looking for a 7.62 rifle

[gunderwood]

Appleseed stresses the importance of riflemanship with iron sights at 500 yards, so I don't see why glass is necessary at all for SHTF. Personally, I'm a believer in iron sights, and every milsurp I've ever seen at a gun show/store has 'em.

Backup irons yes, but the reason for glass is the same reason virtually every military arm comes with it today...combat multiplier. Glass is easier, faster and works much better in low light.

[gunderwood]

Appleseed stresses the importance of riflemanship with iron sights at 500 yards, so I don't see why glass is necessary at all for SHTF. Personally, I'm a believer in iron sights, and every milsurp I've ever seen at a gun show/store has 'em.

Backup irons yes, but the reason for glass is the same reason virtually every military arm comes with it today...combat multiplier. Glass is easier, faster and works much better in low light.

Speaking of which, I just got two does and I'm certain I would have not been able to get the first without a scope.

I hunt with this: http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/ ... 895SBL.asp
I use Hornady's LeverRevolution 325gr FTX @ 2050fps and I put an Aimpiont T1 in the middle of the scope rail.

They have been logging on the private property I hunt, so if you hunt those areas you can actually see 150yards and a few places offer 100 yard shots. If it weren't for the logging, 50 yards would be a long shot in those woods. I saw the first deer at approx. 125 yards. Average VA doe. I swung on her when she wasn't looking my direction (I'm a good 10-15 ft up in a climbing tree stand) and then waited as she walked along until I had a clear shot. At about 100 yards she was broadside and I let a well placed shot off. A tree branch about 7 ft away explodes (bullet took it clean off, approx. 1" diameter); I thought I would clear the branch, but the scope/bore offset was misjudged. I immediately reload and track her as she is running and my second shot puts her down immediately.

While you could argue that I would have been less likely to hit the branch with irons (which it has as backup), the T1 isn't much higher than the irons as I can co-witness. With irons I don't think I would have successfully made the second shot on a quickly moving target at 100 yards. The irons obscure part of the target, which is hard enough to track when they are in a full sprint, running erratically, and partially obscured by trees/thicket. With irons I probably wouldn't have even tried, but I know am I a good enough shot to do that with the red dot.

The second doe also was aided by the use of the red dot. She would only turn broadside to me when there was some thicket between us (I could see her, but didn't want to risk a bad placed shot due to limited visibility or brush deflecting the bullet). She was grazing at 70 yards and facing me (usually an unwise shot), but I know I could hit the spine at that distance so I did. Right where I aimed it between the shoulder blades and an instant kill. With irons this would have been a much harder shot since the front post would have obscured her head and made it difficult to judge where I was at on the spine.

[Drewsifer]

I just priced my dream AR. A very reasonable $750 quickly became a rather expensive $1010. The devil is in the details.

Del-ton Inc. 20 inch. $750
Chrome Lined barrel + $45
Yankee Hill Machine 4 rail free float tube + $120
Chrome bolt and carrier + $55
ACE ARFX buttstock + $45
Total Price: $1010

And thats before optics. Ouch.

And before taxes, FFL fees and shipping! Double ouch.

I could save a little by buying a stripped lower, but not a whole lot. But I think this AR in the Sky would be a solid rifle. Your thoughts?

EDIT: Actually I could save a lot. I really don't need the chrome bolt and carrier or fancy butt stock. So with a stripped lower, chrome lined barrel, and the YHM rails, $738 if I do it myself. That's...not horrible.

[gunderwood]

I just priced my dream AR. A very reasonable $750 quickly became a rather expensive $1010. The devil is in the details.

Del-ton Inc. 20 inch. $750
Chrome Lined barrel + $45
Yankee Hill Machine 4 rail free float tube + $120
Chrome bolt and carrier + $55
ACE ARFX buttstock + $45
Total Price: $1010

And thats before optics. Ouch.

And before taxes, FFL fees and shipping! Double ouch.

I could save a little by buying a stripped lower, but not a whole lot. But I think this AR in the Sky would be a solid rifle. Your thoughts?

