Blue Ridge hillbilly

[jtrider]

With the low standards for membership, I was able to sneak into the clubhouse here. I live out in the Blue Ridge Mountains. The part that has indoor plumbing, 'lectricity and a few c'mputers. I have a keen interest in rights, particularly my own. I am here to learn what those rights are in specifics, how I can enjoy them, and how I might demand those rights be respected when some JBT decides I don't have any.

I like respectful debate and, while not real good at it, I find I spend a lot of time researching supporting material which in turn removes a lot of my ignorance. I have no concerns of running out of that particular commodity anytime soon.

I'm also interested in self defense. I just renewed my CC permit for Virginia. I have not engaged in OC outside of private settings or among like minded folks. I'm still up in the air about that whole concept. I don't seem to get past the term "provocative" when I see someone carrying in an "in-your-face" manner. I lean towards discrete. I am aware that OC is a right. So are bowel movements [Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness]. I carry for the same reason I have bowel movements...more out of necessity than an attempt to make a statement. Both actions I find to be rather personal, and I'd druther you just suspect I do both. The presentation of evidence of either shouldn't be required. Maybe I'll change my mind about one or the other. Or both.

[t33j]

Welcome

You should have made your username Blue Ridge Hillbilly

Of what, exactly do you see OC provoking?

[gunderwood]

[allingeneral]

Welcome aboard jtrider. Nice introduction. Glad to have you here.

I understand exactly what you mean about OC and "in your face". There are a lot of people out there who have a very real fear of guns, and seeing people OC in Wal-mart gets some people's hackles up. It seems maybe you're the type of guy who doesn't want to raise anyone's hackles by OC'ing just to prove a point (that you can) - and I can respect that.

However, the taboo that exists surrounding firearms will never be lifted if we can't prove to people (those who are afraid of guns) that law-abiding people carry guns for good reasons, and that "Guns aren't Bad - People are".

So, welcome aboard - and join in the discussion!

[jtrider]

Thanks for the welcome.

Provocative, to me, has more to do with "how" it is carried, than "that' it is carried.

I am less concerned about uncomfortable citizens than I am about the reactions of ill trained cops responding to "Man With A Gun".

Little could create more damage to the acceptance of open carry than a radical response from the law. When a citizen is unsure of the firearm they see being displayed as being kosher, they might call the law. And when the law shows up, and the Subject with the weapon is carted into the parking lot, tased, cuffed and stuffed into a squad car, and disappears into the night, a message has been confirmed in the minds of the onlookers.

When the neighborhood Doofus feels that @ 2:00 AM, the customer's of the local Denny's must be given a civics lesson regarding open carry in Virginia, I see it as provocative. MWAG will be investigated. Cops don't like to be embarrassed. Are you familiar with the term "Contempt of Cop"? I have no interest in bullet wounds, fatal or otherwise, pepper spray, taser burns, long rides in police cars, concussions, things that will last a lifetime to be followed up with "charges dismissed". Provocative display of a weapon could bring these things about. Little is heard about this type of police reaction, because typically, the charges are dismissed. I could eat the bandwidth of this forum with documented police interactions with citizens who "believed they were practicing their Constitutional Rights". Time, place and method all contribute to the acceptance the public and law enforcement will have. I would prefer to experience a level of acceptance due to non-radical presentation over what may result from a forced, in-your-face presentation, thank you.

[Oldtimer]

to the forum

[t33j]

Well, at least in Virginia it seems your concern about LEOs is unwarranted for the most part...

I know of two occurances (Danbus and Szymecki) similar to the hypothetical you describe, both in Norfolk. Both victims of the police harrassment walked away with thousands of dollars in compensation. All reports on open carry in Norfolk since, have been nothing worth noting - nobody running for the exits screaming, nobody interacting with police because of calls from other citizens... just like everywhere else in the state. It appears the Norfolk PD has finally learned its lesson.

The vast majority of the time, OCers are not out looking for trouble. They're just people going about their lives. Ocassionally group OC events get put together with the intent of educating the curious public, which always turn out well. Even less often, when problems come up some will go out of their way to expose and correct an overbearing police department or a local government. That *is* provocation, but it is not the sort you describe, and it is done to affect the sort of change that occured in Norfolk. Nobody is going to try to force any civics lessons down your throat unless you approach them.

[zephyp]

With the low standards for membership, I was able to sneak into the clubhouse here.

Hey, jt, welcome. They let me in too... If I can get in - anyone can...hope you decide to stay a while. Most of us are indeed interested in preserving our rights....and hope to see them hang around too for a long while...dk

[fireman836]

from the eastern Shore

[jtrider]

Well, at least in Virginia it seems your concern about LEOs is unwarranted for the most part...

If it's all the same to you, I'll use my own judgments and internal beliefs regarding law enforcement. "Unwarranted" is highly subjective, based on each of our locations and experiences, and officers / departments involved.

I know of two occurances (Danbus and Szymecki) similar to the hypothetical you describe, both in Norfolk. Both victims of the police harrassment walked away with thousands of dollars in compensation. All reports on open carry in Norfolk since, have been nothing worth noting - nobody running for the exits screaming, nobody interacting with police because of calls from other citizens... just like everywhere else in the state. It appears the Norfolk PD has finally learned its lesson.

The vast majority of the time, OCers are not out looking for trouble. They're just people going about their lives. Ocassionally group OC events get put together with the intent of educating the curious public, which always turn out well. Even less often, when problems come up some will go out of their way to expose and correct an overbearing police department or a local government. That *is* provocation, but it is not the sort you describe, and it is done to affect the sort of change that occured in Norfolk. Nobody is going to try to force any civics lessons down your throat unless you approach them.

[UDT]

to VGOF.

[OakRidgeStars]

Welcome to VGOF, Blue Ridge Hillbilly

[Hiwaytahell]

That has to be the best intro i dun ever seen... jt.

[Taggure]

to VGOF

[acguy45]

[Eutaw]

jtrider

There was a debate here on the forum a couple weeks ago about an OC incident in Tennessee. Give me a minute and I'll look it up so you can take a look.

[t33j]

If it's all the same to you, I'll use my own judgments and internal beliefs regarding law enforcement. "Unwarranted" is highly subjective, based on each of our locations and experiences, and officers / departments involved.

Fair enough. If you're having local problems, I'm sure the VCDL, or someone would be willing to help.

[Eutaw]

http://vagunforum.net/general-discussio ... t5645.html

There you go.

[SgtBill]

Welcome to the board.
Bill

[WVUMAH]

I was once told,Opinions are like buttholes-Everybody has one. I am proud to be an OCer and i can assure you i wont hold hard fillings about yours . Welcome to forum