Surprise: GM's 'electric lemon' is Car of the Year

[OakRidgeStars]

Oddly, there was no award for the taxpayers who have no doubt footed the bill for this colossal failure on four wheels.

http://www.freep.com/article/20101116/B ... f-the-Year

In a related story, Neil Young's hybrid Linc/Volt caused $1.1 million in fire damage at his warehouse. If you're thinking about buying a Volt, you might want to park it on the street.

http://www.mercurynews.com/san-mateo-co ... ck_check=1

[CowboyT]

Screw the Volt. If I were in the market for an electric car, I'd hold out for the Tesla Model S. Same propulsion system as in the Roadster, so we know it works. Also, the Model S has greater range than the Volt--from 160 miles to 300 miles on a charge. Yes, I believe Tesla's claims here, because they said the Roadster could do 245 miles. They drove it to Vegas and got over 300, though they admitted that this was pushing things.

[Diomed]

In a related story, Neil Young's hybrid Linc/Volt caused $1.1 million in fire damage at his warehouse. If you're thinking about buying a Volt, you might want to park it on the street.

Is that the one he wrote a (crappy) song about? The cosmic justice would be rich if so.

[gunderwood]

Screw the Volt. If I were in the market for an electric car, I'd hold out for the Tesla Model S. Same propulsion system as in the Roadster, so we know it works. Also, the Model S has greater range than the Volt--from 160 miles to 300 miles on a charge. Yes, I believe Tesla's claims here, because they said the Roadster could do 245 miles. They drove it to Vegas and got over 300, though they admitted that this was pushing things.

The Tesla is neat, but the weight of the batteries completely destroys the handling compared to the Lotus foundation. Lightweight cars may not be monsters in a straight line, but they are crazy fun in the twistys. I would love to have a Ariel Atom! The new V8 with 500HP should make things even more crazy.

Race specification components are specified throughout the Atom V8 and reflect the extraordinary levels of performance that the car offers. With over 500bhp available the Atom V8 has a power to weight ratio in excess of 900bhp per tonne. (Ferrari Enzo 434bhp per tonne, Bugatti Veyron 530bhp per tonne, GP2 single seater 850bhp per tonne). Race car acceleration and up to 200mph for this ultimate Atom set a new level in trackday cars.

The most insane thing I've driven was a 125cc shifter cart. Mind bogglingly fast around tight tracks like autocross.

Back on topic...

The problem with electric cars is the batteries. They are heavy, they are expensive, they are hazardous (not green at all to make and dispose of) and they don't last very long. The hybrids were claiming 5 years before you had to replace a several thousand dollar battery pack, but an all electric car should be much less. Lithium ion batteries (generally they use these "laptop" batteries) need to be hermetically sealed to last more than 2-2.5 years which is expensive. Other alternatives like NiCd and NiMH are less dense and depending on the charge electronics may have memory issues. Lithium polymer is better than lithium ion, but still lacks enough energy density to make reasonably lightweight cars and can be far more picky about how you charge them.

[zephyp]

The problem with electric cars is the batteries. They are heavy, they are expensive, they are hazardous (not green at all to make and dispose of) and they don't last very long.

Et tu Brute?

[CowboyT]

Screw the Volt. If I were in the market for an electric car, I'd hold out for the Tesla Model S. Same propulsion system as in the Roadster, so we know it works. Also, the Model S has greater range than the Volt--from 160 miles to 300 miles on a charge. Yes, I believe Tesla's claims here, because they said the Roadster could do 245 miles. They drove it to Vegas and got over 300, though they admitted that this was pushing things.

The Tesla is neat, but the weight of the batteries completely destroys the handling compared to the Lotus foundation. Lightweight cars may not be monsters in a straight line, but they are crazy fun in the twistys. I would love to have a Ariel Atom! The new V8 with 500HP should make things even more crazy.

Remember that the electric motor, being much lighter than an internal combustion engine, will offset the Li-Ion battery pack and then maybe some. Also, the Model S isn't a sports car, but rather a family sedan. I'd still hold out for it (due in 2012) instead of buying a Chevy Volt.