EDIT: Actually I could save a lot. I really don't need the chrome bolt and carrier or fancy butt stock. So with a stripped lower, chrome lined barrel, and the YHM rails, $738 if I do it myself. That's...not horrible.

I advise against the chrome carrier. IIRC, the military has specific rules saying you can't use them because they are too hard on uppers. If you are even remotely thinking about this as a SHTF gun, get the chrome lined barrel.

[Drewsifer]

I just priced my dream AR. A very reasonable $750 quickly became a rather expensive $1010. The devil is in the details.

Del-ton Inc. 20 inch. $750
Chrome Lined barrel + $45
Yankee Hill Machine 4 rail free float tube + $120
Chrome bolt and carrier + $55
ACE ARFX buttstock + $45
Total Price: $1010

And thats before optics. Ouch.

And before taxes, FFL fees and shipping! Double ouch.

I could save a little by buying a stripped lower, but not a whole lot. But I think this AR in the Sky would be a solid rifle. Your thoughts?

EDIT: Actually I could save a lot. I really don't need the chrome bolt and carrier or fancy butt stock. So with a stripped lower, chrome lined barrel, and the YHM rails, $738 if I do it myself. That's...not horrible.

I advise against the chrome carrier. IIRC, the military has specific rules saying you can't use them because they are too hard on uppers. If you are even remotely thinking about this as a SHTF gun, get the chrome lined barrel.

As if to make things worse, Del-ton Inc is having a sale tomorrow. $395 for 4 different sets, or 15% off others. That would knock the price down to $657. And I'm in no position to buy it right now

[CowboyT]

What? You're letting mundane things like food and rent get in the way of getting another gun? BLASPHEMY, SIR!



I know how you feel. I've got my eyes set on a Security-Six that I'm in no position to buy, either.

[Diomed]

And you can always get the bolt and carrier plated later if you decide you want to go that route. Some of the more exotic treatments (nickel boron, etc.) seem to be gaining fans.

[Drewsifer]

What? You're letting mundane things like food and rent get in the way of getting another gun? BLASPHEMY, SIR!



I know how you feel. I've got my eyes set on a Security-Six that I'm in no position to buy, either.

That's the worst part, I can technically afford it. It would just require moving some money around. However others things require some monetary attention, like my car needing new exhaust. But, but,

Decisions decisions.

[gunderwood]

I just priced my dream AR. A very reasonable $750 quickly became a rather expensive $1010. The devil is in the details.

Del-ton Inc. 20 inch. $750
Chrome Lined barrel + $45
Yankee Hill Machine 4 rail free float tube + $120
Chrome bolt and carrier + $55
ACE ARFX buttstock + $45
Total Price: $1010

And thats before optics. Ouch.

And before taxes, FFL fees and shipping! Double ouch.

I could save a little by buying a stripped lower, but not a whole lot. But I think this AR in the Sky would be a solid rifle. Your thoughts?

EDIT: Actually I could save a lot. I really don't need the chrome bolt and carrier or fancy butt stock. So with a stripped lower, chrome lined barrel, and the YHM rails, $738 if I do it myself. That's...not horrible.

I advise against the chrome carrier. IIRC, the military has specific rules saying you can't use them because they are too hard on uppers. If you are even remotely thinking about this as a SHTF gun, get the chrome lined barrel.

As if to make things worse, Del-ton Inc is having a sale tomorrow. $395 for 4 different sets, or 15% off others. That would knock the price down to $657. And I'm in no position to buy it right now

Brownell's is having a black rifle sale too. I didn't bother to compare them as I'm not in the market for more ARs.

[Drewsifer]

Well this Black Gun Day sales have posed an interesting questions.

