Thoughts on .32 cals?

[pete]

I'm helping my sister decide on a concealable firearm. We're thinking about a small 5-shot pocket revolver. Something safe, easy to use, and low maintenance, mainly for use when hiking and camping. She is small and doesn't have a lot of hand strength. S&W, Charter, and Tarus have a couple nice models. My concern is the recoil for the .38 special. She is a little kick-adverse and I think a .38 would be too much in these little guns (~16-19 oz.), especially if she had to use it in an emergency. So I'm thinking maybe a .327 Fed Magnum in which she could also shoot .32 H&R Magnums, .32 S&W Longs, or even the .32 S&W Shorts for plinking. We haven't had a chance to try any out yet but in the meantime I was wondering if any of you had any thoughts on this approach? Downsides? Any particular model recommendations? Thanks, Pete

[gunderwood]

You have to take it in order to give it. Recoil is not something most people know how to handle naturally. It takes lots of training to make your body ignore/handle the recoil properly. Even once you train your body for one level of recoil, going higher usually requires more training to handle it properly. Going down isn't a problem. Weapon systems are continually getting smaller and easier to use. Today a gun allows a 90lbs woman to defend her self at range and much more effectively than she could have with older systems. However, it isn't perfect.

I am not a fan of anything smaller/weaker than 380Auto for self defense. Training with full power ammo at least some of the time is a must! You can't expect to shoot powder puff loads at the range and then handle full power loads when it counts. However, any gun she is willing to carry and train sufficiently with is better than nothing.

It is important she understand the limitations of such a weapon system though. You mentioned hiking. She should understand that none of those rounds is a reasonable defense against an animal capable of attacking her. Even the most powerful common SD cartridges are barely adequate (with perfect shot placement) for most dangerous animal encounters.

A common load for .327Fed Mag is a Speer Gold Dot 115gr at 1380fps. Their .38Sp +P load is 125gr at 945fps. The short barrel .38Sp +P is 135gr at 860fps. Using a 16oz gun and 7gr of powder (powder mass is an important part of total recoil energy and I'm just approximating). Yields the following calcs (http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp):

Free recoil energy
.327Fed Mag (115gr@1380fps): 9.98ft-lbs
.38Sp +P (125gr@945fps): 6.77ft-lbs
.38Sp +P SB(135gr@860fps): 6.58ft-lbs

The .38Sp +P should have noticeably less recoil than .327FedMag. How it is perceived is entirely different though and definitely varies person to person. IMHO, none of the really small guns are truly easy to shoot and still remain effective.

[NickW]

She is small and doesn't have a lot of hand strength. S&W, Charter, and Tarus have a couple nice models. My concern is the recoil for the .38 special. She is a little kick-adverse and I think a .38 would be too much in these little guns Pete

gunderwood has given you good advice, not much to add except you said you thought a .38 would be too much for her. That leads me to think that you don't know for sure; if not, take her out and let her try an assortment of rental's at the range, you may be surprised. However, .32 never for SD and most 380's shooting SD ammo kick just as much if not more than alot of the small framed 9mm's. If she's set on a revovler and recoil is an issue than get a heavy Ruger SP101 .38 sp +P felt recoil will be less, but she will have to carry it hiking, man everything is a trade off, you just have to look at the pros and cons. One things for sure, nothing less than a .38 sp.

[ProShooter]

A .32 is just going to piss off an attacker, before he kills you.

We do not suggest carrying anything less than a .380, and even that is a "get off me" gun.

[SgtBill]

Yep, get off me or I will put another one in your head and 2 more in your chest with my little ol Walther PK-380 and Speer Gold Dot Hollow Point Ammo.

I hope you are not includeing all people from this forum in the WE statement.
Bill

[pete]

Thanks guys. We'll probably end up going with a .38 spl. Just to clarify, my concern was not so much with the .38 in general but with using it in one of those small pocket revolvers like the Charter Undercover or Ruger LCR. And Nick is right, we haven't tried any of them yet but will soon. If its not comfortable for her maybe I can convince her to do a semi-auto. Pete

[gunderwood]

+1 on the let her try them out. Ranges will let you rent and you probably can find someone who will let you try theirs out on the forum. CowboyT is probably our biggest wheel gun enthusiast if you really wanting one of those. He usually shoots at Sharpshooters in Springfield. There are also lots of people out by SEG/Ashburn.

[gunderwood]

Thanks guys. We'll probably end up going with a .38 spl. Just to clarify, my concern was not so much with the .38 in general but with using it in one of those small pocket revolvers like the Charter Undercover or Ruger LCR. And Nick is right, we haven't tried any of them yet but will soon. If its not comfortable for her maybe I can convince her to do a semi-auto. Pete

Semi-autos generally require more practice to master. You have to learn how to clear a jam, misfires, etc. Take that into consideration too.

