Can this man walk out with a handgun next month?

[YuDanJa]

This co-worker of mine has been a VA resident for about a year now, but he never got his WA state driver’s license converted to a VA license. He says he doesn’t want to because it’s still a valid license (he’s a lazy idiot).

Okay, so he pays taxes here, he is leasing an apartment, he has utility bills…all the proof he needs to prove he’s a VA resident; however, the only photo ID he has with an address on it is his WA state driver’s license, which, of course, does not have his VA address on it.

Can this person walk out of the Nation’s Gun Show with a handgun next month?

I told him my immediate thought is “no” because of the required Photo ID cannot prove the address, and I could’ve sworn it states that somewhere in the VA state police site (which I can’t seem to find right now). I think the only exception is active duty military, which he is not.

He disagrees because he has all the other documents proving he’s a Virginia resident, and if he shows the dealers multiple documents plus other photo ID’s (like a passport and Common Access Card), the dealers would let him walk out.

Thoughts?

[chfaunce]

My thought is that he needs to visit the DMV:

http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/citiz ... bility.asp

New Residents

Within 60 days of moving here, you must obtain a Virginia driver's license. However, if you hold a commercial driver's license (CDL), you must obtain a Virginia CDL within 30 days.

[jrswanson1]

Being the cheap bastage that I am, I can see his point about getting a new license. However, he really should get a VA license and get a pro-rated refund back from Washington. He can get a VA ID, if he doesn't want a license, which should work for purchasing a firearm, but it needs to be at least 30 days old by the time he purchases said firearm.

Jim

[OakRidgeStars]

My thought is that he needs to visit the DMV:

http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/citiz ... bility.asp

New Residents

Within 60 days of moving here, you must obtain a Virginia driver's license. However, if you hold a commercial driver's license (CDL), you must obtain a Virginia CDL within 30 days.

Yep. +1

[YuDanJa]

I can't agree more with everyone's comments so far...I've mentioned all these things to him, but...did I already mention that he's an idiot? lol

[user]

One assumption your friend is making that is in error. He is not driving on a valid operator's permit in Virginia. It may be valid in Washington, but not here. Once the sixty days have gone by without having gotten a Virginia permit, he has no permit in Virginia. Driving without a valid operator's permit in possession is an offense.

Here's the kicker - if he uses that permit in Virginia to establish his identity in relation to a firearms transaction, he may be guilty of a felony (fraudulent presentation of identity documentation for the purpose of acquiring a firearm is a crime both in Virginia, and in the United States; representing that the permit is valid is a representation of fact known to be false and made for the purpose that another person rely thereon - i.e., "fraud"). Yeah, I can hear him now, "But I didn't know it wasn't still good - the expiration date hasn't gone by yet!" I love it when I get clients like that. They keep insisting that things are the way they want them to be, right up to, and beyond, the time the sheriff's deputy leads them out of the courtroom by the side door.

[YuDanJa]

One assumption your friend is making that is in error. He is not driving on a valid operator's permit in Virginia. It may be valid in Washington, but not here. Once the sixty days have gone by without having gotten a Virginia permit, he has no permit in Virginia. Driving without a valid operator's permit in possession is an offense.

Yes, that is true. But, I don't think that will bother him since he doesn't own or operate a vehicle.

[Jim]

I've found that you can't tell people like this anything. They already know everything and they aren't going to listen. Just let him go. He'll find out when he tries to buy a firearm.

[YuDanJa]

I've found that you can't tell people like this anything. They already know everything and they aren't going to listen. Just let him go. He'll find out when he tries to buy a firearm.

Very true. Can you imagine what he's like at the work place? Always making excuses. Thank goodness he's not within my department. With that sort of attitude, I don't think he is even fit to own firearms.

[Diomed]

He can get a VA ID, if he doesn't want a license, which should work for purchasing a firearm, but it needs to be at least 30 days old by the time he purchases said firearm.

The VSP have been pressuring FFLs to not accept the ID cards. So he may have to do some looking to find a dealer who will do business with him.

[PackinLRdrvr]

He can get a VA ID, if he doesn't want a license, which should work for purchasing a firearm, but it needs to be at least 30 days old by the time he purchases said firearm.

Jim

You can't have an ID and a Driver's license at the same time no matter what state either or both of them are from. You also can't have a Driver's license from two different states.
I recently just had to do this moving to Virginia from Florida.

[YuDanJa]

You can't have an ID and a Driver's license at the same time no matter what state either or both of them are from. You also can't have a Driver's license from two different states.
I recently just had to do this moving to Virginia from Florida.

I'm not arguing or disagreeing; merely stating what I've witnessed:

A friend of mine with a valid HI driver's license who was temporarily residing in CA for a while was able to get a CA ID card by showing his passport and two utility bills at their DMV (came to his mailbox within a week).

