Thank's to y"all

[SgtBill]

Sharon and my son Bill Jr. along with myself would like to thank everyone that came to the shoot and greet this past weekend. I hope everyone enjoyed themselfs and did not get too much sunburn. The heat was the only problem that I saw the whole weekend, but we have no control over that, sorry. If anyone can come up with another idea for something that can be done next year if we put one together again please feel free to post it so we know.

For those of you that were able to put something into the donation can, thank you. We were able to pay for both the chicken and the potty's with the donations.We were not looking to make any profit from this get together and we did not. But we were lucky enough with all that was turned in to break even. We did get rich with all the people that we meet over the 48 hr. period. If anyone get's down this way and want's to do some shooting just give me a call at 736-9013.
Sharon & Bill Hurley

P.S. Gunderwood, you ain't so bad. LOL
Bill

[firstcavapache64]

Bill your thanks are not necessary, it is us that owe you thanks. Your generous use of your homestead allowed for a great weekend. My son got to fulfill two of his highest gun wishlist items. He got to bumpfire my Bushmaster AR15 for 3 magazines thanks to tweaker aka Mike for the instruction and he got to fire 4 rounds of .50 BMG thanks to gunderwood aka Garret. He will waste a whole day at school today bragging to his buddies about shooting that .50 cal. Bill, you also made my Glock act like a Glock should. I will be working with the new trigger to get used to it and with the instructions you gave me to tighten up my shot placement. We hope to make it down later in the year to work with you again to help Theresa on her handgun shooting. Thanks again to you and your family for hosting, we had a great time.

[gunderwood]

Bill,

Thank you. I appreciate you dragging out the steel for the fifty, I know several people really enjoyed blasting holes in it, myself included.

We got to get you some AR500 steel targets. Those cratered targets with jackets going every which way and occasionally hitting people makes me nervous. Good steel targets that don't bend or crater don't throw jackets back at you...unless you shoot them AP.

You're all right in my book too. I have lots of LE and military buddies whom I shoot with. No problem with them at all. The problem is when I get pulled over or someone comes knocking on my door to investigate a crime against the state. At that point, I can't be buddy buddy with the LEO because they represent the state and the state is out for bodies. Personally as friends, I've got no problems.

[Tweaker]

Yea, those steel targets were scary. T33j got a bloody leg, I personally got hit almost 10 times for scrapnel and my truck hood has a 1 inch gash from parking 150 feet back!

[Jakeiscrazy]

Thank you Bill, for hosting it. It was a blast. Had a lot of fun shooting and meeting great people. Thanks again to Gunderwood for bringing the .50, that was awesome. Looking forward to next year already!

[OakRidgeStars]

Thanks to Bill, Sharon and Bill Jr for your hospitality. I enjoyed meeting everyone and I'm definitely looking forward to the next get together.

[punchie]

After anticipating this event since its inception, I wasn't able to make it. Saturday was my birthday (I am now an offical old fart) and you don't know how much I had looked forward to the camradarie (sp) of you fine people. Some health issues popped up that had to be taken care of before they led into something more serious. I missed this one but, fair warning, I don't intend to miss another.

[KaosDad]

The heat (no - my being totally out of any shape) killed me. However, I do bear a scar of honor from the pistol range. Sgt. Bill ( and, no, I will not stop that), thank you for your hospitality. The ONLY suggestion I can make is... April, or early may for the event.

You have an amazing home. Your family is the picture of hospitality. God Bless You All!!!!

[zephyp]

Bill, Sharon, and Bill Jr,

Tough to find the right words to say to folks like you. You are the best. Thanks for everything. We had a wonderful time and look forward to seeing you all again...dk and Young

[t33j]

Yea, those steel targets were scary. T33j got a bloody leg, I personally got hit almost 10 times for scrapnel and my truck hood has a 1 inch gash from parking 150 feet back!

Thanks again Bill, Bill, and Sharon!

Despite my leg, I had a blast shooting those steel targets!

Warning: Bloody leg photo
http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae14 ... G_9857.jpg
No complaints here, I'd do it again. This was probably my fault anyway.

[zephyp]

Hey, thats not so bad. I have a couple worse than that from the bugs...

[SgtBill]

Yea, those steel targets were scary. T33j got a bloody leg, I personally got hit almost 10 times for scrapnel and my truck hood has a 1 inch gash from parking 150 feet back!

Thanks again Bill, Bill, and Sharon!

Despite my leg, I had a blast shooting those steel targets!

Warning: Bloody leg photo
http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae14 ... G_9857.jpg
No complaints here, I'd do it again. This was probably my fault anyway.

Hell son , I have cut myself worse then that shaveing. LOL
Sorry for the cut on the leg. How far were you from the targets. Next year I may have to take them down to prevent such things from happening.
Bill

[Tweaker]

I got all my splashback from the 15 yard line. Really small stuff, but consistantly.


Bill, after talking with you this weekend, and having just recently watched a Reagan documentary, I see some similarities in both of your attitudes.

You recognize the neccessity in standing up to evil, and your tecniques are related. One must both possess the means to defend oneself and also convince the aggressor of your willingness to employ them.

This worked to avoid violence in both the Cold War and most of your encounters. In Reagan's case it demonstrated his love for country, and in yours for those you are charged with keeping safe.