[ProShooter]

Yep, get off me or I will put another one in your head and 2 more in your chest with my little ol Walther PK-380 and Speer Gold Dot Hollow Point Ammo.

I hope you are not includeing all people from this forum in the WE statement.
Bill

No Bill, the "we" meant my company's position on using those smaller calibers for self-defense. You were certainly not included in that statement.

[ProShooter]

Thanks guys. We'll probably end up going with a .38 spl.

The .38 is a fine choice. Just remember that many of these "airlight" framed revolvers currently made are so light in weight that the recoil feels intensified. That energy has to go somewhere and a lightweight frame allows more energy to travel to the body.

In the summer months, I carry an old school Colt Detective Special. Its a 6 shot .38 and a terrific gun. Not all .38's are created equal.

[Jim]

.....In the summer months, I carry an old school Colt Detective Special.....

That's a NICE revolver, Jim. I'm impressed!

[ProShooter]

.....In the summer months, I carry an old school Colt Detective Special.....

That's a NICE revolver, Jim. I'm impressed!

Thanks! I love it. 6 shots as opposed to the 5 most modern .38's have. Its a third generation Colt, with the shrouded ejector rod. Its a sweet gun!

[arkypete]

Once had a lady ask me what she should use a bed side table gun. She did not want to hurt the fellow, she only wanted to shoot him a little bit.
I was in one of me less tolerant moods and told her that if she was not willing to kill the person, she should just lay back and enjoy the event.

Jim

[Jim]

You ain't right, Pete!

[Jakeiscrazy]

Whatever you do DON'T get her a .357 and have her shoot .38s for practice.The extra recoil in a SD situation could definitely throw her off.

[CowboyT]

I disagree with that for two reasons.

1.) A .38 +P is fine in a SD situation, so shooting .38 +P's in it on a regular basis isn't a bad deal if that's your SD ammo, too. The BG will be just as dead from a .38 +P as he will from a full-house .357 Magnum round, and with less risk of overpenetration.

2.) Marksmanship training is important. A light, "powder-puff" .38 Spl load is very good for doing that if you don't have the extra funds to pick up a .22LR revolver of similar configuration.

My suggestion is to have her do range practice regularly, if at all possible, 3 times a week, with her SD gun, with powder-puff .38 Spl loads. This way she gets comfortable with the gun and can practice proper shooting fundamentals without the blast of hotter loads. At least once a week, she ought to practice with the more expensive SD ammo, too.

And since she's recoil-sensitive, do not give her any Magnum loads. You want her to actually enjoy shooting so that she'll want to practice. I know someone who made that mistake years ago with a recoil-sensitive woman, and she never wanted to shoot again. I had to do A LOT of persuading to get her to reconsider.

[newdovo]

My concern is the recoil for the .38 special. She is a little kick-adverse and I think a .38 would be too much in these little guns (~16-19 oz.), especially if she had to use it in an emergency.

My S&W Airweight .38 (model 642) is one of the lighter guns that you note. Recoil is a bit more with +p loads, but not unmanageable or unpleasant (for me, YMMV). As noted already, practice is important. If you do take opportunity to try some at the range, ask to try an all steel gun, like a Ruger SP-101 or S&W 640. They are a half pound or so heavier than guns with other frame materials (polymer, aluminum, unobtainium, etc), so recoil will be somewhat less. Since you're looking at concealment also, consider whether you want a gun with a hammer that is not exposed, as there's less to snag on clothing, etc.
BTW, I'm also diggin' Jim's Dick Special suggestion. They're classy.
Keep us posted on your search.

Parry

[zephyp]

A .32 is just going to piss off an attacker, before he kills you.

We do not suggest carrying anything less than a .380, and even that is a "get off me" gun.

A "get off me" gun...

I dare anyone to say that after being a "victim" of the Mozambique technique with a .380 or a .25, both of which I carry on a regular basis during the summer. Caliber is only one of the many variables required to put down an attacker. And, I put shot placement just a wee bit higher than how big the bullet is...like at the top of the list...as a matter of fact, I dont think I would even put caliber second...

[OakRidgeStars]

I dare anyone to say that after being a "victim" of the Mozambique technique ...

Haven't heard that one in a while. Around 1:58

[CCFan]

Yep, get off me or I will put another one in your head and 2 more in your chest with my little ol Walther PK-380 and Speer Gold Dot Hollow Point Ammo.

I hope you are not includeing all people from this forum in the WE statement.
Bill

And the newer Hornady Critical Defense stuff does a good job in a shorty .380 too...

Most gunfights happen at point blank range. I'd be willing to bet the .380 will look like a cannon if you're staring down the barrel of one... If you get the change to shoot an LCP - it's very little recoil compared to other .380s...

And if you really want a .32 cal - I think there's a thread around here somewhere that talks about the .327 Federal Magnum.. From what everyone says - it's big power without the .357 recoil. Still haven't shot one, so we'll see when I get around to one.