Also, I knew a guy who had a NY driver's license who moved to CO. He had "misplaced" his drivers license and could not present to the CO DMV, so they made him take everything from scratch (written/driving tests). He passed the tests and got his license. Weeks later, he found his NY license. Technically, he had two "valid" (not saying it's legal) state driver's licenses.

I guess it all depends on the state? But, then...these events took place in the early to mid 90's. Maybe things have changed.

[Chasbo00]

You also can't have a Driver's license from two different states.

What law says I can't have a driver's license from two different states?

[user]

You also can't have a Driver's license from two different states.

What law says I can't have a driver's license from two different states?

That's a matter of state law, and varies, though most including Virginia follow the same rule: for voting and for driving, you can't be a resident of more than one state at a time.

Btw, as to the OP's issue, the guy with the out of state license can use that license as proof of identity, as long as he also presents evidence of residency in Virginia at the time of the purchase. For BATFE regulations, you can be a resident of more than one state, as long as you are "actually residing" in the state in which the purchase is made at the time of purchase. I live in both Virginia and West Virginia, so while I'm living in West-by-Gawd, I use my Va. OL and property tax receipts as evidence of eligibility to buy guns there.

[Chasbo00]

You also can't have a Driver's license from two different states.

What law says I can't have a driver's license from two different states?

That's a matter of state law, and varies, though most including Virginia follow the same rule: for voting and for driving, you can't be a resident of more than one state at a time.

I get the residency aspect; but, I don't think all states mandate residency as a requirement for a driver's license. For example, Florida has provisions for a non-resident state driver's license. I don't see how another state could have a law affecting that.

[ZeSpectre]

All the rest of the debate aside, I work part time in a gun shop these days and I absolutely would NOT complete a transaction with that "identification".

[novaglock]

Years ago, when I moved to Virginia, I too neglected to change my license and re-register my car. It wasn't a year but it was beyond the 60 days when I was pulled over. I hadn't done anything, just got pulled over because I had out of state tags. Bottom line, I had to pay a fine, prove I had changed my license and registration, and take a morning off to appear in court because I couldn't just pay the fine by mail. So aside from any other issues it could be a big hassle. As far as state of residence is concerned it might come down to if or where he pays state taxes. And I would have to go with ZeSpectre... With firearms regs what they are, and the consequences to the licensee, I would imagine absolute proof of residency would be top priority.

[jrswanson1]

He can get a VA ID, if he doesn't want a license, which should work for purchasing a firearm, but it needs to be at least 30 days old by the time he purchases said firearm.

The VSP have been pressuring FFLs to not accept the ID cards. So he may have to do some looking to find a dealer who will do business with him.

What's up with that? It's a valid, government issued ID with picture and address. For those who don't drive for whatever reason, what else are they going to do? That's crap.

Jim

[chfaunce]

What's up with that? It's a valid, government issued ID with picture and address. For those who don't drive for whatever reason, what else are they going to do? That's crap.

Jim

No kidding. It's proof of residency. I wasn't aware that being permitted to operate a motor vehicle in VA was a prerequisite to firearm ownership.

Citation from a VSP source, please?

[YuDanJa]

Btw, as to the OP's issue, the guy with the out of state license can use that license as proof of identity, as long as he also presents evidence of residency in Virginia at the time of the purchase. For BATFE regulations, you can be a resident of more than one state, as long as you are "actually residing" in the state in which the purchase is made at the time of purchase. I live in both Virginia and West Virginia, so while I'm living in West-by-Gawd, I use my Va. OL and property tax receipts as evidence of eligibility to buy guns there.

So, there actually is a good chance my co-worker can walk out of there with a handgun? I think his documents can prove his is residing in VA. He'll have his apartment lease agreement and utility bills. I'm glad I didn't place any bets with this co-worker.

Anyway, I'm beginning to think these discussions about these minor details on the requirements to purchase a handgun could all be negligible...and ultimately up to the dealers' judgment. I think back to all the gun-buying experiences of mine and others, and I can think of two specific purchases that weren't within the letter of the law.

1. I do remember having a handgun transferred through a private FFL within 60 days of the date I was issued a VA driver’s license. I had no clue there was the requirement the Drivers License had to be at least 60 days old...but, I was able to walk out with the gun. I’m looking at my receipt and the date my driver’s license was issued…only 49 days.

2. Last year, my buddy and I purchased handguns from the Nation's Gun Show. My buddy presented his VA drivers license and his second form of ID was a Wisconsin-issued Concealed Handgun permit, which, obviously had a different address. The dealer asked if he had any other form if ID. My buddy said “no”, so the dealer asked his fellow dealers. A short while later, he came back and said, “You’re good” and proceeded to do the background check. My buddy walked out with the handgun.

Bottom line…now I think it is possible that this co-worker of mine may get rejected by one dealer at the show, but accepted by another at another table.