Glad you are on our side, and thank you for your service!

[gunderwood]

Another option Bill, is for everyone to bring a AR500 steel target to shoot. These are about as good as it gets:

https://www.saluteproducts.com/index.php

Any chance your metal shop guy can water cut some AR500 or AR550 for cheaper?

There are lots of others too and these aren't perfect. They are wonderful because all of their steel is AR500 and their stands are modular. Their only flaw, IMO, is that they are laser cut. Laser cutting heats the steel and weakens the edge. The steel target I have now was laser cut and there are a few chips at the edges. What you want is good AR500 steel and nothing less. My opinion, but things like AR400 and mild steels don't cut it (any other than ARXXX ratings is BS marketing and should be ignored). Here's why:

When the steel is flat and the bullet impacts it perpendicular, the bullet splatter spreads in a 360 degree plane mostly parallel (large angled cone to be precise) to the target. None of the splatter directly returns to the shooter. The assumption here is that there are no bolts or other things on the target face. I.e. the target face must be perfectly flat. Here is an example of not doing that: http://www.mgmtargets.com/

See the splatter can hit the bolts and go anywhere. The problem with cratered steel is that the bullet energy is radiated outwards, just like the flat AR500 steel, but it is done so in a crater which directs the splatter at a much steeper angle. This is the reason you want good AR500 steel. Unless you shoot it with AP or with a high powered rifle at close ranges (here the thickness matters, rule of thumb: .223 and such needs approx 3/8", .308 needs 1/2", 338 needs 5/8-3/4" and 50 needs 3/4-1").

The required thickness also depends on the angle the bullet hits the steel. Just like armouring a tank or other vehicle, angles matter. This is particularly true with shooting steel targets under 30 yards or so. Those Salute target holders hold the steel at an angle so the splatter is not uniformly dispersed in a radial pattern (which if you can follow would mean jackets fall on you from the air with a vertical plate), but rather directs nearly all of the splatter into the ground.

I'm planning on getting a lot more steel as soon as I can, but good steel isn't cheap. The trade off is that it lasts forever if you take care of it. If everyone brought a target to these SnM, than it wouldn't be a problem. Just a suggestion.

[gunderwood]

Bill,

I wasn't picking on your stuff, just a statement of fact. I was nervous about the splatter and only because of the cratered steel. Most of the jackets were small, but they didn't have to be.

I've done things that have made other people nervous too. E.g. I tried wooden block shooting (like clays, but with wooden blocks and a .22lr). I'd already done the math, played with ballistic calcs and know that no matter what angle I shot a .22lr at it could not clear the mountain we were using as a backstop.

Let me tell you that is hard to hit a moving target only 2" cubed with a .22lr/iron sights. Started to get the hang of it before we got yelled at and had to stop. Old guy who only hunted and shot at short range. Couldn't believe that a .22lr could not clear a 1 mile deep, 1500ft mountain. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

Never heard of this sport? Read this and be amazed! http://www.mouseguns.com/blast/top.htm

[gunderwood]

Here is the current brand of target I have:

http://www.lvsteeltargets.com/main.htm

[SgtBill]

Hey Garret there is some great stuff here, thank you. I do believe I will tyrash the steel plate's that are all chewed up and put up some more of the 8X8 plates that are stainless steel. These type of plates seem to take a lot more abuse without any damage as shown by hitting them with the .460 S & W Magnum without damage. My buddy Young brought me some more steel plate on Saturday so that I can replace the one's that are real bad. I have to admit that the plates got more of a workout on Saturday then they have ever had over the year's.

Again thank's for the info.
Bill

[allingeneral]

I think it might help if you could figure out a way to angle them slightly so that they aren't standing perpendicular to the angle of fire and could deflect splatter more in a downward direction. Maybe like a 10 degree lean --> \

But, then - I'm no ballistics expert, so this thought may be just another one of my stupid ideas

[SgtBill]

No, it is not a stupid idea Rick, I just can't figure out how to angle them so that the spatter would go down into the ground. If you can come up with an idea let me know.
Bill

[gunderwood]

I think it might help if you could figure out a way to angle them slightly so that they aren't standing perpendicular to the angle of fire and could deflect splatter more in a downward direction. Maybe like a 10 degree lean --> \

But, then - I'm no ballistics expert, so this thought may be just another one of my stupid ideas

The best steel targets do just that, but at 30 degrees forward lean. It helps with splatter (if the steel isn't cratered), but really helps the target survive 5.56 at close range. Anything that moves helps a lot too.

I do not know what it would do with steel that is too soft and craters. It may make it worse, so use it at your own risk!

No, it is not a stupid idea Rick, I just can't figure out how to angle them so that the spatter would go down into the ground. If you can come up with an idea let me know.

The designs that I have seen which do this simply get some square tubing, wield it to the back and drill a hole through the back of the square tubing. Insert the S hook into the hole you drilled in the square tubing. This creates a small lever arm (have to get the right size of steel square tube for your steel) and it hangs forward.

Alternatively, you can achieve something similar (and reusable) if you attach the steel plate to the square tube with a carriage bolt. These guys sell cheap AR500 steel and you can build your own stand/hanger. All you have to do is attach it with a bolt.

Edit: I know AR500 targets seem really expensive, but a 4x8' sheet of 3/8" (or was it 1/2"?) was nearly $1k.