[Yarddawg]

I am all for reducing our dependence on foreign oil, but think about it for a minute...where is the energy coming from to charge the batteries? From power plants. Those power plants may be fueled by fossil fuel (more than likely foreign oil), or by nuclear reactors.

Now, how "green" are these electric vehicles?

Wind farms are the latest "flavor of the month" for alternative energy sources. But what is the insulation of electrical wires made of? Can you say petroleum products?

The only truly green vehicles are beasts of burden. Oh wait, I forgot...the flatulence from said animals is a greenhouse gas!

Ok, I have no viable solutions!

[maljay]

I am greatly opposed to electric vehicles. Remember what happened to the price of corn and the corn shortage in some third world nations. Heck, Mexicans could not get enough corn to eat because the demand for ethanol caused the price to increase beyond what food some people could afford. Forget what they could afford, it wasn't even available because the corn farmers wanted the higher prices they could get from selling it for fuel. What will happen as more and more people drive electric cars? Let's see, more electricity demand means higher electricity prices. Someone mentioned the disposal of the batteries...huge issue but maybe they will come up with a better way for recycling...we will have to wait and see. What about the additional coal that the electric plants will need to burn to create the electricity for the ever growing fleet of elec. cars? Electric cars might be okay for large cities to cut down on smog but in the long run, they will create more problems that they cure. Why the current administration ignored hydrogen power is beyond me. Sure it will be expensive to get started but once in place, the only pollution is water coming out of the exhaust.

[OakRidgeStars]

Who's going to buy cars like the Volt?. Rich Hollywood types that want to park it in front of their mansion while they're out rolling in the Escalade or Hummer. Even with the tax credit, it's just too expensive for the average person to justify.

[gunderwood]

Screw the Volt. If I were in the market for an electric car, I'd hold out for the Tesla Model S. Same propulsion system as in the Roadster, so we know it works. Also, the Model S has greater range than the Volt--from 160 miles to 300 miles on a charge. Yes, I believe Tesla's claims here, because they said the Roadster could do 245 miles. They drove it to Vegas and got over 300, though they admitted that this was pushing things.

The Tesla is neat, but the weight of the batteries completely destroys the handling compared to the Lotus foundation. Lightweight cars may not be monsters in a straight line, but they are crazy fun in the twistys. I would love to have a Ariel Atom! The new V8 with 500HP should make things even more crazy.

Remember that the electric motor, being much lighter than an internal combustion engine, will offset the Li-Ion battery pack and then maybe some. Also, the Model S isn't a sports car, but rather a family sedan. I'd still hold out for it (due in 2012) instead of buying a Chevy Volt.

I wouldn't buy either.

No, it won't offset the batteries weight:

The body panels and chassis will be primarily aluminum, with a total weight of just over 4,000 pounds, about 1,200 pounds of that being battery mass.
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/03/26/tesl ... range-0-6/

That figure isn't quite right. The car can be fit with a 160 mile, 230 mile or 300 mile battery. The 160 mile base package (which costs approx. $57k) weights 3825lbs, the 230 is the "just over 4000lbs" (more like 4100-4200lbs), and the 300 mile is projected closer to 4600lbs.

A BMW 535i weights 4000lbs.
An Acura TL weights 3700lbs
A Lexus GS 460 weights 3800lbs
A Toyota Avalon weights 3600lbs
A Chevy Impala weights 3500lbs

All of these cars are similar in size and performance to the model S, but all easily go 300+ miles...which the S requires approx. 4600lbs to do. So no it doesn't make up for the batteries weight.

The Tesla was cool, but anyone who drove it hard noted that it messed up the handling of a perfectly good Lotus because of the weight.

[gunderwood]

I am all for reducing our dependence on foreign oil, but think about it for a minute...where is the energy coming from to charge the batteries? From power plants. Those power plants may be fueled by fossil fuel (more than likely foreign oil), or by nuclear reactors.

Most of the US electric power comes from coal plants which we have lots of here.