School trip to Mosque ends with prayer to Allah

[gunderwood]

Hey Thanks, I'm collecting cute pictures of cats and kittens. How did you know?

What TheGodFather was trying to express is that the God of the Bible was very particular as to His name which is in direct contradiction to your shooting buddy/opinion. The god you choose to worship may not care, but TheGodFather's does.

There are numerous examples and generally translations lose much of the meaning, so it is easy to miss unless you go back to the original language. For example:

4Then Jesus, knowing all that would happen to him, came forward and said to them, "Whom do you seek?" 5They answered him, "Jesus of Nazareth." Jesus said to them, "I am he."[a] Judas, who betrayed him, was standing with them. 6 When Jesus said to them, "I am he," they drew back and fell to the ground. 7So he asked them again, (D) "Whom do you seek?" And they said, "Jesus of Nazareth." 8Jesus answered, "I told you that I am he. So, if you seek me, let these men go."

Isn't that odd? Falling to the ground because he answered a question? It is if you only understand the English translation. The answer "I am" is not merely providing information, but actually was invoking the highest name of God...I am that I am is the more common English phrase. In short, when they said they were after Jesus, He replied that He was God. Hence the reaction.

The Bible is full of such examples. The God of the Bible takes His name very seriously and does not answer to other names. For example:

At this point Elijah proposes a direct test of the powers of Baal and Yahweh. The people of Israel, 450 prophets of Baal, and 400 prophets of Asherah are summoned to Mount Carmel. Two altars are built, one for Baal and one for Yahweh. Wood is laid on the altars. Two oxen are slaughtered and cut into pieces; the pieces are laid on the wood. Elijah then invites the priests of Baal to pray for fire to light the sacrifice. They pray from morning to noon without success. Elijah ridicules their efforts. They respond by cutting themselves and adding their own blood to the sacrifice (such mutilation of the body was strictly forbidden in the Mosaic law). They continue praying until evening without success.

Elijah now orders that the altar of the Yahweh be drenched with water from "four large jars" poured three times (1 Kings 18:33-34). He asks God to accept the sacrifice. Fire falls from the sky, igniting the sacrifice. Elijah seizes the moment and orders the death of the prophets of Baal. Elijah prays earnestly for rain to fall again on the land. Then the rains begin, signaling the end of the famine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elijah

In this passage it was made perfectly clear that the God of the Bible would not answer to a different name and that Baal is not Yahweh.

[arkypete]

I never was in a disagreement, least not to my thinking.
Have I been wrong all these years when I said the 'Lord's Prayer' "Our Father who art in Heaven"
Should I have been saying "Our Jesus ...."?

Seem's to me I ran into a situation similar to Jonathan (sp) Swift's war where they were fighting over which end of the hard boiled egg to crack open.

Cordially

Jim

[gunderwood]

I never was in a disagreement, least not to my thinking.
Have I been wrong all these years when I said the 'Lord's Prayer' "Our Father who art in Heaven"
Should I have been saying "Our Jesus ...."?

Seem's to me I ran into a situation similar to Jonathan (sp) Swift's war where they were fighting over which end of the hard boiled egg to crack open.

Cordially

Jim

You conveniently left out the next part of the prayer, hallowed (holy) be Thy name. This is in keeping with the Biblical idea presented in my previous post.

More importantly, "Father" represents a relationship, not a name. Yes, it is capitalized which is in keeping with tradition. The same is done to "Thy" (sometimes "Your") name. Don't forget things like pronouns like "He." In all of these cases, one of the names of God is not being invoked, but rather a non-specific descriptor which is capitalized because of tradition.

Using "Father" to mean anything you want it to mean is taking the Lord's Prayer out of context. Just because a generic descriptor was used occasionally doesn't negate the rest of the Bible's teaching concerning the name of God or who He is. The Bible is quite clear that there is only one God, who He is and who He is not and that the only way to be saved is through Him.

I am sorry if this offends you, but it needed to be said.

[arkypete]

Ohhh Kay
On to other vital thnings
Do you crack the sharp end or the round end of the egg.

Jim

[gunderwood]

Ohhh Kay
On to other vital thnings
Do you crack the sharp end or the round end of the egg.

Jim

There is no need to be patronizing. We argue fiercely at times (which people of principle and conviction are bound to do), but generally have no problem putting aside our differences for a shoot and greet, etc. We don't have to agree, but as long as one of us it not trying to use government to shove their opinion down the others throat, we can be friends. Isn't that great?

A quick tangent. I would suggest that is why many people on this site are so angry about politics at the moment. It isn't a we disagree so I'll do things my way and you do them your way, but rather we are being forced to do them their way (at the barrel of a gun I might add). This is particularly why our system, where the federal government had little power and the states have more, was so brilliant. 50 little independent social experiments with common external defense/representation. If you don't like CA's gun laws, move somewhere else. When the federal government makes such a law, where do you go?

Back on topic. A person who prays to a different god than is found in the Koran isn't a Muslim. A person who prays to a different God than that of the Bible isn't a Christian. Etc. The question was not the goodness or correctness of the Christian view, but rather if some religions, in this specific case Christianity, allowed for what you said. Some do, some don't.

The reason for the stiff opposition is: If the Bible is true, the consequences of praying to another god are very bad. This is wholly unlike your egg which at worst is a wasted egg. An egg and the human soul are not equivalent. Again, please argue with force and conviction, but keep it civil and don't patronize.

