Richmond Police Department armament

[Unkn0wN]

Yeah, I don't know either, that's why I said I was assuming. I just seen in the video his body reaction with the first couple of shots, so I was assuming that's what they were doing.

I do not have the experience as you do, I was just trying to come up with a logical answer and ease the tension around here...

[rromeo]

The only problem with Patrol Rifle's in most Dept's are that they are stored in the trunk and you have to be able to get to them]

out here, California Highway Patrol has an AR-15 in every car. It is mounted in the center console right next to the Remington 870.

[Iqentab308]

All of those people that have ever been in a face to face shoot out please raise their right hand. Just as I thought.

I don't have a right hand, I had a little accident with a great sword. XD

I agree with you here that it might be a little bit difficult to hit a target when you're scared crapless by a dude carrying a gun towards you aggressively...

However, maybe RPD might decide to arm patrol officers with tactical pump shotguns now. I feel that in an urban environment, patrol police should have shotguns loaded with buckshot, as the penetration is a lot lower, and the risk of harming civilians is lower because of that. Also, you wouldn't have a problem with misses anymore.

I lived in Calgary, Alberta for a while, and both the municipal police and the RCMP carried a shotgun per officer on a rack mounted on the wall separating the police and criminal sections of the car. (so behind the front seats, easily accessible.)

Shotguns are so useful in police applications, I don't know why they aren't as widely used... =(

[RocKor]

However, maybe RPD might decide to arm patrol officers with tactical pump shotguns now. I feel that in an urban environment, patrol police should have shotguns loaded with buckshot, as the penetration is a lot lower, and the risk of harming civilians is lower because of that. Also, you wouldn't have a problem with misses anymore.

1. It is even more imperative to aim with a shotgun, as more projectiles per shot are being expelled. It's much more of a liability in a crowded or residential environment. It is not a spray and pray weapon as most would have you believe. Spreading pattern does not mean miss-proof.

2. Over-penetration is not a terrible issue with a 5.56mm carbine, as 5.56mm will not penetrate most walls but 9mm will (hard to believe, I know!) And if over-penetration IS a concern, then just get a 9mm or 5.7mm caliber carbine or subgun and call it a day.

3. And IMHO the three reasons an officer should move up from the sidearm to a weapon in his or her patrol car are 1) range 2) precision or 3) firepower. The shotgun covers firepower but not range or precision. Rifles should be issued to give officers more options.

That being said a patrol rifle should complement and not replace the patrol shotgun.Other than cost, I see no good reason to avoid it.

[Diomed]

Other than cost, I see no good reason to avoid it.

Considering the federal government is still giving away M16s for about the cost of shipping, that's not much of a hindrance if they're being honest about it.

[RocKor]

Other than cost, I see no good reason to avoid it.

Considering the federal government is still giving away M16s for about the cost of shipping, that's not much of a hindrance if they're being honest about it.

That's true I forgot about that. And honestly you can have those M16s cut down into semi-auto only carbines by any decent gunsmith and I'm sure the cost of that shipping plus the work done would still be less than a "new" rifle.

Looks like they don't have any excuse other than stubborness.

[wight]

Look at the video during the gun fight it looks like one of the cops behind the car got so spooked that he shot out the back window of his own patrol car

[wylde007]

Dude, you are absolutely right. The suspect's hand is still by his side when that window gets shot out.

Pretty p***-poor "marksmanship", if you want to call it that. There's your "thin blue line", like it or not.

[GS78]

I just Love it when the Monday Morning Quarterback's put their 2 cent's into something. All of those people that have ever been in a face to face shoot out please raise their right hand. Just as I thought.
Bill

Hold the phone bill, I raise my hand, and I will say I did not watch this video, I cannot. I agree, there are always monday morning quaterbacks, and it always the same. Like some hollywood movie outcome. I don't know if these guys need more training, (it sounds like they do) but if you have never had to pull the trigger up close and personal, you just will never understand. I understand.

[LarryW]

As it turns out only the perp was hit and he survived for trial. A good thing. OTOH, if a LEO is forced to use deadly force (as it appears these officers were) isn't the object to hit COM and drop the target? Perhaps use of the std issue 870 with a better suited round is the answer. Maybe loadout the 12ga 870 with rifled slugs. (400+gr @ 1700+ fps = 12ga 870 Express with 3" rifled slugs.) Just a thought.

BTW, IMHO the CA LEOs are prudent to carry long guns in the stack inside the vehicle instead of the trunk. Have seen CHP vehicles with 870s next to M14s inside the vehicle, and that did not seem overkill given the threat environment.

[SgtBill]

I just Love it when the Monday Morning Quarterback's put their 2 cent's into something. All of those people that have ever been in a face to face shoot out please raise their right hand. Just as I thought.
Bill

Hold the phone bill, I raise my hand, and I will say I did not watch this video, I cannot. I agree, there are always monday morning quaterbacks, and it always the same. Like some hollywood movie outcome. I don't know if these guys need more training, (it sounds like they do) but if you have never had to pull the trigger up close and personal, you just will never understand. I understand.

Yes, and we are a couple of the few that have been in that type of situation and lived.
Bill