A lot of places have 16" AR's going for dirt cheap. Like for instance a Bushmaster Carbon 15 Rifle .223 with Bushnell Red Dot Sight - $599.99 Pretty screaming deal to me it seems like. However I've got my heart a little set on a 20" barrel. It seems like to get the most out of a 5.56, you need speed (or velocity for the sake of technicality). 20" barrel equals better velocity, which means better performance at any range over a 16" barrel. But is it enough to insist on a 20"? I don't mind a little extra weight, and wouldn't mind having a more flexible system.

[gunderwood]

Well this Black Gun Day sales have posed an interesting questions.

A lot of places have 16" AR's going for dirt cheap. Like for instance a Bushmaster Carbon 15 Rifle .223 with Bushnell Red Dot Sight - $599.99 Pretty screaming deal to me it seems like. However I've got my heart a little set on a 20" barrel. It seems like to get the most out of a 5.56, you need speed (or velocity for the sake of technicality). 20" barrel equals better velocity, which means better performance at any range over a 16" barrel. But is it enough to insist on a 20"? I don't mind a little extra weight, and wouldn't mind having a more flexible system.

You originally were asking about a scout/SD rifle. If that is still the case, I would recommend the 16" barrel. Ammo quality, specifically bullet design is far more important than 4" of barrel.

The 20" offers approx. 200fps more than a 16", but that only translates to approx. 50 yards. I.e. after 50 yards, the bullet out of a 20" is moving at the same velocity as the 16" is at the barrel. E.g. If a 20" AR has a max effective range of 300 yards, then a 16" would be 250 yards. The only reason to get a 20" IMHO is if you are building a DMR/SPRish and plan on shooting heavy, long range .223 bullets or are building a varmint AR rig. If you want to punch paper/varmints at mid to long ranges, the 18-24" barrels are better. For everything else, the 16" is best IMHO.

[jrswanson1]

Or you could buy the 16" on sale now and get a longer barreled upper later. You're going to own at least three ARs anyway, just face that fact now. Very, very few people own just one AR.

Jim

[Drewsifer]

Well, Best Buy neatly solved this problem by having a really good deal on a TV. We've been using a hand me down for awhile, and it was an easy sale to the wife cause she wanted a new TV as well. So alas, I'll just have to wait.

[allingeneral]

Well, Best Buy neatly solved this problem by having a really good deal on a TV. We've been using a hand me down for awhile, and it was an easy sale to the wife cause she wanted a new TV as well. So alas, I'll just have to wait.

Congrats on your new TV?

Post TV porn!! ...hmmmmm....... Don't take that too literally though

[gunderwood]

Forgot to mention that the Bushmaster Carbons have a spotty reputation. I personally haven't shoot one in a while, so perhaps they have fixed them.

[Drewsifer]

Well as promised here is the TV that so callously stole away my rifle from me. It may not look like much, but it's a devious 55" Plasma screen from Panasonic. Noted for using excellent picture quality to try and lure unwitting gun owners to sit on the couch rather than go to the range. I'll have to watch this one closely.

[gunderwood]

Well as promised here is the TV that so callously stole away my rifle from me. It may not look like much, but it's a devious 55" Plasma screen from Panasonic. Noted for using excellent picture quality to try and lure unwitting gun owners to sit on the couch rather than go to the range. I'll have to watch this one closely.

Just make sure one of your guns doesn't go on a rampage and shoot that nice TV.

[tyler6971]

ok man.you want a good rifle..Make it your self..this is how ok.
# 1 you want a .223 Y because it will shoot a lot better then 7.62. a AR 15 you can add A2 rear sights that will go out 800MM.now the SKS 7.62 is good but the AR is a lot better.
#2 go to Aimsurplus.com and order all the parts to make a AR 15.
#3 order the stripped lower for 59.95 its mil spce. order the lower parts kit 59.95 rear stock 39.95, order a mil spce upper kit for 499.99.and it well run 650.00 a FFL dealer that will let you ship the lower to and be shure they dont make you spend a lot to do so.most FFl dealers ask 32.00 to 35.00.Green top ask 75.00 they are HIGH!!! after getting all the parts in you can make a good mil spce rifle for around 650.00 and look on youtube.com to down load how to build a rifle. take care