[chfaunce]

An egg is only a wasted egg if there is no bacon to go with the egg.

[Taggure]

[chfaunce]

This site desperately needs an I Heart Bacon Porn emoticon.

[Palladin]

Be still my thumping heart!....

I loves me some BACON! It's the best evar. If everyone in the world had a little bacon for breakfast at least once a week, we would all get along a lot better...

[Taggure]

This site desperately needs an I Heart Bacon Porn emoticon.

Here is the icon for it

the BA-K-47, a 1:1 scale AK-47 made out of bacon. It took a total of eight hours to create, a lot of bacon, and a blowtorch… oh yeah, and our good friend beer helped too.

[gunderwood]

And I thought the AR was kind of accessories...

[gunderwood]

er, king not kind

[chfaunce]

Be still my thumping heart!....

I loves me some BACON! It's the best evar. If everyone in the world had a little bacon for breakfast at least once a week, we would all get along a lot better...

Yeah, I'm pretty much convinced why all of those people over in the Middle East are so pi$$ed off all the time. I mean, if I weren't allowed to eat bacon, I'd probably want to blow myself up, too.

[arkypete]

Ohhh Kay
On to other vital thnings
Do you crack the sharp end or the round end of the egg.

Jim

There is no need to be patronizing. We argue fiercely at times (which people of principle and conviction are bound to do), but generally have no problem putting aside our differences for a shoot and greet, etc. We don't have to agree, but as long as one of us it not trying to use government to shove their opinion down the others throat, we can be friends. Isn't that great?

I'm for firing 50% of the government civil servants excepting the military. Then go back to the original constitution and eliminate all depts that are not enumerated. Think of it as cutting off one leg at each end of a rhino.

A quick tangent. I would suggest that is why many people on this site are so angry about politics at the moment. It isn't a we disagree so I'll do things my way and you do them your way, but rather we are being forced to do them their way (at the barrel of a gun I might add). This is particularly why our system, where the federal government had little power and the states have more, was so brilliant. 50 little independent social experiments with common external defense/representation. If you don't like CA's gun laws, move somewhere else. When the federal government makes such a law, where do you go?

Back on topic. A person who prays to a different god than is found in the Koran isn't a Muslim. A person who prays to a different God than that of the Bible isn't a Christian. Etc. The question was not the goodness or correctness of the Christian view, but rather if some religions, in this specific case Christianity, allowed for what you said. Some do, some don't.

My thought on the matter of prayer is, in my experience, God likes to hear from me, we can discuss things and he gives me the guidance I seek. God has never asked me what religion I am. God has never refused to give me guidance if I'm standing, kneeling, setting or laying down when I pray. God has protected me thru 63 years and when I paid attention and listened to his guidance I've been successful in all aspects of my life. Any problems I've had in life are the result of my own bull headedness.

The reason for the stiff opposition is: If the Bible is true, the consequences of praying to another god are very bad. This is wholly unlike your egg which at worst is a wasted egg. An egg and the human soul are not equivalent. Again, please argue with force and conviction, but keep it civil and don't patronize.

The reason my friend uses George rather then God is he doesn't know the word for God in Spanish or German or French or Polish..You get my point
I some how doubt that God, who can read a man's heart, cares what the man calls God as long as the man is calling to God.

I suspect that I was patronizing and for that I'm sorry. God and I are working on my shortage patience... You know ,God grant me the patience to.....And I want it now!

Jim

[Palladin]

Hmmm.... always being one to try keep it simple, I see it like this...

Christian = Believer in the Holy Trinity
Holy Trinity = The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit
The Son = Jesus Christ, of Nazareth

And...

NamesofChristNames-of-Christ-Posters (2).jpg (37 KiB) Viewed 3755 times

And in my blessed ignorance, I believe. And in believing, I know that when I call Him, He hears me.

[allingeneral]

Ohhh Kay
On to other vital thnings
Do you crack the sharp end or the round end of the egg.

Jim

Who cracks the *end* of an egg? You should crack it on the side! (pointy end up, of course!)

[VBshooter]

Wouldn't the other side be up instead of an end????

[allingeneral]

Wouldn't the other side be up instead of an end????

Believe it or not, I can't find a decent picture on google that will outline my approach to "Crack on the side with the pointy end up". Think about cracking it sideways on the rim of a glass bowl.

But I digress...

Regardless of the name that any religion uses to refer to God - the fact of the matter remains that a school has absolutely no business introducing children to a religion - even if they try to be "Equal opportunity" about it. If I find out about my local public school taking any of my kids on a field trip to a mosque, there will be problems.

[zephyp]

the BA-K-47, a 1:1 scale AK-47 made out of bacon. It took a total of eight hours to create, a lot of bacon, and a blowtorch… oh yeah, and our good friend beer helped too.

Beer! Is there anything it cant do...

@Spence...so true my friend. And that is precisely the point. AFAIC the only field trip where this would be appropriate would originate somewhere in the middle east...

[VBshooter]

Yes Sir,,, Back when I was in school and I;m sure for a lot of folks here,field trips were for good stuff that we could learn by and actually make use of.. Parks,Museums, Colonial Villages, Worlds Fairs, plays, war memorials and other useful things..... IMHO I see no benefit whatsoever exposing these students to this religous cavalcade on the publics dime. Religion is taught in the home not in the schools. The administrators of this school system need to rethink their priorities and remember where the hell they are,,, This is America,,Not freaking Mecca ....