm or leg to tissue damage than die because someone was afraid of using one...also, in addition to the time put a big T on the forehead...plus loosen slightly every 10-15 minutes until bleeding is controlled or stopped...

Never loosen a tourniquet after it's been applied. Tourniquets should be removed by trained medical personnel only.

We be assuming here that you are that trained medical personnel...and they should indeed be slightly loosened every 10-15 minutes...else that tissue damage we been talking about is far more likely...

Edit: I consider things like this relatively basic first aid...something we should all be somewhat familiar with...anyone carrying a gun should know basics about treating shock and stopping the bleeding...just my $0.02.

You're going off old information. There has been a lot of recent studies about tourniquet use. They are now recommend for use for major tramua.

I'd suggest reading this:
http://www.remoteemergencycare.com/docu ... ets-gn.pdf

Especially page 2, including the foot notes. The part on "Reperfusion" especially applies. So... Bleed out in a few minutes, or have 2 hours to get to a hospital... I know my choice.

[tursiops]

By the way, I don't think tourniquet use is taught in ANY intro classes any more. The "good Samaritan" laws in most states only shield you from being successfully sued if your attempts at emergency care are within your training. So, if you run across someone who has really bad bleeding, and direct pressure (Plan A) does not work, then your use of a tourniquet to slow the bleeding enough so direct pressure DOES work is sensible, but may put you in legal jeopardy if the patient loses a limb or dies. Keep the tourniquet on, the limb probably dies. Remove the tourniquet, shock can happen and the patient dies. Then the family sues you, and you have no defense. The middle ground is a lessening of the tourniquet pressure to see if direct-pressure alone will stop the bleeding; if it does, don't put the tourniquet back on. I don't know if the wilderness first aid classes teach all this; I've never taken one but would like to.

[Jakeiscrazy]

We be assuming here that you are that trained medical personnel...and they should indeed be slightly loosened every 10-15 minutes...else that tissue damage we been talking about is far more likely...

Edit: I consider things like this relatively basic first aid...something we should all be somewhat familiar with...anyone carrying a gun should know basics about treating shock and stopping the bleeding...just my $0.02.

You're going off old information. There has been a lot of recent studies about tourniquet use. They are now recommend for use for major tramua.

I'd suggest reading this:
http://www.remoteemergencycare.com/docu ... ets-gn.pdf

Especially page 2, including the foot notes. The part on "Reperfusion" especially applies. So... Bleed out in a few minutes, or have 2 hours to get to a hospital... I know my choice.

Excellent, and remember even if you lose an arm your still alive!

[tursiops]

Gear Guy, that's a great site and an interesting document! I note, however, it is from the UK, and unfortunately US guidelines for emergency care do not always agree with those from other countries....which has implications again in terms of good Samaritan laws and responder jeopardy.